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Last night my players had to fight a level 7 soc had level 5 fighter cohort since she had the leadership feat the party only got xp for the level 7 soc. They are complainig that they should have also goten xp for the level 5 fighter but since she had him from a feat is it not like if she summoned him thier for no bounes xp?
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Blackfell |
we had something VERY similar happen in a recent game. We fought a Vrock (demon) that successfully made it's percentile roll to summon... another Vrock. Technically, by the rules, we should only get experience for fighting a single demon, as supposedly the challenge rating (I'm sorry, I don't remember what it's called in pathfinder, just started playing it a few months ago over 3.5) takes into account the ability to summon a buddy.
I believe this would be similar. Technically, the cohort is just part of the challenge.... which a LOT of people think is a bit.... BS.
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![Captain Castothrane](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/A12_Captain_Castothrane_HI.jpg)
Uhh Blackfell is right in the summoning instance. If a party fights a Master Summoner and takes out 25 Celestial Dogs then you still only get credit for killing the summoner. BUT if this is a home game and NOT written by Paizo then I hardly doubt the exp for having the Leadership feat is calculated into encounter. In this instance, if it was written by the GM and NOT Paizo, then the party should have gotten experience from the cohort as well. The cohort in this circumstance is not a Class skill or a Spell Like ability.
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DM Carpe |
![Clockwork Librarian](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/A18_Robot-Librarian.jpg)
You should definetly give XP for the cohort - though I'll grant its not technically supposed to work that way. Its a simple fairness thing imo.
Lets take the exact same encounter except the Sorcerer has skill focus spellcraft, or anything that is not directly going to alter the encounter, the PCs would get far more experience for fighting the 5th level fighter and the seventh level sorcerer than for fighting the 5th level fighter and 7th level sorcerer. In normal games bad guys have minions who are essentially cohorts without the feats being needed.
So what you are doing is essentially giving your villain the feat give less XP for identical encounter. Does that seem fair, intuitive, or fun to you? If it does not then you are indeed doing something wrong. Ask yourself why you gave the character leadership, and is it available to your players? If I was a player in your game and you did that I would be thinking turn about is fair play, lets all get cohorts... I probably wouldn't actually do it, since I feel it would make the game less fun, but a GM taking decisions like that encourages player vs Gm thinking - generally a bad thing imo.
I have never seen Paizo use leadership like this in any of their modules or APs, which I think is very telling. Though I hardly have an exhaustive knowledge and could well be wrong.
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Kjob |
![Venster Arabasti](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/A17_Vensters_Ghost_HIGHRES.jpg)
I might give bonus XP in this scenario if, as Danielc put it, the minion significantly impacted the fight. That said, the sorcerer did use a resource (a feat) at their disposal to make the encounter tougher. People are comparing it to Skill Focus (Blah) but the reality is that it would have been toughness, Spell Focus, or perhaps a crafting feat, all of which would have, potentially, had a significant impact on the encounter.
Would the impact of one failed save, or a higher wealth, equal the impact a level 5 fighter had, though? That's your call. Also, was the fighter your traditional, optimized fighter? I know any time I've gotten a cohort, the cohort isn't exactly what I want, at the GM's discretion, just...mostly-to-somewhat...what I want.
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Kjob |
![Venster Arabasti](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/A17_Vensters_Ghost_HIGHRES.jpg)
ossian666 wrote:That is cold. Funny, but cold. LOLI just found a d-bag way of making my players hate me.
Every enemy they fight is the cohort of the BBEG at the end of the chapter. Sorry kids no experience until you kill the BBEG!
I was thinking it'd be pretty troll-y, but funny, to have a level 20 end boss that took Leadership. Their level 18 cohort then takes Leadership, the level 16 cohort of which takes Leadership...all the way down to a level 4 minion....hah.
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danielc wrote:I was thinking it'd be pretty troll-y, but funny, to have a level 20 end boss that took Leadership. Their level 18 cohort then takes Leadership, the level 16 cohort of which takes Leadership...all the way down to a level 4 minion....hah.ossian666 wrote:That is cold. Funny, but cold. LOLI just found a d-bag way of making my players hate me.
Every enemy they fight is the cohort of the BBEG at the end of the chapter. Sorry kids no experience until you kill the BBEG!
Ouch that would be a ton since it is leage as unlike summons there is nothing to say they can not also take the feat. Also think how may level 1 npc's they would have to go throw. Just think if there leadership scores are 25 each some how they would each bring 135 level 1, 13 level 2, 7 level 3, 4 level 4, 2 level 5 and 2 level 6 each to the fight. That would defintly drain thier stuff before they got into the big fight.