Right now my human fey bloodline sorcerer just hit level 13 and I'm in the process of picking feats. I'm trying to decide if it's worth getting Spell Perfection at level 15 and what spell I would associate with it here are my lists of feats and spells:
Feats:
Combat Casting
Cosmopolitan
Improved Initiative
Spell Focus: Enchantment
Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment
Spell Focus: Evocation
Persistant Spell
Extend Spell
Spells:
0th: Detect Magic, Message, Mage Hand, Prestidigitation, Mending, Light, Ray of Frost, Resistance, Read Magic
1st: Mage Armor, Shield, Magic Missle, Charm Person, Feather Fall, Grease, Hydraulic Push, Burning Hands, Protection From Evil, Entangle
2nd: See Invisibility, Resist Energy, Hideous Laughter, Flaming Sphere, Mirror Image, Invisibility, Alter Self, Scorching Ray
3rd: Fireball, Fly, Suggestion, Deep Slumber, Dispel Magic, Haste, Resist Energy Communal
4th: Confusion, Elemental Body I, Acid Pit, Freedom of Movement, Dragon's Breath, Tongues Communal
5th: Commune with Nature, Teleport, Feeblemind, Dominate Person
6th: Sirocco
I have yet to pick my spells for 13th level as I am undecided. The only spell I know I'm going to take for sure is Telekinesis. I'm leaning toward Disintegrate for my 6th level spell but have no idea what to take for my other 5th and my 4th.
I think you need 3 metamagic feats to qualify for Spell Perfection, so far you only have two.
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What stuff do you do with your character? I'd assume you were an Enchanter, as you're a Fey Bloodline Sorcerer with Spell Focus and Greater Spel Focus in the school, but I don't really see that many compulsion effects on your list of spells known, and you haven't been setting yourself up to take Threnodic Spell.
Do you have access to all the Pathfinder source books (Core, APG, UM, UC)?
Level 13 is a good level to start deciding this stuff, as you're receiving two feats. I'd recommend going with Quicken Spell for your Bloodline Feat, and ... well, honestly I'm a little torn on what to suggest for your standard feat.
If you're going to take Spell Perfection at 15th level, you're going to want to get the most bang for your buck on that spell you're perfecting. You get a +2 bonus on compulsions from your bloodline, and +4 total (doubled from Spell Perfection) for the entirety of the Enchantment school -- netting you +6 to a DC. Pretty dang hot, especially if you're making it Persistent.
But, uuuuuugh, Compulsions are all mind affecting and that makes them suck against anything that's immune to mind affecting. Threnodic Spell would let you target Undead with your mind affecting enchantments, but it requires Spell Focus Necromancy in order to qualify, so you can't take it at 13. You could start setting up to take it with Focus in Necromancy & Quicken Spell, go Spell Perfection at 15, then Threnodic Spell at 17, but then you're waiting until level 19 to get yourself any Spell Penetration, and that scares me.
UGH. I don't know if I'd recommend putting all your eggs in that Compulsion basket knowing that so many things will be immune to it!
With that said, if you do take Spell Perfection on a Compulsion, and it's just a matter of deciding which one... here's a benefit breakdown.
HOLD MONSTER - This is a 5th level spell, allowing you to cast two of them every round, one Quickened and one Persistent. Sadly, it's a "hold ..." spell, meaning creatures affected can retry their save as a full round action every round. On the other hand, if your DC is high enough they could be stuck rolling for 20's, and you could always quicken another one on them as soon as they break free.
Nothing at 6th level is worth it IMO; CLOAK OF DREAMS is cool but it's a buff, and Perfecting a buff is boring (especially when you can't get it quickened out of the deal). SERENITY is just not that great, and VENGEFUL OUTRAGE is -- I feel -- better as a buff on your fighter than as something you cast on an enemy. That, or one of those spells you cast on random townsfolk for the luls and/or to make your DM hate you.
WAVES OF ECSTASY - Inflicting the staggered condition rules, but as a 7th level spell, this limits the amount of metamagic benefit you can milk out of Spell Perfection to pretty much only Threnodic Spell and Persistent Spell.
IRRESISTIBLE DANCE - Pretty good spell, but at 8th level, is one level of free metamagic really worth it? IMO lackluster for Spell Perfection.
So, bleh, yeah. Hold Monster or Waves of Ecstasy if I were you. Probably Hold Monster, because I'd want to cast it twice every round, and hold suckers back in place any time they have the audacity to make their save.
@Mirrel: I haven't selected my feats for being level 13 yet; one of them is going to be Quicken Spell as my bloodline feat.
