Thanks for the feedback. I've been AFK for a few days, so I'm going to process everything here and then get back to everyone. Just wanted to let you guys know why I haven't responded yet. ^-^"
I figured you'd taken a month off to plot your eventual take over of Paizo, and that these last few days were needed to secure some of the things needed to ensure your success.
What!? Madness!
No you're right, that would be ridiculous. In a perfect world it would be nice to see balanced options like that. But this is as good as it will probably get. Either way, I have a player in my campaign who's going to try your Zen Archer Archetype with this and attach it to an Empyreal Sorceror for Arcane Archer... So we'll see how that works out.
I'll probably be making builds and throwing them at my players to see how they handle it. At least until they get sick of psionic monks flying around the world all the time.
Keep in mind, I changed the Monk that Ashiel presented by including Stunning Fist as a Monk Secret, not a Bonus feat, because the Zen Archer modifies Bonus Feats and Stunning Fist. I figured for ease of conversion, to keep those two class abilities separate.
A Psionic Monk/Empyreal Sorcerer/Arcane Archer? Sounds like he's gonna have a lot of abilities to play with. I hope he's capable of dealing with all the choices he can make.
Thanks for the feedback. I've been AFK for a few days, so I'm going to process everything here and then get back to everyone. Just wanted to let you guys know why I haven't responded yet. ^-^"I figured you'd taken a month off to plot your eventual take over of Paizo, and that these last few days were needed to secure some of the things needed to ensure your success.
Haha, no no, nothing like that. <(^.^")>
Keep in mind, I changed the Monk that Ashiel presented by including Stunning Fist as a Monk Secret, not a Bonus feat, because the Zen Archer modifies Bonus Feats and Stunning Fist. I figured for ease of conversion, to keep those two class abilities separate.
That seems perfectly fair. I'll probably change stunning fist over as well. It was placed as a bonus feat because it used to be a monk bonus feat as well.
Admittedly, the state of archtypes has only been nodded to in this creation. I tried to make it easy on their conversion, but frankly I don't really care about most of the archtypes enough to make sure there are no issues, because a working "core monk" is more important to me. I don't feel this is too unfair, given that Paizo doesn't seem to care enough about their archtypes to even know how or if they work anyway. :P
I did want to make it so that most of said archtypes can be applied or converted however. The ability to place level restrictions on monk secrets, or simply replace monk secrets at level X should make the process easy enough.
I also wanted to note that the placement of monk secrets is not a random choice. They have directly replaced the stone-set abilities that core monks got. You'll notice that in both 3.x and Pathfinder monks received their new features on odd levels. I think this was a design decision as on even levels you typically are increasing things like save DCs for class features and your good saving throws (and usually a BAB). Classes tend to get noticeable class feature bumps on odd levels as well (primary spellcasters count odd levels as the markers for their next powerup, so the game counts lots of tiny tiers between strengths). For example, roughly every 2 levels their is typically a bump in strength for most classes (rogue sneak attack, caster spell levels, and so forth).
Not all classes follow this exactly (some get their bumps on even levels) but in general it tends to play out that way. I suppose if that really bothers people, they could swap the levels at which you gain secrets and catfall, but I kinda like it. XD
A Psionic Monk/Empyreal Sorcerer/Arcane Archer? Sounds like he's gonna have a lot of abilities to play with. I hope he's capable of dealing with all the choices he can make.
My only concern for this person is their caster levels. (^.^)"
Well, to be fair, Arcane Archer bumps caster level, but not manifester level. So his manifester level will be hurting come endgame. Maybe a custom feat to allow every 2 none-manifester levels to count as 1 manifester level for psionic powers and power point progression?
Also, I'm working on converting all the achetypes over. It's actually not very hard, had to change some things to work with power points instead of ki pool, but I like what I've done so far.
A Psionic Monk/Empyreal Sorcerer/Arcane Archer? Sounds like he's gonna have a lot of abilities to play with. I hope he's capable of dealing with all the choices he can make.My only concern for this person is their caster levels. (^.^)"
Well to be fair I'm using a lot of wierd houserules in this game. We typically play pretty core only, so we decided to play it loose and heavy. Stop being so serious for once. We're using this multiclassing "fix"
Multiclassing FixIt's essentially what Tels suggested. If he takes 10 levels of the monk he'll end up with a caster level of 15, but none of the other abilities.
Nice!
So far, the only thing I'm missing are the extra stunning fist conditions the core monk gained.
"ki strike: ... At 8th level, your unarmed strikes are treated as adamantine for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction. ... At 16th level, your unarmed strikes ignore hardness of less than 20. ..."
I would prefer a more gradual approach to ignoring hardness instead of jumping from zero to 20.
E.g. ignore 2 points of hardness per level over 8th.
"Monk training: ... The monk applies this bonus to hit to combat maneuvers preformed while unarmed ..."
The monk should also apply the bonus to damage to damage dealt by combat maneuvers (grapple) performed while unarmed.
"ki strike: ... The monk's unarmed strike is considered to be a +2 weapon at 4th level, ..."
That strikes me as a bit high. Shouldn't it start with being considered as a +1 weapon and progress from there?
"ki strike: ... The monk's unarmed strike is considered to be a +2 weapon at 4th level, ..."
That strikes me as a bit high. Shouldn't it start with being considered as a +1 weapon and progress from there?
Reread that section. The bit you quoted was for use in the Alvena campaign setting that Ashiel has been building.
Note: Heroes of Alvena uses incremental magic damage reduction. The monk's unarmed strike is considered to be a +2 weapon at 4th level, +3 weapon at 8th level, +4 weapon at 12th level, +5 weapon at 16th, and +6 at 20th. This is only for the purposes of bypassing DR X/Magic, and does not actually confer any bonuses to attack and damage.
Class skills:
I would drop Knowledge (arcana) and Spellcraft from the list of class skills. While monks are wise and knowledgeable I don't think they should be knowledgeable in the arcane in general. The arcane should stay so except for its students :-)
Furthermore I'd even drop Ride as I'm always imagining (generic) monks to rather walk than ride. Archetypes like the Sohei should add Ride back in, of course.
