Magus builds are often based around the concept of spamming Spell Combat and Spellstrike with a melee touch spell (even a cantrip) each and every round to get an 'extra' attack, but that's hardly the be-all and end-all of building a Magus character, and the thread was about getting the most utility out of AoOsThe Magus is not the character you build if you want to be an AOO monster. AOO's are pure weapon strikes, spell combat or spell strike not being options as you can't fit them into the time slices for AOO attacks. If that's to be a main go to of your character, you should be looking at Fighter, not Magus.
I'm not sure if I'm in 100% agreement. I think 3/4 BAB characters hit the "sweet spot" for AoO. They still have a pretty good chance of hitting with their highest AB, and a magus can dramatically improve his chances of hitting with with his arcane pool/arcana. Can a fighter or full BAB character better utilize their AoO? Of course they can, but a kensai magus will have far more AoO each round. The damage from Frostbite scales as much as Paladin's Smite or a cavalier's Challenge, with an added d6. By 11th level, with Combat Reflexes and an 18 Dex and 18 Int (and it could be much higher), that's at least 9 AoO per round plus two iterative attacks. I would argue that's at least on par with a magus using shocking grasp, if not better.
The problem with that brlliant therory is that you can't AOO with a spellstrike.
But unless I'm missing something in all this, I don't have to AoO with a spellstrike. I just need to cast frostbite once, and it's good for as many attacks as I have levels - this should include AoO. So at 11th level (for example), I just need to cast Frostbite once before my attack, and it will be good for the next 11 attacks. This would make an AoO build very viable for kensai magus, yes?
I have a 15th level Kensai and i went crit/physical damage build with him and its turned out very nicely.. Burning an arcane point/power attacking hes like +23 to damage with over a +30 to hit with his main attack. His crit is 15-20 and utilizes staggering or blinding critical depending on the situation. At 17th he'll use both with critical mastery. I picked enduring blade and bane blade, so my normal
+3 shocking burst scimitar becomes a +5 shocking burst, acidic burst, bane weapon, lasts 15mins for 3 arcane pool points..
All spellstrike spells get discharged on the first hit.
Assuming you're choosing to use the ability, you can deliver the spell on hit. Deliver, not discharge.
If you're holding the charge, and you hit someone with an AoO, you have the option of using spellstrike to also deliver the held spell with that attack. Most spells, like Shocking Grasp, will be discharged when that happens, but not all of them. Touch spells that can be delivered multiple times, like Frostbite or Chill Touch, do not get discharged the first time you use spellstrike.
Of course they can, but a kensai magus will have far more AoO each round. The damage from Frostbite scales as much as Paladin's Smite or a cavalier's Challenge, with an added d6. By 11th level, with Combat Reflexes and an 18 Dex and 18 Int (and it could be much higher), that's at least 9 AoO per round plus two iterative attacks. I would argue that's at least on par with a magus using shocking grasp, if not better.And you would be wrong. Having 9 AOOs is absolutely irrelevant 99.99% of the time. Even having more than one for a non-reach melee is going to be irrelevant the vast majority of the time. So you spent feats and memorized spells to help an ability that you won't even get to use most of the time (and that you have no control over when you can use), AND when you use it you're cutting out the class' most powerful ability. Compared to the guy that memorizes spells that actually enhance that ability, it's not even going to be close in the long run. (Unless your GM absolutely loves you and makes the badguys act like morons running around you provoking every turn).
You seem to be presuming that the AoO are created by enemy movement. I would probably create them by enemy misses in combat (via Snake Fang) and through trip combat maneuvers. If opponents start to ignore my magus, there's no reason I can't start using shocking grasp with spellstrike.
Enemy moves DO provoke if the magus takes Pindown
Enemy moves DO provoke if the magus takes Pindown
It's certainly a consideration, but pindown causes no damage - it just prevents the opponent from taking his 5 foot step or withdraw. Also, a kensai would only be eligible to pick it up at 14th level.
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Either Snake style or Panther style will allow a Kensai to generate considerable AoO's. Just make sure your running an AC build instead of a glass cannon.
For real fun, take a couple levels of MoMS and run both styles. Get an AoO every time an oppoent takes an AoO against you and another when they miss.
Snake Fang is an unarmed attack and Pindown does no damage, is there another way to get more AoO's?
Snake Fang is an unarmed attack and Pindown does no damage, is there another way to get more AoO's?
I don't have an issue with using snake fang for an unarmed strike to trip, then gain another AoO with a weapon for the trip (with greater trip) and another AoO when the enemy gets back up. Possibly Vicious Stomp for another unarmed strike while the opponent is prone. I think Frostbite can be used with both the unarmed strikes and with a weapon using spellstrike.
It's rather infuriating that a kensai, a "sword saint" would have trouble taking advantage of one of his primary abilities without a sword.
Really you are infuriated that that class who name is Sword Saint it not best class to build pole arm guy.... I think blood vessel in my brain just burst. You are making me hurt. I hope you are trying to be funny.
What you talking about it blurring the lines between the class of what make them unique and that not good.
If you want build you AoO then add new time that can swing for AoO. Like Outflank (Combat teamwork feat), Paired Opportunists (Combat, Teamwork), Broken Wing Gambit*(Combat, Teamwork), & Improved Feint Partner*(Combat, Teamwork).
Signal player build are strong but, team builds are vastly stronger.
The Magus really works well as the second guy at the party or as part of Tag team.
I have seen them be the hammer with trip fighter as the anvil, or with Rouge like buzz saw just grind big HP target down to nothing to nothing in a round or two.
Build 1
Weapon Focus & Weapon Speciation is +1 to hit and +2 damage all the time.
No thought required.
Need BaB of +4 fighter level 4th and 2 feat.
Build 2
Precise Strike & Outflank is +2 to hit and +1d6 damage (average 3.5) + extra swing if your partner criticals
Need to be played smart.
Need DEX 13, BaB +4, 2 feats anyone can take it.
Build 2 doses 1.5 more damage per shot if played smart.
Build 2 doses more damage on critical cause you whole extra swing worth of damage possibly.
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As for using unarmed from Snake Fang to use trip, are you going to invest in an AoMF? Good luck hitting that 30+ CMD with medium bab and no enhancement bonus to help out.
Full BAB, assuming he takes the appropriate Maneuver Mastery Arcana. Also, why not invest in an amulet of mighty fists? One advantage of playing a Magus is that you can run with Greater Magic Weapon spells and throw in your arcane pool enhancements and don't need to buy a primary magic weapon at all... Unless you're a fully Dex-based Magus who needs an Agile weapon, but even then it only requires a +2 bonus equivalent to get that (minimum +1 and +1 for the Agile), so it's hardly breaking the bank.