I had an entire character concept based on Erastil, but it turns out that the God of Hunting, Farming, and Trade does not have trade as one of his Domains. Is this an error on the prd?
Abadar stole it.
There is no Trade Domain, not everything in a god's portfolio has a Domain (and vice-versa).
There is Trade subdomain for Travel Domain.
It is possible that Erastil is no the god of Trade (goods exchange) but Trade (generic term for professional occupation) - while the subdomain is based represents the first concept, not the second one.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
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There is Trade subdomain for Travel Domain.
It is possible that Erastil is no the god of Trade (goods exchange) but Trade (generic term for professional occupation) - while the subdomain is based represents the first concept, not the second one.
That, or Erastil is the god of Trade on a local scale (take your wheat to market, swap goods with other people in the community, etc), while the Trade Subdomain represents an emphasis on long-distance Trade (travelling from town to town, forming caravans, carrying goods across oceans, etc), hence being part of the Travel Domain.
To answer the OPs basic question though, no, it's not a mistake. To grant the Trade Subdomain, a god needs the Travel domain, and that isn't on Erastil's list.
Same as Cayden not having the Liberation domain, I fear.
There is Trade subdomain for Travel Domain.
It is possible that Erastil is no the god of Trade (goods exchange) but Trade (generic term for professional occupation) - while the subdomain is based represents the first concept, not the second one.
Yeah I should have been clear. I was referring to the Sub-Domain.
It's unfortunate but not the end of the world. Just have to do a quick retcon on the back story.
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There is Trade subdomain for Travel Domain.
It is possible that Erastil is no the god of Trade (goods exchange) but Trade (generic term for professional occupation) - while the subdomain is based represents the first concept, not the second one.
Yeah I should have been clear. I was referring to the Sub-Domain.
It's unfortunate but not the end of the world. Just have to do a quick retcon on the back story.
Or you could speak to the GM and ask if he would allow it. I would.
"Why in the hells would you do that? You don't need to go out and adventure, wife. Your life is here... in the village... with me. Having my children, cooking dinner for me every night?! What- what more fulfilling destiny could possibly await you??? Hah! Oh my dear... *wipes a tear away from his eye* ...you're such a prankster. Ahh.
Ummmm...?
The baby's crying. Don't you think you should do something about that?"
- A faithful Erastilite couple.
"Why in the hells would you do that? You don't need to go out and adventure, wife. Your life is here... in the village... with me. Having my children, cooking dinner for me every night?! What- what more fulfilling destiny could possibly await you??? Hah! Oh my dear... *wipes a tear away from his eye* ...you're such a prankster. Ahh.
Ummmm...?
The baby's crying. Don't you think you should do something about that?"- A faithful Erastilite couple.
My concept was more about the Hunting and the trading aspects but yeah I could see that.
Same as Cayden not having the Liberation domain, I fear.
Umm, Cayden Dailean DOES have Liberation as one of his domains...
Be a separatist.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
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Same as Cayden not having the Liberation domain, I fear.Umm, Cayden Dailean DOES have Liberation as one of his domains...
He used to, but it's been dropped from more recently listings (Inner Sea World Guide, for instance).
IIRC, this was done to bring him back down to 5 domains, to match all the other major deities.
I don't think the situation with Erastil is all that similar though. For one thing, the Travel domain really doesn't fit his portfolio very well.
Be a separatist.
EDIT: This is a good recommendation!
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Same as Cayden not having the Liberation domain, I fear.Umm, Cayden Dailean DOES have Liberation as one of his domains...He used to, but it's been dropped from more recently listings (Inner Sea World Guide, for instance).
IIRC, this was done to bring him back down to 5 domains, to match all the other major deities.
And they couldn't have dropped Chaos, Good or at the very least Travel, if a chaotic good God absolutely needs to have the first two?
Also, "recent" is a bit misleading, Cayden hasn't had Liberation on his domain list since the CRB came out at the very least. Desna has it, who has much less thematic connection to it than Cayden would have.
Oh, well. Nobody said the designers always make good choices.
Erastil is all about tight-knit farming communities (preferably remote ones) that are in touch with nature and rely on themselves, the land, and other nearby Erastil-worshipping villages to provide what they need. The AP that features Erastil as the regional god of choice has recurring themes and flavor of the Erastil domains: Animal, Community, Good, Law, and Plant.