Maybe add Diplomacy to the list, reflecting the wisdom and serenity of a monk.
Class skills:
I would drop Knowledge (arcana) and Spellcraft from the list of class skills. While monks are wise and knowledgeable I don't think they should be knowledgeable in the arcane in general. The arcane should stay so except for its students :-)
Furthermore I'd even drop Ride as I'm always imagining (generic) monks to rather walk than ride. Archetypes like the Sohei should add Ride back in, of course.
Maybe add Diplomacy to the list, reflecting the wisdom and serenity of a monk.
Knowledge Arcana and Spellcraft were added because the Monk is a manifester. They use those two skills to identify psionic effects and items.
Remember, the Monk isn't just a martial artist anymore, he's also a caster/manifester with up to 6 spell/power levels.
If you haven't read Psionics Unleashed by Dreamscarred Press, you may be a little confused on some of the abilities.
Reread that section. The bit you quoted was for use in the Alvena campaign setting that Ashiel has been building."ki strike: ... The monk's unarmed strike is considered to be a +2 weapon at 4th level, ..."
That strikes me as a bit high. Shouldn't it start with being considered as a +1 weapon and progress from there?
Actually I saw that, but the thing I overlooked is that the monk's unarmed strikes are supposed to count as magic at level 1 already.
That clears up my misunderstanding with regards to having a jump to +2 at level 4 but I still think that this is a bit early. Maybe magic at level 3 (or maybe 2), and for Alvena: +2 at 6th, +3 at 9th, +4 at 12th, +5 at 15th and +6 at 18th or something like that. Just a thought, nothing too important.
Knowledge Arcana and Spellcraft were added because the Monk is a manifester. They use those two skills to identify psionic effects and items.
Remember, the Monk isn't just a martial artist anymore, he's also a caster/manifester with up to 6 spell/power levels.
If you haven't read Psionics Unleashed by Dreamscarred Press, you may be a little confused on some of the abilities.
Ah, thanks. I did read it once but as I haven't used it yet, I'm not firm with the details. Certainly I didn't expect manifesters to use the same skills as casters. Especially because Knowledge (psionics) was added to his list which made perfectly sense and I would expect that and not Knowledge (arcana) to be used to identify psionic effects and items. Instead of Spellcraft I probably would expect something called Psicraft. I find it rather strange if a manifester can identify spells being cast (and vice versa) as manifesting and casting are completely different in my opinion.
(Just looked it up and indeed Psicraft and Use Psionic Device did exist formerly but were dropped in Psionics Unleashed which I consider a bad and unnecessary choice, but so be it).
They dropped it because of the whole 'psionics is different' issue. In 3.5, someone with Spell Resistance was vulnerable to Psionics, and someone with Psionic Resistance, was vulnerable to spells. But because Psionics came out after the CRB, there were tons more creatures vulnerable to Psionics than Spells.
Then you run into Psionic Items which could only be identified by Psionic skills. A 30th level Caster with +70 in Spellcraft, would never be able to identify a Psionic item with a DC of 5, because it had to be a trained skill, and you had to have Knowledge Psionics and Psicraft.
In the even people who want to keep Psionics and Magic different, you use Knowledge Psionics and Psicraft, in the event you don't, you use Knowledge Arcana and Spellcraft.
Then you run into Psionic Items which could only be identified by Psionic skills. A 30th level Caster with +70 in Spellcraft, would never be able to identify a Psionic item with a DC of 5, because it had to be a trained skill, and you had to have Knowledge Psionics and Psicraft.
Why should a 30th level caster with +70 in Spellcraft be able to identify a Psionic item? It's not magic, it works on completely different principles, it requires to be activated mentally, so him not being able to identify it is just what I would expect.
Same for Spell Resistance and Psionic Resistance. Makes sense to keep them separate. For "old" creatures I would use a default of giving them Psionic Resistance equal to their Spell Resistance, though, because the resistance in general does not reflect special knowledge of the creature but is there to make the creature more dangerous.
IMHO Dark Sun (and probably other campaigns) would lose much of its atmosphere if psionics where just magic with other rules mechanics.
In the even people who want to keep Psionics and Magic different, you use Knowledge Psionics and Psicraft, in the event you don't, you use Knowledge Arcana and Spellcraft.
Makes sense :-)
To me, it breaks immersion. Wizards, for example, often know lots of things about the world. They have readied access to libraries, for the most part, and all knowledge skills are class skills. More often than naught, the player doesn't realize the GM intends to use Psionics, so he has no idea about Knowledge (Psionics) at all. Then comes the BBEG Psion and he has no idea what's going on.
This strikes me as wrong that the guy who's all about knowing things, doesn't get the chance to learn anything about Psionics, because he didn't know it existed beforehand.
It'd be like a Physicist working all of his life studying the world and universe around him, only to go to the mall, and encounter people casting spells, and suddenly discovering that magic has been an integral aspect of our society since before recorded history. Why hadn't he heard of it before? How had he never encountered it? Did all of reality suddenly just change around him? Or did his GM just screw him over because he bought a new book?
To me, if a creature is resistant to supernatural forces (i.e. magic, Psionics etc) his resistance should apply to all supernatural forces, unless specifically called out otherwise. Like say, a creature from a realm where no magic exists, would not be resistant to magic. But a creature that comes from a realm where both magic and psionics are used freely, would be resistant to both, not just one or the other.
It may just be the way we two look at the different systems. I look at Arcane magic as manipulating the supernatural energies generated by life to do extraordinary things. I look at Divine magic as manipulating the cast of divine energy generated by a God to do extraordinary things. I look at Psionics as casting forth the energy of the mind to do extraordinary things. In the end, all three are simply a type of magic, Arcane, Divine and Psionic, but where Arcane and Divine use external force, Psionic uses internal force.
If anyone is interested, I have updated and re-worked my Mystic Monk here. It's got a few new ideas, tweaks and the like included with it.
Here are the Archetypes I've got so far. Remember, these are my conversions of the Archetypes, so take what you will from them. Also, keep in mind, in these Archetypes, I'm operating under the change that Stunning Fist is made a Secret instead of a Bonus Feat. Some abilities of the Archetypes were too different to convert straight over, so I tried to give them a useful ability that fit with the theme of the Archetype itself. Ones that come to mind are the Drunken Ki of the Drunken Master and the Ki Mystic ability of the Ki Mystic.
