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Catching a slope while falling, or catching a falling party member, requires such a steep DC that most people probably can't do it anyway, with or without shields.
Besides, light shields explicitly leave that hand free to do anything other than wield another weapon, so he'd be no more hindered than any other sword-and-board fighter.
Also, I laughed hard at "Now that there are ninjas, the party rogue exist to feed me potions." I can't help but imagine a halfling in leather armor, carrying a fistful of colonoscopy bags in one hand and a catheter in the other.
I have a character who uses two round shields. One for throwing when the need comes up while still maintaining his defense. There is a shield trick feat that allows you to use them as ranged weapons and it has proven very useful for my Captain Andoran. lol
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The Shield Master feat cannot be taken until level 11. Fighting with two shields before then is sub-optimal (I know, right!), but you don't need to.
Just build a TWFer as normal, making sure that your 10th level will also be an even-numbered fighter class level. At 10th level, use the bonus fighter feat to gain Improved Shield Bash (you'll already have shield proficiency and the TWF line of feats), and re-train a now useless fighter bonus feat you chose previously to gain Shield Slam. When you level up (assuming all your classes get +1 BA/lvl) you qualify for Shield Master and have a feat you can spend!
Use level 10 to obtain two +5 heavy quickdraw shields and by 11th level you rule!
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It also wouldn't be a bad idea to carry around a backup sword or other weapon. Just in case you need to wedge something into a hole in the ground for people to walk over (instead of having the heavily-armoured, low-strength dwarven cleric jump it), or to jam the spinning gears that are sending a portcullis crashing to the ground. You'll still be able to TWF if you lose one shield, but the weapon would be your backup option.
(Even better, Bluff or Intimidate as you draw your sword while saying something like, "Okay, now I'll go at it for real!")
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Wait. Dual wield quickdraw shields.
You have the Quick Draw feat, so you may don or put away a quickdraw shield as a free action.
You pull out a shield, hit with it, put it away. You do this with both hands.
You never even have two shields out at the same time.
Nobody even looks at you funny walking around.
Metal Beard guy with the Ladder still looks funny though.
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Still, the idea of a twin Klar style seems pretty awesome.
A 'great klar' that combines a heavy shield with a short sword sized blade could be cool. Wearing that on your primary arm, and a normal klar on your off-hand, and describing your fighting style as 'stone crab style' or something (since you'd appear like a crab, with one 'claw' larger than the other), might even work thematically.
I have a friend that dual wields shields, but he uses them to protect his allies from harm more than anything else. I forget the feats and such, but he grants people near him AC and protects them. No one really has an issue with it. especially when you are saving lives. Of all the disruptive things that could garner negative reactions(Drow/tiefling player characters, evil characters, the Eidolon/crazy animal companion, Paladins), this seems the tamest.
See two shield fighting here.
This is awesome!
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Yes.
I have been obviously hinting at how silly it is to get worked up about this.
Eh. I get where they are coming from.
While I like *this* particular bit of silliness, I get all face-twitchy and irrational when faced with stuff that *I* consider physically impossible, like an effective 'spiked chain' weapon that doesn't get itself all snarled and twisted and fouled in it's own barbs and hooks.
And, whether or not 'two shield fighting' was more common IRL than 'double swords' or 'double axes' or 'dire flails' or people 'dervish dancing' with a pair of scimitars or a farmer's scythe being potentially the deadliest of all melee weapons, it's still something that was pretty darn rare.
That some have picked *this* particular line in the sand to make their stand, instead of a dozen, IMO, vastly more ludicrous items in core (not even considering the intentionally ludicrous Gnomes of Golarion weapons), is just an oddity.
That being said, the rules mechanics for shields do get wonky when dealing with shields as primary weapons, or multiple shields in use by a single character (which has been around in concept since 1st edition, thanks to the Aspis ant-men in the Slave Lords modules, using two shields).
Now that Golarion has races with more than two arms, some sort of actual mechanical / design thought is probably warranted for how a shield bonus stacks with itself in the hands of a Shobhad who chooses to equip a pair of shields and a pair of blades (or a pair of shields and a long rifle or two-handed polearm). With the option for a player to make a humanoid Eidolon with four, six, etc. arms, there's also a possibility for a plain old two-armed PC to have need for a ruling on whether or not his conjured gumby can equip two (or more!) shields effectively. (The existence of awakened fiendish Girallons in service to Anghazan in the Mwangi Expanse also makes this something that a GM could take advantage of, to the displeasure of their players...)
