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I guess I'm looking to be sold on pathfinder society organized play. What are the advantages over getting 3-5 other people together and just running a game? How do the scenarios stack up against modules, APs, and homebrews? Are the limitations on PFS play that noticeable? I understand that my beloved crafter wizard has no place here, but are there any other common builds that don't work/aren't allowed? Why always levels 1-12?
Any input is appreciated, as I have a minimal understanding of society play.
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My regular group splintered. I live on a military post where getting a group of the same four or five people together more than once a month is impossible.
PFS lets me set up a four to five hour block of gaming without having to worry about getting the same few people together every time. It's a TV movie as opposed to a TV series. And I can go anywhere in the country and find a session somewhere, or set my own up.
It doesn't have the depth of a home campaign. But you can add depth as you go. It doesn't give the satisfaction of a LotR trilogy, but it does give you a solid paperback.
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The biggest advantage of PFS for me is that it's asynchronous. By which I mean that I don't need to commit myself to playing every week, and yet I can still keep playing with the same PC over time (instead of coming up with a new PC every time I play a one-shot game).
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What those guys said and also...
Organized play is only one aspect of Tabletop RPG's, don't feel restricted to one or the other. If you can get a good group of people together on a regular basis, make a home game. In addition to your home game, find some Society games near you and bring a couple of your friends from the home game.
Then later on when a convention or big game day comes up you and a few of your buddies can take a road trip and meet some more people.
Organized play offers flexibility with regard to game offerings while imposing some minor nuances to keep a level playing field across the board. Use of scenarios is key to this flexibility due to thier shorter running length. However, there are quite a few modules that can be run for credit like a scenario, though there are some limitations. You can always use the modules for home games since there is typically more time to play through them.
I'm not real sure about the level cap, but I think it has to do with the difficulty of writing a scenario for characters of thise levels that will neatly fit into a 4 hour time slot. Additionally, at higher levels you have to introduce higher wealth and the characters start to take over the leadership roles that the NPC's normally hold.
*Anyone want to join The Ten?*
As i write this I also find myself thinking that a lot of scenarios are already being made to cover the ranks between levels 1 and 12, and can only imagine the burden of making even more tiers.
Anyway, those are the thoughts of an old sailor, please correct me if you know a better answer, and I hope you find the niche you prefer Riuken. Home game or Organized Play, if you're not having fun then you should probably try something else.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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The main perks of PFS compared to home play could be summed up as follows:
• Portability
• Modularity
• Sociability
Portability:
With a home game, your character stays in the campaign he was made for. If you want to play him in another game, you have to (1) find such a game, (2) hope they have room for you, (3) hope adding you won't disrupt the game, and (4) hope all the pieces of that PC are legal in that campaign. With a PFS character, you could travel halfway around the world, find a game, and play your character. Did your schedule change? Did you move? Did something else happen that you can't play when/where you used to? In a home campaign, you're done. With PFS, you find a new place/time and keep playing the same character(s).
Modularity:
There are definite advantages to playing self-contained scenarios instead of an ongoing campaign. If you miss a week or a month or whatever, you can still come back and just jump right in. Nobody's story gets disrupted by a player's absence. Similarly, if you need a break from one character or want to test out some New Shiny, you can just do it, instead of hoping to remember when you start a new campaign a year later. Want to try GMing, but don't want to commit to a long campaign? PFS has you covered. Like to GM, but need a break once in a while? Take a PC that you've been applying GM credit to and play a few times! Harder to do that in a home game, due to continuity issues.
Sociability:
A regular game night with a set group of friends is great. What's also great is getting to go and meet new people. With PFS, you never know who you'll be playing with, so you get to make new friends, see new ideas and playstyles, and generally get "un-stagnated". I personally feel like sometimes long-time home-gamers (i.e., played with the same group/groups for decades) sometimes end up with an "inbred" sense of how the game is supposed to go, and can be a tad xenophobic. PFS freshens up the hobby and provides great social opportunities. Heck, you could even find a new player for your home group after meeting them through PFS!
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Now, these three points won't be valuable for everyone. Someone who doesn't travel and game, has a reliable home group, likes longer stories and doesn't get burned out, and enjoys the private niche version of Pathfinder they've developed for themselves; they won't have much interest in PFS, most likely. And that's totally fine. :) But if the items I listed have value to you, then PFS might be just what you're looking for!
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To cover some of the OP's questions form the thread that spawned this thread, some of the restrictions are flavor (no Undead Lord Clerics, for example) and some are due to issues with the banned item (Wild Rager may work fine in a home group, where you can build the other PCs to be able to deal with it, but having a PC at an ever-changing kaleidoscope of PCs who can wind up taking a wack at his friendly, low-Con caster buddy can be a bad thing.)
Crafting, as in magic item crafting, is banned because of a few issues that have been seen with it in other organized play campaigns in the past.