Separatist is a sweet archetype, and gives you alot of options as a cleric if you don't like your diety's domain combos.
I'm surprised by the lack of jokes involving Erastil's clerics and communists.
Then again, we shouldn't throw real life politics into the fray too much, right?
Correct. Besides, the Amish subculture in America is a much better real-life example of what an Erastil community would look like.
Communism is also waaaayyyyyyyy off the mark for a variety of reasons, not the least of which being Erastil would not let a cult of personality rip apart the communities he actually wants to see flourish. He'd strip "that guy" of his spells and powers, and the next day a gargantuan magic glowing white dire elk would run him out of town and send him on his way at 2 hitpoints.
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If you've never read Erastil's opinions of other gods in the first Kingmaker book, I'd strongly recommend it. It's more than a little hilarious. His description of Iomedae is essentially "She's a good girl, but she really just needs to find a man to settle down with."
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And that is a little more than just mildly chauvinistic, don't you think?
Nothing wrong with a little chauvinism, chauvinism doesn't mean it's not LG. Besides, the primary difference between chivalry and chauvinism is attitude & delivery.
Chivalry: "Allow me to open the door for you madam, you shouldn't have to do such things".
Chauvinism: "I'll open the door for you madam, I know you feeble women need what help you can get."
Discrimination (of any kind) isn't very good-aligned behaviour. Just saying something as infallible as a deity infused with the essence of goodness being something as damnable as a chauvinist in a setting where the two genders are more or less equal (unlike in this world) is kinda hard to buy. I find being an LG chauvinist as hard to imagine as an LG racist, specieist or homophobe.
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Chivalry: "Allow me to open the door for you madam, you shouldn't have to do such things".
Chauvinism: "I'll open the door for you madam, I know you feeble women need what help you can get."
Gender equality: "It's your turn to risk your life in case our thief failed to find the trap. Again."
Egalitarianism isn't very lawful-aligned behavior. The "L" in "LG" means that they're going to have strong opinions about a properly-ordered society. The "G" is the difference between supporting traditional gender roles, and supporting brutal exploitation of the underclass(es).
And when in our own history has the Gods been completely infallible? I'm looking at you Zeus! :)
The way I see the whole "Iomedae needs to find a man to settle down with," is the same way I see my parents wanting me to settle down with a nice Puerto Rican girl. It's not racism (at the very least, not meant to be hateful), but their traditional values kicking in. While I may not agree, I don't see it as hate. It's the same way I see his 'chauvenism'. It's not 'women are weak' or 'inferior' but part of his own traditional ways.
Besides I like my gods to have flaws. Makes them more interesting.
Just saying something as infallible as a deity infused with the essence of goodness being something as damnable as a chauvinist in a setting where the two genders are more or less equal (unlike in this world) is kinda hard to buy.
Who said these gods were infallible?
These multi-deistic pantheons tend to be VERY flawed individuals. Look at the greek/roman/norse pantheons... they tended to smite a girl because 'someone else' said she was prettier then them...
A lot of these gods were mortal once, and seem to care about the same things and same philosophys they did WHILE they mortal... Having extra awesome power... doesn't make you less of a jerk ;)
As for Elastil and trade... I was just reading faits of purity, and really saw nothing there that would indicate he cared about trade. He's all about community and tight knit families... They even call him out about being GREAT for defending the homestead... but if a problem happens too far from home, he doesn't care.
So travel from town to town isn't a big concern of his...
Gender equality: "It's your turn to risk your life in case our thief failed to find the trap. Again."Chivalry: "Allow me to open the door for you madam, you shouldn't have to do such things".
Chauvinism: "I'll open the door for you madam, I know you feeble women need what help you can get."
Omg, i just snorted beer out my nose!
The way I see the whole "Iomedae needs to find a man to settle down with," is the same way I see my parents wanting me to settle down with a nice Puerto Rican girl. It's not racism (at the very least, not meant to be hateful), but their traditional values kicking in. While I may not agree, I don't see it as hate. It's the same way I see his 'chauvinism'. It's not 'women are weak' or 'inferior' but part of his own traditional ways.
Besides I like my gods to have flaws. Makes them more interesting.
I might have been wrong about the "flawed deities" thing, but I sure as hell would prefer that deities of all alignments had their flaws, and not just the good-aligned ones.