For that matter, a Shobhad or Thri-Kreen or Formian gladiator / hive defender / whatever using four spiked shields could be a sight to see...
Stealing an idea from City of Heroes, an alien gladiator of this sort might even carry a pair of triangular blade-edged shields that can be locked together into a tower shield as a move action, to provide temporary cover, and then broken apart for offensive use.
Well, it is more than established that the shield bonus to AC does not stack.
Why this weapon?
Why is this weapon the one that leaves people with bloody inner thighs, and foaming mouths?
Verisimilitude.
Personally, I treat verisimilitude like an obnoxious drinking buddy. Keep him around until he starts impeding my fun, then put him to bed when I've had enough.
Preferably on his side so he doesn't go the way of John Bonham
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Verisimilitude is actually easily achieved with this weapon.
Tons of others are near verisimilitude breakers in themselves.
There are more real examples in using this weapon, and should support verisimilitude.
It is like saying that I don't believe a weapon should work this way, because it does not work that way in my favorite video game.
It's broken verisimilitude based off false pretenses that irks folks?
Metal beards man.
Yes.
I have been obviously hinting at how silly it is to get worked up about this.
Eh. I get where they are coming from.
While I like *this* particular bit of silliness, I get all face-twitchy and irrational when faced with stuff that *I* consider physically impossible, like an effective 'spiked chain' weapon that doesn't get itself all snarled and twisted and fouled in it's own barbs and hooks.
And, whether or not 'two shield fighting' was more common IRL than 'double swords' or 'double axes' or 'dire flails' or people 'dervish dancing' with a pair of scimitars or a farmer's scythe being potentially the deadliest of all melee weapons, it's still something that was pretty darn rare.
That some have picked *this* particular line in the sand to make their stand, instead of a dozen, IMO, vastly more ludicrous items in core (not even considering the intentionally ludicrous Gnomes of Golarion weapons), is just an oddity.
Yeah, I drew my line before any of that. Spiked chain, et al. I just don't "foam" or have "bloody thighs". Multiple degrees in history and a background that includes plenty of time playing historical miniatures and hanging out with reenactors will do that for you. I don't find it game breaking, just a bit silly. But then, there's game RAW and RL. Two seperate things.
What always makes me chuckle is that one of the stated goals of 3.x was to simplify the, they thought, overly complex aspects of tactical combat that had developed in 2E. And they did. They have since complicated it again with too many variations in weapons, imaginary / fantastic weapons, and feats up the wazoo. Not that any of it is terribly "realistic" of course, but it, the game that is, has gone all the way round to the start...
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Ooh, was just reminded of another of my fantasy-weapon-related irrational peeves. Chakram, sharpened metal frisbees, do more damage than hunga-munga/kpinga/throwing irons, which are terrifying spiky bits of ironmongery that weigh three times as much and cost four times as much.
Such a great injustice!
Ooh, was just reminded of another of my fantasy-weapon-related irrational peeves. Chakram, sharpened metal frisbees, do more damage than hunga-munga/kpinga/throwing irons, which are terrifying spiky bits of ironmongery that weigh three times as much and cost four times as much.
Such a great injustice!
Well chakrams were used widely in India, both to throw and dismember. They are really sharp too. So it is a bit more than just a "metallic frisbee" ;)
Course, it's really hard to approximate a weapon's damage into dice :p
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Tangent: people quote James Jacobs like crazy, unless he writes that dual wielding shields is silly and shouldn't be a thing.
Oh well.
Yeah.
In the beginning of his "Ask James Jacobs" thread, he notes he is not a rules guy.
See, that's what's funny.
When it's convenient, folks take his posts and beat others to death with it. (eg: the AoMF post).
When it's not convenient, folks say "he's not a rules guy, his posts are irrelevant".
Not aimed at anybody in particular, but it's funny how it turns out.
Considering he is responsible for making the bard into my favorite class (something me from 10 years ago would have balked at), James's comments will always carry weight with me as much as the Bullman's :)
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See, that's what's funny.
