If you attend a convention, look for these guys if you want to try some small press games. Games like Dungeon World, Monsterhearts, Fiasco, Marvel. I was at GenCon and I ran several sessions myself. It's pretty cool, because all you usually have to do is show up. The GM's (or facilitators for GM-less games) usually have all the materials needed to play (when I ran, I provided dice, sheets and pencils) and are knowledgeable about what they're running. Sessions vary, but often 2-4 hours long. At GenCon, most games were 2 hours long, meaning you got to have a nice lengthy demo, but you weren't committed to a super long event, so you could go do other stuff.
It's run a little differently at every convention, because each convention is different. You'll find a really good presence at places like Origins, GenCon and PAX.
If you're in Europe or can travel to northern Europe, I know some Swedish and Norwegian gamers. They might know of something similar that happens there.
I design RPGs. I've found that the following helps.
Treat it like a convention game. Seriously.
1) Come in with a 3-4 session "arc".
2) Come in with a compelling setting pitch. Make the setting something that's cool, awesome and ISN'T Dwarves-Elves-Orcs Fantasy. A compelling picture is a godsend.
3) Prepare a 2 page (or less) document that explains how to play - the basic mechanics of the game.
4) Focus on games that have very simple mechanics. System mastery is your enemy. Customization in character creation is your enemy. Complexity is your enemy.
5) Hand people character sheets that are 90% complete with really easy options for customization. Have the back of the character sheet, or a 3x5" card, that explains that character's usual actions.
Your aim is to show up at the game, with a map, a setting pitch, 2 more character sheets than you need, give the setting pitch while people sort through the characters. You want to go from "Setting pitch to pick characters to playing" in 15-20 minutes after everyone chatters and catches up from last session.
I actually recommend learning to GM con scenarios for any GM. It really makes you alter your style, you watch the clock better, learn to be read players to see what's drawing their interest, have to keep things moving quickly, etc.
I don't run my home games like a con scenario, but it's taught me the value of a well timed break. Instead of going from a big, raucous combat into a quieter role-playing scene, I take a 2-5 minute break. People go to the restroom, smoke, grab a drink, talk about something else for a moment, etc. Then when people sit down again, it's really easy to set a different tone to what you were doing before. You can change gears more smoothly.
I also estimate combat a little better for time length, if I know it's going to take us late, I ask the players if we want to go long or wrap up early and start with it next time. Or maybe I take some aspect out of the combat to speed it up so we finish on time.
Plus you meet cool people, see interesting play styles and get to hone your craft in a much more acute manner.
I feel your pain. Within our group's archives are the complete Torg series of splat books and adventures, the same with Mayfair's version of DC Heroes, True20, Blue Rose, Iron Heroes, LUG's Star Trek RPG, d20 Star Wars, classic d6 Star Wars, d20 CoC, classic CoC, Vampire: the Masquerade 1e, Mutants and Masterminds, GURPS, D&D editions 1 through 3.5, Pathfinder, and a smattering of others. Some have been bequeathed to us by former members of our little band who no longer have interest in gaming (the Torg and DC Heroes sets, for example), others have just been bought and held onto over the decades we've been gaming together in hopes they would see some daylight and use. But for the last 10+ years it's been almost exclusively D&D 3.x and then Pathfinder, with a handful of d20 CoC games tossed in. Some of the older games actually saw lots of play when they first came out because we weren't married, parents, had real jobs, mortgages, etc and therefore had a million hours of free time.
Today, all they want to play is Pathfinder, which we transitioned to as soon as it came out. Before that it was 3.5 and before that 3.0. The reasons are sound because we don't have much time to get together (see the above list of grown up responsibilities), but as the guy who DMs 99% of the D&D/PF games (and has done so for decades) I'd like to either run something different or, heaven forbid, PLAY in one of the other systems.
*Looks at shelf and sighs wistfully*
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The pain...the pain...
You know what, i am going to run something else when we finish our current campaign. Since i am the only one who GMs (because everyone is either too lazy, or does not want to GM. They will have to try it out. There is a very small number of GMs in my city, and all of them are taken and booked for months in advance. SO they will have to roll with it. And if they don't like the idea, i am perfectly comfortable with not playing anything for a few months.
Back in College, my group played just about anything we could get our hands on. D&D was still prevalent, but we had at one time or another, campaigns going in Call of Cthulu, Beyond the Supernateral, Rifts, WoD mixed game, Gurps, Champions, Amber, and a game I can't remember the title of but was based on characters who through virtual reality take on different personas and game in different settings. Also played one shots of Paranoia and Traveling Vagabond when we just wanted a drunken laugh. Great times. It was a big group (10 or 12) people but only 5-7 played in any one game. Different people dmed and we tried to outdo each other for coolest stories. I think, for me, that is what made it work. Every DM tried (didn't always succeed, but tried) to create a terrific story that the players were the center of.