I should mention, I didn't do Martial Artist yet because the Martial Artist gives up a lot. His theme is to be a none-supernatural warrior, basically, so turning him into a 3/4 caster is against the theme of the archetype, but totally taking away the Powers really neuters the class. I'm still pondering what to give him instead, and I have a couple ideas bouncing around, but they're rather Meh really. Any help would be great.
At 3rd level, a drunken master can drink a tankard of ale, or strong alcohol and gain 1d4 temporary power points. The act of drinking is a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. The monk can have a maximum number of drunken ki power points equal to his manifester level plus his Constitution modifier. If the drunken master gains more drunken ki power points than he can hold, he must immediately make a fortitude save equal to 10 + the total number of drunken ki points he he has; this save must be made each round until the total number of drunken ki power points goes back below his limit. If he fails this save, he is nauseated for a number of rounds equal to his Constitution modifier while he empties his stomach of all alcohol and drunken ki power points. In effect, he vomits up the ki he imbibed through the alcohol. When nauseated from too many drunken ki power points, the drunken master can make another fortitude save each round after the first to end the nauseated condition, but he still loses all drunken kit power points. As long as the drunken master has at least 1 temporary power point from his drunken ki, he may spend 1 drunken ki power point as a swift action to move 5 feet without provoking attacks of opportunity.
This ability replaces the Secret gained at 3rd level.
Drunken Strength (Su)
At 5th level, a drunken master can spend 1 power point as a swift action to inflict 1d6 extra points of damage on a single successful melee attack. The monk can choose to apply the damage after the attack roll is made. At 10th level, the monk may spend 2 drunken ki power points to increase the extra damage to 2d6. At 15th level, the monk may spend 3 drunken ki power points to increase the extra damage to 3d6. At 20th level, the monk may spend 4 drunken ki power points to increase the extra damage to 4d6. The monk must have at least 1 drunken ki power point to use this ability.
This ability replaces the Secret gained at 5th level.
Drunken Courage (Su)
At 11th level, a drunken master is immune to fear as long as he has at least 1 power point from drunken ki.
This ability replaces the Secret gained at 11th level.
Drunken Resilience (Ex)
At 13th level, a drunken master gains DR 1/— as long as he has at least 1 power point from drunken ki. At 16th level, the DR increases to 2/—. At 19th level, it increases to 3/—.
This ability replaces the Secret gained at 13th level.
Firewater Breath (Su)
At 19th level, a drunken master can take a drink and expel a gout of alcohol-fueled fire in a 30-foot cone. Creatures within the cone take 20d6 points of fire damage. A successful Reflex saving throw (DC 10 + 1/2 the monk’s level + the monk’s Wis modifier) halves the damage. Using this ability is a standard action that consumes 4 power points from the monk’s power pool. The monk must have at least 1 drunken ki power point to use this ability.
This ability replaces the Secret gained at 19th level.
A flowing monk replaces the normal monk bonus feats with the following: Agile Maneuvers, Combat Reflexes, Deflect Arrows, Dodge, Improved Reposition, Improved Trip, Nimble Moves, and Weapon Finesse.
At 6th level, the following feats are also available: Acrobatic Steps, Bodyguard, Improved Disarm, Improved Feint, Ki Throw, Mobility, Second Chance, and Sidestep.
At 10th level, the following feats are added: In Harm’s Way, Repositioning Strike, Snatch Arrows, Spring Attack, and Tripping Strike.
Redirection (Ex)
At 1st level, as an immediate action, a flowing monk can attempt a reposition or trip combat maneuver against a creature that the flowing monk threatens and that attacks him. If the combat maneuver is successful, the attacker is sickened for 1 round (Reflex DC = 10 + 1/2 the monk’s level + monk’s Wisdom modifier to halve the duration), plus 1 additional round at 4th level and for every four levels afterward (to a maximum of 6 rounds at 20th level). The monk gains a +2 bonus on the reposition or trip combat maneuver check and the save DC for redirection increases by 2 if the attacker is using Power Attack or is charging when attacking him. The benefit increases to a +4 bonus and an increase of the saving throw by 4 if both apply.
At 4th level, a flowing monk can use redirection against an opponent that the flowing monk threatens and that attacks an ally with a melee attack. At 8th level, a flowing monk can make both a reposition and a trip maneuver as part of a single immediate action with this ability. At 12th level, a flowing monk can use redirection against any opponent that attacks him in melee, even if the flowing monk is not threatening the opponent who attacks him. A flowing monk can use this ability once per day per monk level, but no more than once per round.
This ability replaces the Secret gained at 1st level.
Unbalancing Counter (Ex)
At 2nd level, a flowing monk’s attacks of opportunity render a struck creature flat-footed until the end of the flowing monk’s next turn (Reflex DC 10 + 1/2 the monk’s level + Wisdom modifier negates).
This ability replaces the bonus feat gained at 2nd level.
Flowing Dodge (Ex)
At 3rd level, a flowing monk gains a +1 dodge bonus to AC for each enemy adjacent to him, up to a maximum bonus equal to his Wisdom modifier (minimum 1).
This ability replaces the Secret gained at 3rd level.
Elusive Target (Ex)
At 5th level, as an immediate action, a flowing monk may spend a number of power points from his power pool equal to his monk level to attempt a Reflex save opposed by an attacker’s attack roll to halve damage from that attack. At 11th level and above, the flowing monk suffers no damage on a successful save, or half damage on a failed save. If the attacker is flanking the monk, the flanking opponent who is not attacking becomes the target of the attack. Use the same attack roll, and if the attack hits the new target, that creatures takes half damage (or full damage if the attack is completely avoided). Any associated effects from the attack (such as bleed, poison, or spell effects) apply fully even if the attack deals only half damage.
This ability replaces the Secrets gained at 5th and 11th level.
Volley Spell (Su)
At 15th level, when a targeted spell, spell-like ability, power or psi-like ability fails to overcome a flowing monk’s spell resistance, he may reflect the effect onto its caster as spell turning (Core Rulebook 347) by spending a number of points from his ki pool equal to 1/2 the spell’s level (minimum 1).