1) XP costs don't work right when you have 3 XP per level, instead of thousands.
2) Crafting time is nulled when the timne between scenarios is undefined. Other OP campaigns have had various ways of tracking the time spent for various things (including adventuring) during each campaign year, but that has never been popular. Run out of time units (or equivalent) and your PC can no longer be used until next August? Ugly. Especially if that happens to your only character in a tier, or you run out of TUs in the middle of an adventure series. Can you imagine running out of TUs in the middle of the Eyes of the Ten retirement scenario arc?
3) When magic item crafting is included, paperwork for each character in an organized play campaign multiplies. One sheet for tracking items built. One per item, or X items per sheet? GM sign-offs on items crafted.
This can also lead to an expendable item tracking sheet. Another ugly thing. For a single potion, not bad, but tracking arrows? Yeesh.
Overall, magic item crafting leads to a heck of a lot of extra paperwork for OP. And can easily screen WbL calculations, to the point where a crafting Wizard could easily start soloing adventures "at level".
At least, overall, item access is fairly straightforward in PFS. Always Available, and things that require X amount of Fame, and a few (for now) oddities only available through Chronicle sheets. And a chance at early access to items limited by Fame off of Chronciles, as well.
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I play in a number of home games / home campaigns; I also play in PFS (and have played in other Organized Play campaigns for over a decade).
As others have already noted, the two types of play serve different sorts of needs. In my case, I'm the DM for most of my home games. Playing in an OP campaign gives me a chance to actually be a player. I can play the same character at local OP events, and then take that character with me to play at a big convention, like GenCon or Origins.
Some of the other players in my home groups also play in OP campaigns, but most don't, and have no interest in it. I'd probably never try to convert one of my home game groups to play an OP campaign instead of our own stuff (most of which we write ourselves, or use longer-form published adventures, such as APs); OP is not really the same kind of beast, and its advantages don't really suit a stable home game group.
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As others have already noted, the two types of play serve different sorts of needs. In my case, I'm the DM for most of my home games. Playing in an OP campaign gives me a chance to actually be a player. I can play the same character at local OP events, and then take that character with me to play at a big convention, like GenCon or Origins.
Some of the other players in my home groups also play in OP campaigns, but most don't, and have no interest in it. I'd probably never try to convert one of my home game groups to play an OP campaign instead of our own stuff (most of which we write ourselves, or use longer-form published adventures, such as APs); OP is not really the same kind of beast, and its advantages don't really suit a stable home game group.
wow Mike... this pretty much sums up exactly me as well :)
Addressing this quick tho:
Why always levels 1-12?
High-level play gets pretty crazy. Pathfinder scenarios are written to be run in 4-hour slots. Past level 12, combat takes a crazy amount of time longer, and its just not conducive to organized play. It's hard to audit characters if needed, and the power creep is pretty high.
On the other hand, just FYI, 12 is not a hard limit. There is a special set of scenarios commonly referred to as the retirement arc, where you play it at 12th and 13th level. After that, all the newer Pathfinder Modules are sanctioned for play, so you can play higher level modules such as Academy of Secrets and The Moonscar for PFS credit.
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my biggest + for OP Campaigns is - grab your character, head out of state ... sit down at table ... meet other players ... or for Conventions which follow the Same principle ..
That's my thing right there. I never would have traveled to Origins and met my circle of gaming friends if it weren't for PFS. I never would have done 1/2 of what I've done in the gaming world in the last 3 years had it not been for PFS.
The sense of community you can get from being able to share stories that are similar (point for running raw) or how flavor enhanced a specific scenario for you are priceless and wonderful
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I haven't had a stable home group for years. It really cut down on my gaming time and every 6 to 18 months I needed to find a new group.
Joining OP let me play regularly, depending just on my schedule. I play maybe 4 to 8 times as much and when I have free time I can drive a bit and play the whole weekend if I want.
Plus there is NO DRAMA. Avoiding the crazy dm or unstable wife is so so calming. I cannot emphasize how great this is.
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
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my biggest + for OP Campaigns is - grab your character, head out of state ... sit down at table ... meet other players ... or for Conventions which follow the Same principle ..
This.
I have a character that I first played while visiting Jiggy in Minnesota, then played while staying with my parents in Missouri, visiting my brothers in another part of Missouri, on a business trip to Charlotte, at a sporadic game in Virginia, at conventions in Georgia, Tennessee, and North Carolina. That's 7 different cities in 6 different states.
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Plus there is NO DRAMA. Avoiding the crazy dm or unstable wife is so so calming. I cannot emphasize how great this is.
IME, I wouldn't say that there's *no* drama, but it's far less than what you can run into with a home group.
I've played with, literally, many hundreds of different people at OP games over the past 11 years. I've played with some outstanding players, a lot of just nice people...and a few real problem children (argumentative rules lawyers, bad personalities, awful personal hygiene, completely uninvolved in the game, etc.).