I have begun collecting old RPGs, buying them here and there whenever i managed, and have amassed quite a collection. Recently i bought the entire old world of darkness from a friend who had to sell them because he needed cash quickly (we still hang out and game together so it's not such a great loss to him as it could have been), but nobody wants to play anyting but Pathfinder. While that sings praises for Paizo's baby, i'd still like to at least try some of those other games. But no. Every time we finish a campaign, i mention that i could run something, and nobody wants to play. Sigh.
Any of you having a similar problem?
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Do you keep asking the same people over & over ?
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I've had Fairy Meat for five years and no one I game with has ever been willing to glue the fairy wings to their Warhammers or Warmachineries or whatever.
:(
had to google Fairy Meat...
what a wicked game! I'm in!
One of the best parts is that the actual battlefield being represented is exactly where you place the miniatures, since the actual minis are basically "life size". So if you want to have a battle set in a meadow, all you have to do is play in a meadow!
On a related note, this is the only game book I can think of that specifically warns against playing on train tracks.
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I think sometimes the reluctance of players to learn a new system is predicated on the assumption that a new system will require the same level of investment to learn that d20 games generally require.
I have seen people pick up pretty much most of the ins and outs of Savage Worlds at the table, the first time they play, without ever having looked at a rulebook.
I think sometimes the reluctance of players to learn a new system is predicated on the assumption that a new system will require the same level of investment to learn that d20 games generally require.
I have seen people pick up pretty much most of the ins and outs of Savage Worlds at the table, the first time they play, without ever having looked at a rulebook.
This, in a nutshell, is the problem, and has been the problem since the 1990s.
Think of d20/PF as being a series of college textbooks. If they're your frame of reference for "how an RPG works" anything that looks to be different from what you know is...learning another 6 credit college course worth of crazy rules/spells/feats/whatevers.
I've got a book case full of 3.0-3.5e books that are gathering dust since my group moved on to PF. Those in the group that DM our PF games only want to use PF material(and are even hesitant of PF-licensed 3rd party stuff), so my D&D books get no love.
So much for backwards compatibility. I want to run a 3.5e game, but everyone has just gotten the hang of PF rules and aren't interested in going back to 3.5e again. /Le sigh
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I don't allow inferior material in it. Simply.That's okay, the devs do it for you. :)
I know...but most of the stuff people wanted to use from 3.5 was the broken stuff that made some builds reeealy overpowered. So i banned everything so that there is no room for discussion. Not that we needed anything from 3.5. The core, apg and ultimates are more then enough for us. I'm blessed with a group of friends where nobody likes psionics...
A group I wouldn't fit in ;) Along with Warlocks, Shadowcasters, Tome of Battle, and a whole bunch of other options (at least PF now has the Occultist to pick up Binder).
But then, my standard game is a hybrid. The only group I run pure PF with is my newbie group. I have a lot of 3.5 stuff, no sense letting it go to waste. =D
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In my personal opinion, it is inferior to pathfinder. That doesn't mean that i don't play it. I ran a 6 month game with only 3.5 rules when my other friends (hardcore 3.5 loyalists asked me to). I also play in a montly game that is a terrifying hybrid of everything d20, but mostly 3.5 and pf. (i can't even...)
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In my personal opinion, it is inferior to pathfinder.
Which adds what, exactly, to the discussion? A discussion about being unable to play what you want?
Are you trying to convince him that he really doesn't want to play it? That he should see it as a blessing because he doesn't have to play an 'inferior' game?
Food for thought.
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Nope, if he wants to play it...he should do it. I'm not going to detract from his fun in any way. There are some people in my circle of friends who think that 3.5 is vastly superior to PF. Heck, there are those who think that 1E is vastly superior to anything that came out after it. I'm not going to dispute their words, because it is their opinion and i can't change those.
My friend sold all of his 3.5 books...i also never allow 3.5 material. I didn't get pathfinder because it is backwards compatible. I got it because it is an awesome system. I don't allow inferior material in it. Simply.
This is hilarious. "Antagonize" says hi.
The thing is, I don't care about which system is "superior." I really don't. I'm the kind of guy who will gladly use a cheaper, inferior product, if I know the ins and outs of it, and can make it work to meet the goals I wish to accomplish. 3.5 has some gaping holes in the system, flaws abound, but I learned how to work around those and still make a buttkicking, fun game that to this day, old players of mine still go on about how much fun they had.