This ability replaces the Secret gained at 15th level.
At 1st level, a hungry ghost monk gains Punishing Kick as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites. At 10th level, and every five levels thereafter, the monk can push the target of his Punishing Kick an additional 5 feet (10 feet at 10th level, 15 feet at 15th level, and 20 feet at 20th level). At 15th level, he can instead choose to push the target 5 feet and knock the target prone with the same attack. The target still gets a saving throw to avoid being knocked prone.
This ability replaces the Secret gained at 1st level.
Steal Ki (Ex)
At 5th level, a hungry ghost monk can steal ki from other creatures, though this ability is controversial in some circles of monks, who see it as nothing less than a form of vampirism. If the monk scores a confirmed critical hit against a living enemy or reduces a living enemy to 0 or fewer hit points, he can steal some of that creature’s ki. This ability replenishes 1 spent power point point to the monk’s power pool, as long as the monk has at least 1 power point in his pool. He cannot exceed his power pool’s maximum. At 11th level, each time the monk successfully steals ki, he can make an immediate saving throw against one disease he is suffering from. There is no penalty for failing this saving throw. The monk gains a bonus equal to his Wisdom modifier on the saving throw.
This ability replaces the Secret gained at 5th level.
Life Funnel (Su)
At 7th level, a hungry ghost monk can steal a creature’s life force to replenish his own. If the monk has at least 1 power point in his power pool and scores a confirmed critical hit against a living enemy or reduces a living enemy to 0 or fewer hit points, he heals a number of hit points equal to his monk level. As with steal ki, some monks believe that life funnel is an unsavory act, no better than what the undead do to the living. A monk with this ability cannot steal both ki and hit points at the same time.
This ability replaces the Secret gained at 7th level.
Life from a Stone (Su)
At 11th level, a hungry ghost monk can steal ki or life force from any creature, not just living creatures. If the monk has at least 1 ki point in his pool, he gains the benefit of life funnel and steal ki when he confirms a critical hit against any creature or reduces any creature to 0 or fewer hit points.
This ability replaces the Secret gained at 11th level.
Sipping Demon (Su)
A 13th level, a hungry ghost monk gains 1 temporary hit point each time he hits an enemy with a melee attack. The monk gains a number of temporary hit points equal to his Wisdom modifier when he scores a critical hit. The maximum number of temporary hit points the monk can have is equal to his monk level. The temporary hit points disappear 1 hour later. The monk can only use this ability when he has at least 1 power point in his power pool. This ability is a proscribed manipulation of ki considered by many good monks to be a corruption.
The ability replaces the Secret gained at 13th level.
A ki mystics Wisdom score is treated as being 4 points higher for the purposes of bonus power points from having a high attribute. At 4th level, and every 2 levels thereafter, a ki mystic gains a bonus power that is drawn from the Psychic Warrior power list. This bonus power is in addition to the power learned every level. If a ki mystic has at least 1 power point in his power pool, he gains a +2 bonus to all Knowledge skill checks. As a swift action, the ki mystic can spend 1 power point immediately before making an ability, or skill check to gain a +4 insight bonus on the check.
This ability replaces the Secret gained at 3rd level.
Mystic Insight (Su)
At 5th level, a ki mystic becomes apt at giving just the right word of advice in just the nick of time. As an immediate action, the monk can spend a number of power points equal to his monk level to grant an ally within 30 feet the ability to reroll a single attack roll or saving throw. The ally must be able to hear the monk to gain the reroll benefit.
This ability replaces the Secret gained at 5th level.
Mystic Visions (Su)
At 11th level, a ki mystic may receive mystic visions when he rests. These visions can come as a dream, an epiphany, or even as the voice of an old friend whispering in the monk’s mind. The effect is similar to an augured answer powerl with a manifester level equal to the monk’s level. The augured answer has no manifester time; it is just part of the normal dreams or visions that occur every night. Using this ability costs 7 power points that are removed from the next day’s total.
This ability replaces the Secret gained at 11th level.
Mystic Prescience (Su)
At 13th level, a ki mystic gains a +2 insight bonus to AC and CMD. At 20th level, the bonus increases to +4.
This ability replaces the Secret gained at 13th level.
Mystic Persistence (Su)
At 19th level, a ki mystic can create an aura once per day as a swift action at the cost of at least 11 power points. The aura emanates out to a 20-foot radius. The monk and all allies within the aura can roll two dice when making an attack roll or a saving throw and take the better result. The aura lasts for 1 round, plus an additional round for every 11 power points spent when the monk created the aura. The monk can dismiss the aura at any time as a free action, but the power points spent for the full duration of the aura are lost.
This ability replaces the Secret gained at 19th level.
In addition to normal monk bonus feats, a maneuver master may select any Improved combat maneuver feat (such as Improved Overrun) as a bonus feat.
At 6th level and above, he may select any Greater combat maneuver feat (such as Greater Grapple) as a bonus feat.
At 10th level and above, he may select any maneuver Strike feat (such as Tripping Strike) as a bonus feat.
Flurry of Maneuvers (Ex)
At 1st level, as part of a full-attack action, a maneuver master can make one additional combat maneuver, regardless of whether the maneuver normally replaces a melee attack or requires a standard action. Using flurry of maneuvers imposes a -2 penalty on all combat maneuvers and attacks made until the beginning of the monk’s next turn. At 5th level, the penalty on maneuvers and attacks reduces to -1, and at 9th level, the penalty disappears.
When a monk reaches 11th level, his flurry of maneuvers ability improves. In addition to the standard single extra maneuver he gets from flurry of maneuvers, he gets a second extra maneuver at his full base attack bonus.
This ability replaces flurry of blows and greater flurry.
Maneuver Defense (Ex)
At 3rd level, if a maneuver master has an Improved combat maneuver feat, any creature attempting that maneuver against the maneuver master provokes an attack of opportunity, even if it would not normally do so.
This ability replaces the Secret gained at 3rd level.
Reliable Maneuver (Ex)
At 4th level, as a swift action, a maneuver master may spend 1 power point from his power pool before attempting a combat maneuver. He can roll his combat maneuver check for that maneuver twice and use the better result.
