So we're starting a new campaign with 3 players. One player will be a melee focused Shark Shaman and the third player is playing a Merfolk Master Summoner. My character will be a half elf cleric of Besmara with the "water child" alternate racial ability.
That being said, we have 25 points to work with (a bonus from the GM because there are only 3 of us) and I'm going with a battle cleric + negative energy channeling build. A decent CHA is typically tough to pull off on a battle cleric, but the 25 point build helps a ton.
STR 16
DEX 14
CON 12
INT 8
WIS 14
CHA 16
Domains: Tactics, Deception
Traits: Armor Expert, Sacred Conduit
Feats:
1 - Selective Channel
3 - Channel Smite
5 - Improved Channel
7 - Control Undead
9 - Power Attack
11 - Toughness
13 - Improved Initiative
15 - Extra Channel
At first level I'm going Cutlass (GM fiat to allow as replacement for Besmara's normal favored weapon, the rapier) and buckler. This plus leather lamellar brings my ac to a fairly respectable 17.
I'm considering splashing another class to add flavor and utility and would like feedback on my options below:
1 - Freebooter Ranger (1 level) for skills, martial weapons, and Freebooter's Bane
2 - Fighter (1-2 levels) for martial weapons and 2 feats
3 - Corsair Fighter (2 levels) for martial weapons, 1 feat + free cleave w/o an AC penalty
4 - Musketeer/Emissary/Order of the Cockatrice Cavalier (2 levels) for a pistol (thematically nifty), martial weapons, mounted combat, medium armor w/o decreasing land speed, and Dazzling Display for free (you also don't need a weapon in hand and you get an additional +2 to attack rolls when attacking a demoralized foe)
Critique / comments / advice on the build and the splash options are greatly appreciated. Thanks!
Xykal
Have you considered Inquisitor? Decent crossover with a Cleric, and there's a feat that lets you count your Inquisitor levels for channeling to do harm.
You've clearly put a lot of research and thought into this. I really like how you combine thematic appropriateness with effective choices; I try to do the same thing. (The domains in particular look like very good choices for your character.) I'll give the best feedback that I can on those splash options.
1. Freebooter Ranger: I like this one a lot, and not just because I like rangers a lot. I wasn't too sure about Freebooter's Bane at first, since it looked like a limited inspire courage; but then I realized that it's quite the opposite! It encourages the sound tactic of reducing the enemies' actions ASAP, while discouraging (or at least not contributing to) the 15-minute adventuring day.
Also, just one level is nice. The smaller the splash the better, to keep up the channels that you're investing so many resources in. We're talking about 2/5 of your ability score points, 1/2 of your traits, and your first four feats! (I assume you mean Command Undead for 7th.)
2. Fighter: Meh. I mean, yay a feat! But Skill Focus adds +3 to +6, so every class skill is the equivalent of 1/2 a feat. Did I mention that I love rangers?
3. Corsair Fighter: Now you're talking! But you'd have to give up two levels of channel progression; and I'm sorry if I sound like a broken record, but I don't see how that fits with investing so much in a particular class feature.
4. Musketeer/Emissary/Order of the Cockatrice Cavalier: Again with the two levels problem. And I question some of the benefits. Would you even use mounted combat, when your characters appear to be designed to be on a ship? Does it matter how fast you can move in medium armor, when one of your comrades-in-arms has a 5 ft. base speed? And is it really worth a full-round action to inflict the shaken condition, even in a radius?
I thank you for the interesting question, and hope you found this useful! :)
Have you considered Inquisitor? Decent crossover with a Cleric, and there's a feat that lets you count your Inquisitor levels for channeling to do harm.
It's an interesting idea. The 3/4 BAB bonus and no martial weapons (I see the character wielding a falchion at some point) are definitely cons, however.
I appreciate the suggestion, though. =)
You've clearly put a lot of research and thought into this. I really like how you combine thematic appropriateness with effective choices; I try to do the same thing. (The domains in particular look like very good choices for your character.) I'll give the best feedback that I can on those splash options.
1. I like this one a lot, and not just because I like rangers a lot. I wasn't too sure about Freebooter's Bane at first, since it looked like a limited inspire courage; but then I realized that it's quite the opposite! It encourages the sound tactic of reducing the enemies' actions ASAP, while discouraging (or at least not contributing to) the 15-minute adventuring day.