When it's convenient, folks take his posts and beat others to death with it. (eg: the AoMF post).
When it's not convenient, folks say "he's not a rules guy, his posts are irrelevant".
Not aimed at anybody in particular, but it's funny how it turns out.
Had anyone in this thread, other than you, referenced James' position on the subject (one way or the other)? I'll admit, I didn't pay attention, 'cause I'm not that sensitive to some things. All I'm seeing is someone on page 1 mentioning that James stated that the damage from shield spikes and the damage bumps from the bashing property shouldn't stack.
I mean, I don't get the love 'some people' have for modrons, but nobody was talking about modrons, so I guess that's no more or less relevant than this 'some people quote JJ when they agree with him and dismiss him when they don't' pet peeve of yours. Especially when you are the one dropping his name in this thread, making you the person who is doing the thing that you find 'funny'...
In comparison to other two weapon fighting builds, you are basically getting a +2 to hit.
Not really. It depends on the other TWF builds. Fighters of the TWF archetype ignore penalties (-1 at 11, when you get Shield Mastery, and 0 at 15).
There's also a magic item that reduces the penalty once per round (duelist vambraces), and probably some other perks I can't remember now.
Tangent: people quote James Jacobs like crazy, unless he writes that dual wielding shields is silly and shouldn't be a thing.
Oh well.
Yeah.
In the beginning of his "Ask James Jacobs" thread, he notes he is not a rules guy.
See, that's what's funny.
When it's convenient, folks take his posts and beat others to death with it. (eg: the AoMF post).
When it's not convenient, folks say "he's not a rules guy, his posts are irrelevant".
Not aimed at anybody in particular, but it's funny how it turns out.
Maybe there's also the fact that some people don't like SKR and would rather go with JJ's words, even if he isn't the rules guy?
That is also true. Doesn't stop a DM from using houserules though.
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My problem with dual shields is that it becomes a great game combo due to the broken Shield Master feat.
My problem with the Shield Master feat is that there are no comparable feats that let you TWF with proper weapons as efficiently.
I want to be able to TWF with a bastard sword in each hand at no TWF penalty, while allowing the magical weapon enhancement bonus from one of them add to my AC as well as to attack and damage rolls, and I want every attack to trigger a free combat manoeuvre without provoking.
Where are the feats that allow this? They don't exist! Wait! I've found one! It's called 'Shield Master'. It lets me do all that stuff and gets me half price magic weapons!
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Samurai Jack briefly dual-wielded shields in one episode. It was awesome.
My problem with dual shields is that it becomes a great game combo due to the broken Shield Master feat.
My problem with the Shield Master feat is that there are no comparable feats that let you TWF with proper weapons as efficiently.
I want to be able to TWF with a bastard sword in each hand at no TWF penalty, while allowing the magical weapon enhancement bonus from one of them add to my AC as well as to attack and damage rolls, and I want every attack to trigger a free combat manoeuvre without provoking.
Where are the feats that allow this? They don't exist! Wait! I've found one! It's called 'Shield Master'. It lets me do all that stuff and gets me half price magic weapons!
And I want my Large Steel shields to have a 19-20/x2 base crit rating. Alas...
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Samurai Jack briefly dual-wielded shields in one episode. It was awesome.
The Spartan Episode! :)
However, that episode was generally awesome overall, especially when the Spartan picked up Jack's sword and started using it.
==Aelryinth
Several people have alluded to the fighter's (ab)use of the dual-shield fighting technique. Actually I think that it would be even more powerful for a ranger, who can bypass the Dex requirement with his combat style. Also, he would get his favoured enemy bonus when relevant.
Rangers with the Weapon and Shield combat style can also get Shield Master as a bonus feat at level 6 instead of having to wait for +11 BAB.
Weapon and Shield: If the ranger selects weapon and shield style, he can choose from the following list whenever he gains a combat style feat: Improved Shield Bash, Shield Focus, Shield Slam, and Two-Weapon Fighting. At 6th level, he adds Saving Shield* and Shield Master to the list. At 10th level, he adds Bashing Finish* and Greater Shield Focus to the list.
You only get TWF, not ITWF or GTWF, but you get Shield Master at sixth level!
In Plot and Poison - a Guidebook to Drow, from Races of Renown, there's a cool picture of a dual-shield drow on page 99.