This ability replaces cat fall.
Meditative Maneuver (Ex)
At 5th level, as a swift action, a maneuver master can add his Wisdom modifier on any combat maneuver check he makes before the beginning of his next turn. He must choose which combat maneuver check to grant the bonus to before making the combat maneuver check.
This ability replaces the Secret gained at 5th level.
Sweeping Maneuver (Ex)
At 11th level, a maneuver master can make two combat maneuvers as a standard action, as long as neither maneuver requires the maneuver master to move. He may perform two identical maneuvers against two adjacent enemies, or he may perform two different combat maneuvers against the same target.
This ability replaces the Secret gained at 11th level.
Whirlwind Maneuver (Ex)
At 15th level, once per day as a full-round action, a maneuver master can attempt a single combat maneuver against every opponent he threatens, as long as the combat maneuver does not require movement. He makes a single combat maneuver check, and it applies to all targets.
This ability replaces the Secret gained at 15th level.
At 1st level, 2nd level, and every four levels thereafter, a master of many styles may select a bonus style feat or the Elemental Fist feat. He does not have to meet the prerequisites of that feat, except the Elemental Fist feat. Alternatively, a master of many styles may choose a feat in that style’s feat path (such as Earth Child Topple) as one of these bonus feats if he already has the appropriate style feat (such as Earth Child Style). The master of many styles does not need to meet any other prerequisite of the feat in the style’s feat path.
This ability replaces a monk’s standard bonus feats.
Fuse Style (Ex)
At 1st level, a master of many styles can fuse two of the styles he knows into a more perfect style. The master of many styles can have two style feat stances active at once. Starting a stance provided by a style feat is still a swift action, but when the master of many styles switches to another style feat, he can choose one style whose stance is already active to persist. He may only have two style feat stances active at a time. At 8th level, the master of many styles can fuse three styles at once. He can have the stances of three style feats active at the same time. Furthermore, he can enter up to three stances as a swift action.
At 15th level, the master of many styles can fuse four styles at once. He can have the stances of four style feats active at the same time. Furthermore, he can enter up to four stances as a free action by spending 5 points from his power pool.
This ability replaces flurry of blows and the Secret gained at 15th level.
Perfect Style (Ex)
At 19th level, a master of many styles can have the stances of five style feats active at once, and can change those stances as a free action.
This ability replaces the Secret gained at 19th level.
At 1st level, a monk of the four winds gains Elemental Fist as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites. At 5th level, and every five levels thereafter, the monk increases the damage of his Elemental Fist by 1d6 (2d6 at 5th level, 3d6 at 10th level, and so on).
This ability replaces the Secret gained at 1st level.
Slow Time (Su)
At 12th level, a monk of the four winds can use his ki to slow time or quicken his movements, depending on the observer. As a swift action, the monk can expend 12 power points to gain three standard actions during his turn instead of just one. The monk can use these actions to do the following: take a melee attack action, use a skill, use an extraordinary ability, or take a move action. The monk cannot use these actions to cast spells, use spell-like abilities, manifest powers or manifest psi-like abilites, and cannot combine them to take full-attack actions. Any move actions the monk makes this turn do not provoke attacks of opportunity.
This ability replaces the dimension step ability gained at 12th level. **If dimension step is a typo on the chart, then this replaces the Secret gained at 13th level.
Aspect Master (Su)
At 17th level, a monk of the four winds must choose an aspect of one of the great spirits of the world. Once made, this choice cannot be changed. This spirit grants the monk a new appearance and new abilities, as well as changing or augmenting the monk’s personality in some way. Once this choice is made, it cannot be changed. The monk must abide by the alignment restrictions of the aspect. If the monk ever changes his alignment to something outside the aspect’s alignment restrictions, he loses this ability and cannot regain it unless his alignment later changes again to match that of the aspect.
Aspect of the Carp: The monk’s skin becomes a coat of golden, iridescent fish scales, his neck grows gills, and his fingers become webbed. He can breathe water and gains a swim speed equal to his land speed. The carp is heroic and adventurous—a monk must be non-evil to take on the aspect of the carp.
Aspect of the Ki-Rin: The monk’s skin takes on a golden luminescence, and a silvery mane that cannot be bound grows atop his head. He gains a fly speed equal to his land speed, but he must end each turn on the ground. If the monk does not land by the end of his turn, he falls from whatever height he has attained. The ki-rin is honorable, honest, and self-sacrificing—a monk must be lawful good to take on the aspect of the ki-rin.
Aspect of the Monkey: The monk’s face becomes that of a monkey, and he grows a prehensile tail. The monk can pick up objects and make unarmed attacks with his tail (though the tail does not grant additional unarmed attacks or natural attacks). In addition, the monk gains a climb speed equal to his land speed. The monkey is a creature of whimsy and a lover of pranks—a monk of any alignment can take on the aspect of the monkey.
Aspect of the Oni: The monk’s skin becomes pitch black, and his hair turns white, black, red, or violet. He can assume gaseous form (as the spell) as a standard action for 1 minute per day per monk level. This duration does not need to be consecutive, but it must be spent in 1-minute increments. The oni is treacherous and deceitful, and it hungers for the pain and death of living creatures—a monk must be evil to take on the aspect of the oni.
Aspect of the Owl: The monk grows feathers, and his head becomes avian, with wide, unblinking eyes. He gains a fly speed of 30 feet. The owl is a sage creature, deeply serious, and driven toward a single goal—a monk of any alignment can take on the aspect of the owl.
Aspect of the Tiger: Dark stripes appear on the monk’s skin, and his face becomes more feline. His eyes become catlike, with vertical pupils, and his canines enlarge. Once per hour, the monk can move at 10 times his normal land speed when he makes a charge and is treated as if he had the pounce ability. The tiger is swift, fierce, and deadly—a monk of any alignment can take on the aspect of the tiger.
This ability replaces the Secret gained at 17th level.
Immortality (Su)
At 20th level, a monk of the four winds no longer ages. He remains in his current age category forever. Even if the monk comes to a violent end, he spontaneously reincarnates (as the spell) 24 hours later in a place of his choosing within 20 miles of the place he died. The monk must have visited the place in which he returns back to life at least once.