And no offense, but you really seem to have a naive view on racism and chauvinism. Chauvinism (which borders on misogynism in most cases) is technically a traditional value ("men are TRADITIONALLY better than women"), just as racism (which ranges from namecalling all the way to murder) was the "traditional value" of favouring one's own race and openly showing your dislike for "outsiders", but just because one follows a tradition does not mean that said tradition is good, or that said traditionalist is a good guy. I wonder if you've ever seen the darker sides of chauvinism and/or racism in real life, because it really seems to me like you haven't.
You don't think Zon-kuthon is flawed enough? =)
Would one consider Asmodeus' raging misogyny a flaw?
Oh look, another Erastil thread that was not at all about his dogma being degraded and derailed into yet another whinefest about him being a misogynistic old codger.
It happens every time he is brought up, it seems.
And for future reference. Erastil is sexist, Asmodeus is misogynistic.
Also, does it count as a retcon that Erastil is no longer considered a deity of trade?
I feel like making a thread about all the retcons that have happened so far. Should be interesting.
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Would one consider Asmodeus' raging misogyny a flaw?
Sure, he could find so many more allies/pawns if he treated women seriously.
Also, his raging misogyny is a great argument for pro-female goddesses out there (including Lamashtu) to rally people against him and sway believers away from his influence.
Of course, Big A likely thinks it's all irrelevant nonsense. But overconfidence is another flaw of his.
His fear of Rovagug breaking out from imprisonment and OM NOM NOM NOMing Asmo as a first priority might be considered one, too.
Then again, Rovagug wants to eat EVERYONE. I wonder if he'd chew himself out after killing everything else.
He wouldn't be the avatar of Destruction if he didn't intend to.
The way I see the whole "Iomedae needs to find a man to settle down with," is the same way I see my parents wanting me to settle down with a nice Puerto Rican girl. It's not racism (at the very least, not meant to be hateful), but their traditional values kicking in. While I may not agree, I don't see it as hate. It's the same way I see his 'chauvinism'. It's not 'women are weak' or 'inferior' but part of his own traditional ways.
Besides I like my gods to have flaws. Makes them more interesting.
I might have been wrong about the "flawed deities" thing, but I sure as hell would prefer that deities of all alignments had their flaws, and not just the good-aligned ones.
And no offense, but you really seem to have a naive view on racism and chauvinism. Chauvinism (which borders on misogynism in most cases) is technically a traditional value ("men are TRADITIONALLY better than women"), just as racism (which ranges from namecalling all the way to murder) was the "traditional value" of favouring one's own race and openly showing your dislike for "outsiders", but just because one follows a tradition does not mean that said tradition is good, or that said traditionalist is a good guy. I wonder if you've ever seen the darker sides of chauvinism and/or racism in real life, because it really seems to me like you haven't.
I can assure you, having been put into the hospital for dating a white girl, I have seen the darker sides of racism. In fact, it's probably why racial slurs don't offend me. I've dealt with worse. Nothing says I hate you than three 'good ol boys' taking the boots and bats to you in a trailer park.
And evil deities have their flaws. Asmodeus has pride and arrogence, Rovagug is... Rovagug. Lamashtu is a difficult one for me to pen down.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
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Also, does it count as a retcon that Erastil is no longer considered a deity of trade?
I feel like making a thread about all the retcons that have happened so far. Should be interesting.
Who says he's not a deity of trade anymore? What, because he doesn't have a subdomain of a domain (Travel) that really doesn't fit his portfolio at all?
Where you have farmers, you have farmer's markets. That's trade.
There is precedent in Chapter 3 of the Jade Regent Adventure Path of someone having a subdomain despite the 'deity' not actually having access to it.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
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There is precedent in Chapter 3 of the Jade Regent Adventure Path of someone having a subdomain despite the 'deity' not actually having access to it.
** spoiler omitted **
Ah, but it's not a precedent, since Erastil predates that decision. When subdomains first came out, they were still limiting them to the deity's base domains, so it made sense to leave Trade off his list.
In a later book, they decided to make an exception to this rule.
It might be a precedent for changing Erastil's subdomains, but that would be a ret-con/revision. Also, it seems like more trouble than it's worth. You'd need to add a sidebar to the APG saying what domain ability the Trade ability replaces, and you'd open the door to all the other deities wanting to switch subdomains, and it just turns into a great big mess.
Besides, my point was that Erastil doesn't need to have the Trade Subdomain to be a god of trade. He just thinks locally, not globally.