Color Spray vs Sleep

[artificer]

At level 1 what makes a better "crowd control" spell for a universalist wizard: color spray or sleep?

[wraithstrike]

Sleep takes longer to cast, but you are not in as much danger. Color Spray stays useful over more levels though. I would not say either one is better. It just depends on how you choose to play the character.

[LazarX]

It's situational. Sleep you can cast at range as opposed to be up close and personal that colorspray requires. Color Spray on the other hand can be developed and those pesky elf types don't get an immunity to it.

And if you're the first one to color spray a particular gnome, he just might enjoy it.

[andreww]

Honestly, Grease is probably better than either of them. Both are powerful as they can completely remove an enemy from the field however Sleep has that horrible 1 round casting time and Colour Spray requires you to be right up close and personal. Both also have lots of common enemies which are immune to them, particularly undead.

Grease avoids those problems and also ignores SR.

[LazarX]

andreww wrote:

Honestly, Grease is probably better than either of them. Both are powerful as they can completely remove an enemy from the field however Sleep has that horrible 1 round casting time and Colour Spray requires you to be right up close and personal. Both also have lots of common enemies which are immune to them, particularly undead.

Grease avoids those problems and also ignores SR.

Grease however has no compunctions about tripping your friends or you either. Every option has it's tradeoffs.

[artificer]

andreww wrote:

Honestly, Grease is probably better than either of them. Both are powerful as they can completely remove an enemy from the field however Sleep has that horrible 1 round casting time and Colour Spray requires you to be right up close and personal. Both also have lots of common enemies which are immune to them, particularly undead.

Grease avoids those problems and also ignores SR.

Correct me if I am wrong but the small area (one object or 10-ft. square) of grease will mean it wont help with crowds.

[artificer]

LazarX wrote:

It's situational.

And if you're the first one to color spray a particular gnome, he just might enjoy it.

LOL. You mean this?

[MurphysParadox]

But it will help with chokepoints like hallways or the top of stairs. Hilarious results if your GM's willing to have some fun with it.

[andreww]

That depends on how clumped up enemies are. Grease will hit 4 squares, Colour Spray will hit 6 or 7 depending on placement, Sleep will hit 12.

I would still prefer Grease. It casts as a standard action with a longer range than Colour Spray, it wont get you murdered if you have to include an ally in the area, it can be used as either area effect or single target, it can help people escape from grapples, doesnt have a HD limit so can remain relevant in later levels, ignores SR and isnt rendered pointless by undead or golems.

[Erich L]

Color Spray is better than Sleep. Not only is it a shorter casting time, standard action versus 1 round, allies of sleeping victims can simply take an action to wake up someone sleeping, whereas once they are stunned, victims of Color Spray are effectively out of the fight until the spell duration ends.

[hogarth]

I've had way more luck with Sleep than I've had with Color Spray. I find it hard to avoid allies and still hit multiple enemies with Color Spray.

[artificer]

casting time of 1 round means that I get to see its effect at the beginning of my next turn?

[andreww]

It means that you start casting it on your turn but it doesnt finish casting until the start of your nexy.

Which means anything that hits you before your next turn will force a concentration check.

[Yosarian]

At level 1, I prefer sleep. You only get a couple of spells per day at that point, so you use them when you really need them, and often the point when the party really needs wizard backup is a situation color spray just won't work in (enemy are under cover at the end of a hallway/your fighter is surrounded and in trouble/ect). Sleep you can cast from under cover while your fighter is in meele combat.

They're both awesome spells, either one just will just ends an encounter, but sleep is useful in more situations.

The being said, by level 2-3, color spray is better. Sleep shines when you're fighting 1 HD monsters, but drops in value quickly.

[Kimera757]

I personally prefer Sleep, but both are powerful and limited. Powerful because the target is seriously screwed, but limited because immunity to either is common, and there's HD caps.

I don't recall if Color Spray has an ultimate cap; if not, I'd lean toward that one. There's no "right answer" though.

[Benly]

Kimera757 wrote:

I personally prefer Sleep, but both are powerful and limited. Powerful because the target is seriously screwed, but limited because immunity to either is common, and there's HD caps.

I don't recall if Color Spray has an ultimate cap; if not, I'd lean toward that one. There's no "right answer" though.

It doesn't. Against creatures with 5+ HD the effects bottom out at one round of stun, which is more than Sleep will do at that point but still probably not worth memorizing in the morning.

That said, Sleep only affects 4 HD of creatures total, while Color Spray will still blind and stun any number of 4-HD creatures you can catch in its AoE for several rounds. Unless you're fighting 1-HD or lower creatures, Sleep is not really an AoE control in a meaningful sense, and Color Spray is. For the stated universalist wizard, the only advantage Sleep has going for it is its range.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Color Spray all the way.

[Ciaran Barnes]

artificer wrote:

Correct me if I am wrong but the small area (one object or 10-ft. square) of grease will mean it wont help with crowds.

I usually play non-spellcasters I can say you're wrong. The spell description doesn't reflect its usefulness. Placement of the 10x10 and of combatants is crucial, so it requires some thinking. It can wreak havoc when used well, and that is good for the PCs.

[Finlanderboy]

With an oracle of the heavens dropping a mosnters effective level by your CHA bonus. This would make color spray last levels. While sleep....

[deuxhero]

If tripping wasn't nerfed, I'd prefer Enlarge Person to either.

Color Spray.