This ability replaces transcendence.
In the "Powers Known" section: "Exception: The feat Expanded Knowledge does allow a Psychic warrior to learn powers from the lists of other classes."
Should this be "monk", not "Psychic warrior"?
Thanks, fixed. Silly copy/paste oversights. XD
Overall, I like this concept and the implementation.
Thank you. ^-^
Can I suggest that you apply the Monk Training at the "dead levels": 5, 9, 13 & 17.
You can, though I'm not sure if I'll change it at the moment. Something that does strike me as funny is that a lot of the things people have suggested changing are things that have existed on the core monk for like 3 editions now. XD
For example:
1) The monk secrets pop up on the levels monks got their class features that weren't slow fall.
2) The monk's unarmed strike progression of 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th is the levels that the core monk increases their unarmed strike damage to d8, d10, 2d6, 2d8, and 2d10 respectively.
Wizards, for example, often know lots of things about the world. They have readied access to libraries, for the most part, and all knowledge skills are class skills. More often than naught, the player doesn't realize the GM intends to use Psionics, so he has no idea about Knowledge (Psionics) at all. Then comes the BBEG Psion and he has no idea what's going on.
Like you said, wizards have access to all knowledge skills including Knowledge (Psionics). If they don't take one of these skills, they know nothing about these things. If the wizard has no ranks in Knowledge (religion) and wants to know something about an undead he encounters he cannot say, "hey I'm a wizard and I'm supposed to know things, so I'm just rolling against Knowledge (arcana), ok?". I don't see why this should be different with psionics.
Why hadn't he heard of [psionics] before? How had he never encountered it? Did all of reality suddenly just change around him? Or did his GM just screw him over because he bought a new book?
If the GM just bought a new book he has to put a bit of work into integrating its contents into existing campaigns. So, psionics might indeed be hitherto unknown, maybe because only underground folks or folks from beyond the sea or the mountains know and use it and the BBEG Psion is the first of an expedition force into the known lands. So these strange powers come as a real surprise and the wizard suddenly realizes that there is something new to learn. Something unheard of! What an opportunity for a sage!
If the GM just slaps psionics onto the campaign and Psions are popping up here and there with now story behind them, just because the GM bought a new book, then, well, yes, he did screw his player. But this should not be taken care of by rules badly mixing things together which are clearly different. Otherwise, what's the point of introducing psionics if it's just magic in a rules disguise?Not wanting to derail the thread further, I'd suggest to move further discussion of this topic (if any) into a new thread.
Not wanting to derail the thread further, I'd suggest to move further discussion...
Got a link to said thread? :D
Here are the Archetypes I've got so far. Remember, these are my conversions of the Archetypes, so take what you will from them. Also, keep in mind, in these Archetypes, I'm operating under the change that Stunning Fist is made a Secret instead of a Bonus Feat. Some abilities of the Archetypes were too different to convert straight over, so I tried to give them a useful ability that fit with the theme of the Archetype itself. Ones that come to mind are the Drunken Ki of the Drunken Master and the Ki Mystic ability of the Ki Mystic.
I should mention, I didn't do Martial Artist yet because the Martial Artist gives up a lot. His theme is to be a none-supernatural warrior, basically, so turning him into a 3/4 caster is against the theme of the archetype, but totally taking away the Powers really neuters the class. I'm still pondering what to give him instead, and I have a couple ideas bouncing around, but they're rather Meh really. Any help would be great.
** spoiler omitted **...
Very nice that you've taken the time to convert some archtypes for us Tels. Thank you. ^-^
If I may, I would suggest a few tiny revisions. ^-^
ALTERNATIVELY since the other drunken master abilities use the juice that you get from getting juiced, perhaps separate it from the power points entirely and just give them booze points. That pretty much allows you to port the whole archtype over with virtually no downsides or worries of having issues. It only means you track your booze / PP separately (not a huge issue for an archtypal power).
At 5th level, a hungry ghost monk can steal ki from other creatures, though this ability is controversial in some circles of monks, who see it as nothing less than a form of vampirism. If the monk scores a confirmed critical hit against a living enemy or reduces a living enemy to less than 0 hit points with a melee attack the hungry ghost steals their power. This functions as the psychic drain power, except the monk drains 2 power points or deal 1 point of ability damage. At 9th level, the monk drains 4 power points or deals 2 points of ability damage. At 13th level, the monk drains 6 power points or deals 3 points of ability damage. At 17th level, the monk drains 8 power points or deals 4 points of ability damage. The monk adds any power points drained (or would have drained in the case of nonpsionic creatures) to his current power points, up to his maximum power points.
At 11th level, each time the monk successfully steals ki, he can make an immediate saving throw against one disease he is suffering from. There is no penalty for failing this saving throw. The monk gains a bonus equal to his Wisdom modifier on the saving throw.
And life from stone might be like this.
At 11th level, a hungry ghost monk can steal ki or life force from any creature, not just living creatures. The monk gains the benefit of life funnel and steal ki when he confirms a critical hit against any creature or reduces any creature to 0 or fewer hit points.
I'ma look over the rest of them, but I need to do some stuff so I gotta cut this a bit short. ^.^"
...like that Warlock conversion ;)
...like that Warlock conversion ;)
You know I was thinking about you and that Warlock project just yesterday. This must be a sign that it needs completing. XD
Been folowing along. I like the concept, though i like it as an "alternate" monk.
And I agree with Liam about the whole Knowledge psionics/arcana and psicraft/spellcraft issue. They should remain separate skills, and DM's should just make sure their players can make informed decisions rather than slap a system into a game mid-play without any considerations.
Been folowing along. I like the concept, though i like it as an "alternate" monk.
And I agree with Liam about the whole Knowledge psionics/arcana and psicraft/spellcraft issue. They should remain separate skills, and DM's should just make sure their players can make informed decisions rather than slap a system into a game mid-play without any considerations.
On the subject of the psionics/magic topic, I actually prefer what Dreamscarred did here. It makes everything way easier to handle during a game, transparency is wonderful, and they are ultimately all just different methods of achieving the same things.
