Fireball and Lightning Bolt


Rules Questions


Are they ranged attacks or what? I didnt lee Lightnbing Bolt having a ranged attack roll in my Core Rulebook, unless talking about through an arrowslit with a fireball.

Dark Archive

They are both area of effect spells. No attack rolls needed.


No they are not. They are Reflex save spells. The affected creatures make Reflex saves to avoid them.


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber
Talynonyx wrote:
They are Reflex save spells. The affected creatures make Reflex saves to avoid them.

Not avoid (unless you have evasion/improved evasion), take half damage from.


They are not ranged attacks. There is no attack roll needed. They are also both area of effect spells. There is also a reflex save that can be made to take reduced damage (not avoid unless you have other special sauce).

Even through an arrow slit there is no attack roll. Also because you just need line of sight to the grid intersection (depending on where you put it) you could possibly get targets behind a wall or around a corner, or that are hidden (or invisible) in your area.


The "through an arrow slit" rule is specific to Fireball. Fireball does quite a few things that people tend to not remember :)

Fireball wrote:

A fireball spell generates a searing explosion of flame that detonates with a low roar and deals 1d6 points of fire damage per caster level (maximum 10d6) to every creature within the area. Unattended objects also take this damage. The explosion creates almost no pressure.

You point your finger and determine the range (distance and height) at which the fireball is to burst. A glowing, pea-sized bead streaks from the pointing digit and, unless it impacts upon a material body or solid barrier prior to attaining the prescribed range, blossoms into the fireball at that point. An early impact results in an early detonation. If you attempt to send the bead through a narrow passage, such as through an arrow slit, you must "hit" the opening with a ranged touch attack, or else the bead strikes the barrier and detonates prematurely.

The fireball sets fire to combustibles and damages objects in the area. It can melt metals with low melting points, such as lead, gold, copper, silver, and bronze. If the damage caused to an interposing barrier shatters or breaks through it, the fireball may continue beyond the barrier if the area permits; otherwise it stops at the barrier just as any other spell effect does.

Lightning Bolt wrote:

You release a powerful stroke of electrical energy that deals 1d6 points of electricity damage per caster level (maximum 10d6) to each creature within its area. The bolt begins at your fingertips.

The lightning bolt sets fire to combustibles and damages objects in its path. It can melt metals with a low melting point, such as lead, gold, copper, silver, or bronze. If the damage caused to an interposing barrier shatters or breaks through it, the bolt may continue beyond the barrier if the spell's range permits; otherwise, it stops at the barrier just as any other spell effect does.

Neither are ranged attacks, and the roll necessary to not explode isn't...really...an attack.

What are you wondering about specifically? There's probably an interaction you're wondering about.


k, was making sure, no ranged attack just kinda felt, cheap lol


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I just wanted to applaud my fellow pathfinder board postees for making it several responses into a fireball thread without berating someone for using fireball.


On a tangent, do spells that require you to make a ranged attack, like Acid Arrow and Scorching Ray, could provoke two different attacks of opportunity from the same opponent (one for casting a spell in a threatened square, the other for using a ranged attack in a threatened square)? In other words, does using a spell that requires you to make a ranged attack roll is like using a ranged weapon in terms of provoking an attack of opportunity?


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Maerimydra wrote:
On a tangent, do spells that require you to make a ranged attack, like Acid Arrow and Scorching Ray, could provoke two different attacks of opportunity from the same opponent (one for casting a spell in a threatened square, the other for using a ranged attack in a threatened square)? In other words, does using a spell that requires you to make a ranged attack roll is like using a ranged weapon in terms of provoking an attack of opportunity?

Yes you provoke twice for such spells.


concerro wrote:
Maerimydra wrote:
On a tangent, do spells that require you to make a ranged attack, like Acid Arrow and Scorching Ray, could provoke two different attacks of opportunity from the same opponent (one for casting a spell in a threatened square, the other for using a ranged attack in a threatened square)? In other words, does using a spell that requires you to make a ranged attack roll is like using a ranged weapon in terms of provoking an attack of opportunity?
Yes you provoke twice for such spells.

Thank you! This situation just came up yesterday when the new magus in our party wanted to cast acid splash while using spell combat.


I thought you only got one attack of opportunity per round unless you have Combat Reflexes though. If so, in practice you'd only provoke once, unless you're facing an opponent with C. R.

It never comes up in games I'm in, since casters always 5-foot-step away from opponents if at all possible before casting.


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber

You still provoke twice, but the opponent can't take advantage of the second provocation (assuming he used the first to make his AoO).

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