Also, just one level is nice. The smaller the splash the better, to keep up the channels that you're investing so many resources in. We're talking about 2/5 of your ability score points, 1/2 of your traits, and your first four feats! (I assume you mean Command Undead for 7th.)
2. Meh. I mean, yay a feat! But Skill Focus adds +3 to +6, so every class skill is the equivalent of 1/2 a feat. Did I mention that I love rangers?
3. Now you're talking! But you'd have to give up two levels of channel progression; and I'm sorry if I sound like a broken record, but I don't see how that fits with investing so much in a particular class feature.
4. Again with the two levels problem. And I question some of the benefits. Would you even use mounted combat, when your characters appear to be designed to be on a ship? Does it matter how fast you can move in medium armor, when one of your comrades-in-arms has a 5 ft. base speed? And is it really worth a full-round action to inflict the shaken condition, even in a radius?
I thank you for the interesting question, and hope you fid this useful! :)
Very useful and detailed. Thank you. Command Undead is definitely what I meant at 7. The merman actually has a 20' base move (strong tail alternate racial ability plus the fleet feat at 1st lvl).
I was leaning towards number 4 mostly because there are (numerically) more benefits plus I like the thought of the character having a pistol for brandishing and generally looking piraty... piratish... piratesque? Anyway... you're right, though. Mounted combat probably won't see much use. And maybe I'm giving too much credit to dazzling display's usefulness. On top of that, the character will have lots of options in combat so I'm not sure how often dazzling display would come into effect.
I will continue to evaluate and hopefully I'll get a bit more feedback from some other folks, too. I really appreciate your well-written and thorough response. =)
Xykal
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Well, focusing on the Rapier could do you well. Channel Smite is not needed, and a Consecrated Weapon will allow you do as the feat does.
With the Rapier, you can be Dex focused, and cut down on MAD. Later, when you can afford it, you can nab an Agile Rapier, and up your damage.
If allowed, the Guided enchantment will work even better.
If you choose to be more of a martial PC, then the Crusader archetype may work well for you.
Have you considered Inquisitor? Decent crossover with a Cleric, and there's a feat that lets you count your Inquisitor levels for channeling to do harm.It's an interesting idea. The 3/4 BAB bonus and no martial weapons (I see the character wielding a falchion at some point) are definitely cons, however.
I appreciate the suggestion, though. =)
With GM approval you could also use the Black Powder Inquisition with the Inquisitor to get access to firearms.
If I seem obsessed with the Inquisitor, it's because I've been playing around with possible Cleric/Inquisitor builds for Skulls & Shackles lately.
I was leaning towards number 4 mostly because there are (numerically) more benefits plus I like the thought of the character having a pistol for brandishing and generally looking piraty... piratish... piratesque?
A simple gunslinger with a pistol would fit that role better, IMO. They get Gunsmithing. And they also have martial weapon proficiency.
Your build seems pretty solid, but when I thought about making a cleric of Besmara I wanted to use the Versatile Channeler feat. Being able to heal AND harm with channel energy would make any cleric a much more powerful beast in my opinion.
On further review, I agree with erikdlan, and also think that Channel Smite is pretty weak. Too limited in times per day, and then again for being resistible, and then again for being expended even if the attack misses... yeah. No.
You could just replace Channel Smite at level 3 with Versatile Channeler, to good effect. Also, if you go with a gunslinger splash, then the buccaneer archetype is very flavorful, as well as counting grit off of Cha instead of Wis.
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I would reduce Cha to 14 which is enough for you to exclude your 2 friends from negative channel and switch Dex and Con stats. My personal preference is always to have higher Con.
Generally this type of cleric is almost impossible to pull of with 20 point buy but seems okay relatively with 25 points. Battle clerics generally ditch charisma in favor of other stats.
Your low skills will poke you in the brain a bit tho, be warned.
On further review, I agree with erikdlan, and also think that Channel Smite is pretty weak. Too limited in times per day, and then again for being resistible, and then again for being expended even if the attack misses... yeah. No.
You could just replace Channel Smite at level 3 with Versatile Channeler, to good effect.
I'll consider this. My thought was that Channel Smite would be reserved for the BBEG. On non-BBEG fights the choice between making an attack and channeling should be pretty straightforward. Against the BBEG, I think I'll really want to have the option to attack and channel. Also, I'm not sure that Versatile Channeler will be super helpful if I only have 6 channels per day and I'm planning on using those offensively.