Generally, it's rare that you have to put up with a particular problem child in OP more than once or twice; the few exceptions who come to mind have a tendency to become kind of infamous in their local gaming communities (those of you who played Greyhawk or Arcanis in my area are probably, right now, thinking of the same person I am... ;-) )
OTOH, I've had home groups with big-time drama, as the Kender notes: the player who's disruptive or makes some other players uncomfortable, but he's been a friend (and in the group) for a long time, so no one has the heart (or guts) to confront him. As the DM, that dirty work seems to always fall to me. :-P
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I never would have traveled to Origins and met my circle of gaming friends if it weren't for PFS. I never would have done 1/2 of what I've done in the gaming world in the last 3 years had it not been for PFS.
Agreed; through my play in the RPGA (and, now, PFS), I've met a number of great people from all over. Some of my best friends are other players whom I met via OP games.
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I never would have traveled to Origins and met my circle of gaming friends if it weren't for PFS. I never would have done 1/2 of what I've done in the gaming world in the last 3 years had it not been for PFS.Agreed; through my play in the RPGA (and, now, PFS), I've met a number of great people from all over. Some of my best friends are other players whom I met via OP games.
Adding Mike (and Thea) to my "+1 list" from above.
Conventions of all sizes (I've been to Gen Con, PaizoCon, and myriad local cons since picking up organized play) give a PFS player a chance to sit at a table with six or seven people whom they've never met, have an immediate common theme, interact starting off with that theme, and just roll from there. It is very different from a set gaming group, and doesn't have quite the same story immersion; but it's much less reliant on herding all those set gaming group cats each and every session.
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What are the advantages over getting 3-5 other people together and just running a game?
When you can only game once a month (or less) with an inconsistent group of people. I'd rather play once every 4 weeks with whoever is available, rather than every 6-8 weeks with everyone. It's good for people with limited time.
See the previous thread on this topic here.
Another benefit is that after 4-5 hours you walk away feeling you accomplished something. That wasn't always the case in some campaigns. PFS pushes you to get stuff done.
It also allows you to play Pathfinder and your favorite PC at most conventions.
How do the scenarios stack up against modules, APs, and homebrews?
It's better in some ways and worse in others.
I like seeing a variety of GM styles, I like seeing a variety of players. I learn something at many tables. Seeing the community is also great, it's a nice change from seeing the same players week-after-week.
I'm going say this, "PFS is what you make it". If you want something in PFS to bother you, it will bother you. If try to make PFS work, then it will be fun for you.
PFS is definitely an adjustment and it took me a while to be comfortable gaming outside my home group. But in the end it makes you a better GM/player.
Are the limitations on PFS play that noticeable?
It's what you make it. I've run dozens of campaigns in my life and honestly the game is better off without PVP and evil PCs.
The only other thing you're missing is crafting, but it's not there for obvious reasons. Personally I like that there's no crafting, because you focus more on the action rather than the magic shop.
I understand that my beloved crafter wizard has no place here, but are there any other common builds that don't work/aren't allowed?
Evil classes like Assassin.
Why always levels 1-12?
Sanctioned modules can take you beyond 12, you'll eventually be able to go to level 20. Right now it's still rare to see level 12+ PCs.
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I much prefer a regular group of players in a homebrew campaign of my own design, which is tailored to the characters being played and their players. Unfortunately, it's difficult to keep a group of 4-5 players together and on the same schedule of free time to play each or every other weekend. The last group we only played maybe once each 1-2 months. So my wife and I opted into PFS at a convention and have been playing that ever since (in addition to our irregular home games).
The specific advantages I've found in PFS, at least in regard to the public gatherings, are numerous. There's the social aspect of being able to meet so many new people and play with all of them, if not at the same time. There's the wonderful aspect of not necessarily having the same GM every time and you can see how different ones handle tricky aspects of each scenario (handy for active GMs looking for tips or advice). There's the flexibility of having sudden plans and not feeling guilty for not showing up one week (unannounced even), and also of having other plans fall through and still have a weekend game that always has room for a few more players. And speaking of flexibility, you are never stuck with just one characters; if you get tired of playing the wizard, you can roll up a rogue or fighter to play once or twice then return to your wizard later and no one bats an eye.
For GMs it's also a treat. Never GMed before and want to give it a try? Do it! Maybe it's not for you, but PFS makes an ideal environment to try it out. Are you usually the GM at your home games and feel you never get to play? Here's your chance!
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PFS is great for my gaming group. There are 25 or so of us college students and only one person (ME) who is ever willing to be the full time GM. Obviously this doesn't work, since the ratio's a little off... (1 GM to 25 players, aw yeah).
So instead PFS allows me to hand newer players single scenarios, and let them take the job of GMing. It's a great way to distribute the experience, and allows for scaling as sometimes we get anywhere from 2 tables to 5 tables on a given gaming night.