I mean, if arcana/psionics require new spellcraft skills, then why not arcane/divine? Why is there not an Arcanecraft and Divinecraft and Psicraft?
Ultimately in our own reality there is not much difference between magic and psionics. I'm not saying we can summon demons or charm people, but I am saying that many people believe you can use magic or psychic powers and such things are what the fantasy equivalents are based on. Psychic powers and magic are in reality very synonymous and have much overlap, and while some practitioners form into certain systems of function or try to apply different philosophies or approaches to them (including some who study psychic phenomena as a science while trying to avoid mysticism), ultimately all that matters is the result or desired result.
If a wizard waves his finger and drops a ball of fire on the enemies, it's magic. If a cleric of the fire domain prays hard and drops a ball of fire on the enemies, it's magic. If a psion focuses his will strongly and drops a ball of fire on the enemies, it's magic. More or less. It's just magic done in a different way.
...like that Warlock conversion ;)You know I was thinking about you and that Warlock project just yesterday. This must be a sign that it needs completing. XD
Now I am sad. Ashiel have never replied to my Revised Warlock for Pathfinder thread. :)
MA
...like that Warlock conversion ;)You know I was thinking about you and that Warlock project just yesterday. This must be a sign that it needs completing. XDNow I am sad. Ashiel have never replied to my Revised Warlock for Pathfinder thread. :)
MA
Oh hey Master Arminas. ^.^
I think Kryzbyn was talking about a conversion of the World of Warcraft warlock (basically a fiend-binding mage who uses shadow and fire magics heavily) I was doing on a lark. I put it on hold because I've been busy with other life-things and working on other projects, but it was about 40-60% finished I believe. Kryzbyn declared he would join the Cult of Ashiel if I completed it, so that's probably reason enough that I should. The more the merrier. ^-^
I'll try to check out your 3.5 to PF warlock conversion however! :D
It is all good, Ashiel. Your WoW-style warlock sounds interesting as well, and I wouldn't mind seeing it.
MA
I mean, if arcana/psionics require new spellcraft skills, then why not arcane/divine? Why is there not an Arcanecraft and Divinecraft and Psicraft?
True, and honestly that's a beef I've always had with divine/arcane division, anyway. I wish they were actually different things.
But, I guess within the rules we have, then I'm fine with psionic stuff being lumped in. At the end of the day, it's a relatively small issue either way.
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Join us Kryzbyn! Our Lord and Master, the Benevolent Ashiel, has cookies!
|
hey.
diggin' the psi-monk here. will most likely use it once i can get the pathfinder psionics book. gave away my 3.X psi-books long ago (mistake)...
i must agree strongly with posters on three general accounts.
1) the level progression needs to be smoother. a level of secret+feat followed by a level of neither is choppy. as is going up +2 to strike one level then by +0 the next.
2) especially since you are re-imagining the monk, clinging to it's exact levels when a certain ability or advancement was granted seems to hold you back from smoothing out the progression.
3) fold the feats into the secrets.
essentially, a few small tweaks could easily alleviate the choppage.
how about (i used Speed of Thought to fill in emptier levels 3/7/11/15/19 - you could similarly distribute Powers or old monk features here):
1 Unarmed Strike 1d6, AC Bonus (Wis), Flurry
2 Secret, Evasion
3 Speed of Thought 10
4 Secret, Catfall 10
5 Monk Weapons +1
6 Secret, Catfall 20
7 Speed of Thought 20
8 Secret, Catfall 30
9 Monk Weapons +2, Improved Evasion
10 Secret, Catfall 40
11 Speed of Thought 30
12 Secret, Catfall 50
13 Monk Weapons +3
14 Secret, Catfall 60
15 Speed of Thought 40
16 Secret, Catfall 70
17 Monk Weapons +4
18 Secret, Catfall 80
19 Speed of Thought 50
20 Secret, Catfall (any), Trans.
what is notable about this spread is that at every level after 1st, the monk gains some sort of +1 to strike - either BAB (at 2/3/4/6/7/8/10/11/12/14/15/16/18/19/20), or Monk Weapons (at 5/9/13/17)
also, the secrets now alternate with the standard character feats, as it is likely that players will be loyal to the class as a single class and be using those slots to acquire Psionic feats anyhow.
lastly, the Speed of Thought is sort of filler, though it does bring back the old monk's mobility (i have not read the new SOT, i just remember the old 3.X ones as adding to your speed so long as you held focus - i imagine this has not changed drastically if at all)...
and, i tacked on evasion and improved evasion.
lastly, i think you could borrow the idea from the Dabler Mystic Monk about giving DR penetration. maybe this could replace or compliment Speed of Thought?
cheers
...like that Warlock conversion ;)You know I was thinking about you and that Warlock project just yesterday. This must be a sign that it needs completing. XDNow I am sad. Ashiel have never replied to my Revised Warlock for Pathfinder thread. :)
MA
Oh hey Master Arminas. ^.^
I think Kryzbyn was talking about a conversion of the World of Warcraft warlock (basically a fiend-binding mage who uses shadow and fire magics heavily) I was doing on a lark. I put it on hold because I've been busy with other life-things and working on other projects, but it was about 40-60% finished I believe. Kryzbyn declared he would join the Cult of Ashiel if I completed it, so that's probably reason enough that I should. The more the merrier. ^-^
I'll try to check out your 3.5 to PF warlock conversion however! :D
Indeed I was.
I started playing my warlock again in the new expansion, hence me bringing it up again :P
Actually, let me back up and say this (I should have included it as the opening piece of my first post in this thread, but neglected to).
I love the direction you're taking this monk, Ashiel. I've always thought the mechanics of psionics fit the monk concept fairly well, but havent' taken the time to work at it.
I like hwo it's coming together.
Actually, I dont think there are any real dead levels, because you get new power levels as well.
The only level that you do not gain a Secret, Bonus Feat, New Power Level, or new class feature is..
Lv. 8: where you gain your third iterative attack.
I think its a great bit of reasoning really. The issues with the base class was that it didn't conform to the established mechanics of the game. For that reason, the class could never be properly balanced.
Way to go Ashiel.