@Anetra: I have access to all the source books. Threnodic is off the table because I have a flaw that bars me from learning any Necromancy Spells. I'm not that worried about spell penetration since I'll get free re-rolls on all spell penetration checks at level 15. I'm thinking Hold Monster is probably the best choice for Spell Perfection. On the other hand, what am I giving up by taking Spell Perfection?
Depends on the spell and if you plan on echoing or not.
I'd considered Confusion, but I wouldn't perfect Confusion because
1) Sure, you get +2 to the DC, but that's not going to make it better than Insanity at 8th level when it's important that it sticks, and
2) Confusion isn't necessarily something you want to cast multiple times per combat. Hold Monster is definitely something you can cast over and over.
I would under no circumstances recommend Perfecting Hold Person or Dominate Person, because they only work on people. Things with the Humanoid creature type. Dominate Monster, while good, is a 9th level spell and therefore also not getting you the most for your perfection.
I'm building something similar (a Fey Bloodline Kitsune Sorcerer), and currently I'm thinking that I'm going to get Spell Perfection (Hold Monster). The potential to take an enemy out of combat every round with a swift action is pretty nasty, and it benefits from both the fey bloodline arcana and your spell focus feats.
Without even looking at your post, I know that the answer is yes. Spell Perfection is one of the most powerful feats in the game. What? You don't think free quicken on one 5th level or lower spell of your choice every single time you cast it is awesome? Nevermind the doubled bonuses...
Ok! I've been sold on Spell Perfection: Hold Monster. So now I have to decide A) what feat to take for hitting 13th level (taking Quicken as my bloodline feat) and B) what spells to take. For feats I'm mulling among Reach Spell, Selective Spell, and Spell Penetration. For spells I'm getting a 4th, two 5ths, and a 6th. I've decided that one of my 5ths is definitely going to be Telekinesis and I'm likely taking Disintegrate as my 6th. I'm still undecided on my other 4th and 5th level spell and would really like to cover any gaps I have in my existing spell selection.
I'd take Spell Penetration as my feat.
I'd take a Wall spell with one of my spells. If you take a 4th level Wall, you could take Overland Flight and retrain Fly when you can.
I'd take Spell Penetration as my feat.
I'd take a Wall spell with one of my spells. If you take a 4th level Wall, you could take Overland Flight and retrain Fly when you can.
I wouldn't retrain Fly until you have Mass Fly. Overland Flight is a good spell, but it's self only and you'll probably want something to use on other party members.
Should I get Spell Perfection?
YES.
Ok, something potentially crappy occurred to me. Here's the description of Spell Perfection:
Pick one spell which you have the ability to cast. Whenever you cast that spell you may apply any one metamagic feat you have to that spell without affecting its level or casting time, as long as the total modified level of the spell does not use a spell slot above 9th level. In addition, if you have other feats which allow you to apply a set numerical bonus to any aspect of this spell (such as Spell Focus, Spell Penetration, Weapon Focus [ray], and so on), double the bonus granted by that feat when applied to this spell.
The bolded part is what's pertinent. If a feat I apply to the spell doesn't affect casting time, does this mean that Quicken Spell doesn't work with Spell Perfection?
RAI, that was put in to cover spontaneous casters.
Strict, nazi RAW this board seems to favor: Probably, yeah.
RAI, that was put in to cover spontaneous casters.
Strict, nazi RAW this board seems to favor: Probably, yeah.
So that leaves me with two options:
#1: Ask my GM how he intends to rule it.
#2: Go along with the RAI and assume Quicken Spell will work with it.
I'd just tell your DM you plan to take Spell Perfection (Hold Monster) and are looking forward to casting it quickened for free.
If he says nothing, no point bringing it up. If he notices the stupid RAW later and actually makes an issue out of it, ask to choose something else, as his ruling has now drastically affected your character. And just enjoy it while it lasts.
Just my advice. I am pretty forthcoming about my builds/plans generally, to the point where I think most DMs get annoyed with all the detail. But I do it because I'd rather square things away in advance than make the character and have the DM freak out and do some knee-jerk reaction when [whatever] comes up.
But when it comes to blatant oversights like this...it's just bringing unneeded pain on yourself for no real reason. Most people won't even notice that stuff. I think you're the first on these boards to notice it, in fact!
Ended up taking Spell Penetration and and Quicken Magic, along with Ball Lightning, Wall of Force, Telekinesis, and Disintegrate. Got to use everything except Wall of Force today, even though Ball Lightning didn't end up doing anything during the fight I cast it.
StreamOfTheSky: Talked with my GM and using Quicken with Spell Perfection won't be a problem.
Thanks for your suggestions everyone!