I don't even care that much that our main group completely switched to PF; it's that PF is damn close to 3.5, but I've got tons of 3.5 material I never got to use, and never get to use in this group. Which is sort of what I thought this thread was about.
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It's also 3.5 with a lot of added flaws. I'm sure you're not going to suggest Josh's example was the only example, just because he only mentioned that one thing.
Wow, one feat. That is all?
Oh. You did. :/ Well, if you want to turn this thread into another long argument about the changes Pathfinder made, I guess it is your thread after all.
Basically, Pathfinder is 3.5 with houserules, which is good or bad depending on what you think of the houserules.
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Wow, one feat. That is all?
Not really...pf is 3.5 with a lot of improvements. I was talking about completely different game systems. Like Cyberpunk or Star Wars d6...
*facepalm*
It was an example. Did you really expect me to give a detailed breakdown of my opinion regarding each and every nuance of PF/3.5 variances? Did you even read the part where I don't give a rat's rear about system superiority?
All I did was try to relate with you, and you came off as a total snot about it. Keep on wondering why no one wants to play those other games with you.
Back to the original topic.
I just took a look at the quick-start download for Privateer Press' new 'Full Metal Fantasy' RPG (). I was initially a bit leery since they basically took their 'Warmachine/Hords' mechanic & re-worked it into an RPG system. I'm now leery because while I like what I see, I'm not certain I will be able to talk anyone else into playing & the core book runs about $60. On the other hand my regular 'every odd Friday' game group switches through game systems as we switch through GM's so that has a fairly solid shot. It doesn't hurt that since the Game World has a fairly solid 'Steampunk' vibe going I could use the mechanics for a homebrew Gaslight Fantasy.
Otherwise, Honestly, D20/Pathfinder isn't really my favorite system. The last time I got to play/run my favorite system was almost 20 years ago when I talked my friends into Ars Magica. More recently, I adore the Mouse Guard game & that got me interested in Burning Wheel; I have every roll&keep sourcebook for AEG's 7th Sea RPG & actually still manage to run that on occasion; I've played a couple different campaigns of 'Serentiy' though I still am not a fan of that mechanic (). Overall, I'm much fonder of skill-based systems than level-based systems.
I will actually admit to owning that as well. We even tried that one once. Made me realize that yes, my friends are evil.I actually feel very fortunate in that I have a group of players that always want to try something new. In fact, I don't think we've ever played the same rule system twice. The problem I have is that I have a bookshelf full of amazing Paizo products, all undeservedly accumulating dust while we play some obscure copy of the Sailor Moon RPG (I'm not kidding, I actually have that).
But if they're reluctant to change, maybe... you could try and talk them into it? I firmly belive that there's really very little difference between role playing games in general. When you get right down to it, all you're really doing is sitting around with your friends and telling stories. The only thing that really significantly changes is the setting. I can understand when a setting is not to a player's taste (*cough* Sailor Moon *cough*-*barf*), but in my experience, if you take the time to put together a good campaign, they will play it regardless of the ruleset.
If you build it, they will come?
I'd be up for trying that. XD
More recently, I adore the Mouse Guard game...
I've been hearing about this game for a while now, and from what I gather there seems to be superb aesthetics and presentation. Should I put this on my Christmas list?
Also, the RPG seems to be derived from a children book series. Anyone read those? Do they have good kid/adult value?
More recently, I adore the Mouse Guard game...I've been hearing about this game for a while now, and from what I gather there seems to be superb aesthetics and presentation. Should I put this on my Christmas list?
Also, the RPG seems to be derived from a children book series. Anyone read those? Do they have good kid/adult value?
Yes, buy it.
And no, Mouse Guard the graphic novels are NOT for children, not without guidance.
The predator-prey relationship in that book is scary as hell. It is quite grim and violent.
Phenomenal art!
And no, Mouse Guard the graphic novels are NOT for children, not without guidance.
Good to know,
thanks!
I've played a couple different campaigns of 'Serentiy' though I still am not a fan of that mechanic (). Overall, I'm much fonder of skill-based systems than level-based systems.
I haven't played Leverage, but I've heard lots of awesome things. The one major flaw in the game is that it only plays well with 4-5 people, because it requires a certain group composition.
I've only played one demo of Marvel, but I enjoyed it a lot. I also game with the lead designer and we just started a game using another variation of an unpublished game.
A kind of amalgam of Cortex/Fate/Burning Wheel is Chronica Feudalis. It's a pretty light system, medieval RPG (no magic), uses die-step, aspects and an extremely simplified life-path character creation system. Then from the same author, I highly recommend reading Technoir. He took the idea of Fiasco's playsets and turned them into campaign aids.