Ashiel, have you put this build up on the Dreamscarred Press' boards?
Ashiel, have you put this build up on the Dreamscarred Press' boards?
No but I should. Thanks for mentioning that. :o
It'll be a while before I do anything else Archetype conversion-wise. I haven't don much, in a gaming sense, since Borderlands 2 came out.
Actually, let me back up and say this (I should have included it as the opening piece of my first post in this thread, but neglected to).
I love the direction you're taking this monk, Ashiel. I've always thought the mechanics of psionics fit the monk concept fairly well, but havent' taken the time to work at it.
I like hwo it's coming together.
I think its a great bit of reasoning really. The issues with the base class was that it didn't conform to the established mechanics of the game. For that reason, the class could never be properly balanced.
Way to go Ashiel.
Thanks guys. :D
Actually, I dont think there are any real dead levels, because you get new power levels as well.
The only level that you do not gain a Secret, Bonus Feat, New Power Level, or new class feature is..
Lv. 8: where you gain your third iterative attack.
Yay! Thanks for pointing that out Brambleman. ^-^
I know my group has been pretty happy with it so far. Now if I can just manage to get time to play my monk (I'm sort of playtesting this incarnation myself, though the old version was playtested by the resident monk-fanboy in the group, and his reaction could be summarized as "squeee").
It'll be a while before I do anything else Archetype conversion-wise. I haven't don much, in a gaming sense, since Borderlands 2 came out.
No problem man. That game looks awesome. I wouldn't mind picking it up myself. Is it still 2 player offline co-op?
It'll be a while before I do anything else Archetype conversion-wise. I haven't don much, in a gaming sense, since Borderlands 2 came out.No problem man. That game looks awesome. I wouldn't mind picking it up myself. Is it still 2 player offline co-op?
Yes indeed. Game's amazing. New DLC's coming out on the 16th too. A new class/character named Gaige, the Mechromancer.
I have done a new monk revision the martial mystic monk if you care to take a look-see.
MA
Tels and Ashiel Borderlands 2 is awesome fun! And Ashiel, it's 2 player offline plus you can do 2 players offline with another online (or 2 others online).
Can't wait for Mechromancer.
I'm deliriously happy that Cherami Leigh is voicing Gaige. I'm really interested in her Skill tree though, it sounds very different from the norm.
So, I've been reading this for a while, and I just realized something. The two Monk prestige classes released with Paths of Prestige both specify that a couple of their class abilities can use or require Ki Points. For example, Brother of the Seal has a thing where you can use either daily uses of Stunning Fist or Ki Points to power Awesome Blow. In such cases, would this variant of Monk use Power Points at a 1-to-1 ratio to power these abilities, or would it be a slightly altered ratio? I'm kinda wondering because I'm thinking of using this Monk in a campaign sometime, and they'll eventually become a Brother of the Seal.
So, I've been reading this for a while, and I just realized something. The two Monk prestige classes released with Paths of Prestige both specify that a couple of their class abilities can use or require Ki Points. For example, Brother of the Seal has a thing where you can use either daily uses of Stunning Fist or Ki Points to power Awesome Blow. In such cases, would this variant of Monk use Power Points at a 1-to-1 ratio to power these abilities, or would it be a slightly altered ratio? I'm kinda wondering because I'm thinking of using this Monk in a campaign sometime, and they'll eventually become a Brother of the Seal.
Hmm, several things about the Brother of the Seal would need to be re-written for the prestige class to work with Ashiel's Monk class.
A Brother of the Seal's class levels stack with any monk levels for the purposes of determining his flurry of blows, stunning fist, monk training class features, and ki strike, if the monk possesses that Secret.
At 4th level, a Brother of the Seal gains Awesome Blow as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites, adding his Wisdom Modifier on awesome blow combat maneuvers and dealing damage equal to that of his unarmed strike plus any applicable modifiers. Hardness ignored by the Brother of the Seal's water splitting stone ability applies when determining damage dealt to an obstacle while using an awesome blow combat maneuver.
A Brother of the Seal can expend 4 Power Points or one use of Stunning Fist in conjunction with this ability to affect a creature of his own size with an awesome blow, or 8 Power Points or 2 uses of Stunning fist to affect a creature one size larger. Using Stunning Fist of Power Points in this fashion has no effect other than increasing the size of the monster he can affect with his awesome blow.
At 8th level, a Brother of the Seal can affect creatures up to his size with his Awesome Blow feat without expending a use of Stunning Fist of Power Points. In addition, he may affect a creature of any size larger than itself by spending 4 Power Points or one use of Stunning Fist per size category of difference.
Also, I would change the spells Hold Portal and Arcane Lock (both from Gatekeeper) and Dispel Magic (from Unsealing) to the Psionic equivalent just for the sake of consistency.
So, I've been reading this for a while, and I just realized something. The two Monk prestige classes released with Paths of Prestige both specify that a couple of their class abilities can use or require Ki Points. For example, Brother of the Seal has a thing where you can use either daily uses of Stunning Fist or Ki Points to power Awesome Blow. In such cases, would this variant of Monk use Power Points at a 1-to-1 ratio to power these abilities, or would it be a slightly altered ratio? I'm kinda wondering because I'm thinking of using this Monk in a campaign sometime, and they'll eventually become a Brother of the Seal.
There is no clear conversion rate between monk ki points and power points. Ki points are all supposedly equal in their use (they're not, but theoretically). Monks get 1 additional ki point every 2 levels. Psionic monks get power points based on an expanding formula (with stronger powers using more juice). This allows them to choose between doing minor things constantly or major things periodically.
If you wanted to try and directly convert those abilities to PP value, you'd need to estimate what an equivalent power level would be. For example, something on the same lines as a 1st level power might cost 1 PP, while something on the lines of a 3rd level power should cost 5 PP.
IMHO, the simplest way to just drag and drop archtypes would be to assume any archtype that requires Ki points grants Ki points for their abilities. That would save you the effort of trying to fit the square in the triangle and theoretically wouldn't add much more bookkeeping than tracking ammo or bombs alongside your spells (if anything, psionics should cut down on your bookkeeping significantly, since tracking PP is as easy as tracking HP).