Also, if you go with a gunslinger splash, then the buccaneer archetype is very flavorful, as well as counting grit off of Cha instead of Wis.
I've considered this as well (although not the Buccaneer because it's human only) but ultimately it seems like I won't be investing any feats in ranged combat which makes Gunslinger less attractive.
Again, I really appreciate the comments. I love the feedback!
Xykal
I would reduce Cha to 14 which is enough for you to exclude your 2 friends from negative channel and switch Dex and Con stats. My personal preference is always to have higher Con.
Generally this type of cleric is almost impossible to pull of with 20 point buy but seems okay relatively with 25 points. Battle clerics generally ditch charisma in favor of other stats.
Your low skills will poke you in the brain a bit tho, be warned.
Thank you for the suggestions. I'm not a huge fan of having my primary casting stat at 14 (trust me, this is a departure for me). But CHA also governs channels per day and the DC of my channels. Ultimately this character is a fighter who channels and can cast spells versus a spellcaster who can fight a little, so I think I'll stick with the 16 CHA.
Well, focusing on the Rapier could do you well. Channel Smite is not needed, and a Consecrated Weapon will allow you do as the feat does.
With the Rapier, you can be Dex focused, and cut down on MAD. Later, when you can afford it, you can nab an Agile Rapier, and up your damage.
If allowed, the Guided enchantment will work even better.
If you choose to be more of a martial PC, then the Crusader archetype may work well for you.
Thank you and I'm sure this is the more optimized route. And, frankly, the normal route I would take. Having a STR based CHA is simply something I want to try out. I never play the big strong character with the high armor ratings. =)
Now consecrated weapons is something I wasn't familiar with. I'll have to give this some more thought as either a replacement of Channel Smite or as an interesting addition to Channel Smite.
Thanks!
1/2 elf Cleric of Besmara?
looks like you may want to look an angelkin (blood of angels) battle oracle of besmara with the scion of humanity alternate trait
Str 16 (14+2)
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 14
Wis 10
Cha 16 (14+2)
your will and fortitude saves are a little lower but you get
more hit points
more skill points and extra class skills (including perception)
the benefits of having a curse, i recommend blind (for melee) deaf (initiative penalties don't matter when you roll thrice) or tongues (the power gamers curse) with aquan as your language
spontaneous casting (which is better for divine casters than arcane due to limited spell selection)
all martial weapons and heavy armor without a dip (skill at arms revelation)
and a chance at rolling for the 100 aasimaar traits, you might even get permission to choose specific ones (such as +2 strength).
you have an option in combat that isn't dependent on spells
i would recommend the free cures option (rather than free inflicts) so you can help heal allies.
Having a STR based CHA is simply something I want to try out.
Eesh... that should say STR based character.
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Thank you for the suggestions. I'm not a huge fan of having my primary casting stat at 14 (trust me, this is a departure for me). But CHA also governs channels per day and the DC of my channels. Ultimately this character is a fighter who channels and can cast spells versus a spellcaster who can fight a little, so I think I'll stick with the 16 CHA.I would reduce Cha to 14 which is enough for you to exclude your 2 friends from negative channel and switch Dex and Con stats. My personal preference is always to have higher Con.
Generally this type of cleric is almost impossible to pull of with 20 point buy but seems okay relatively with 25 points. Battle clerics generally ditch charisma in favor of other stats.
Your low skills will poke you in the brain a bit tho, be warned.
It's fine opinion, but consider this: Drop Cha to 14 and take feat Improved Channel instead. It adds +2 to DC of channels.
Channel isn't generally primary source of damage so you aren't missing much with losing 1 channel and +1 to DC on it.
However you decide, it's gonna turn out fine, I am sure of it.
I wrote this earlier, but the site was acting up, so I took a nap. (I typically have Thursdays off.) Anyway, it looks like you're done with the expansive phase and on to the critical phase, where you narrow options down. So! Here we go.
I'll consider this. My thought was that Channel Smite would be reserved for the BBEG. On non-BBEG fights the choice between making an attack and channeling should be pretty straightforward. Against the BBEG, I think I'll really want to have the option to attack and channel. Also, I'm not sure that Versatile Channeler will be super helpful if I only have 6 channels per day and I'm planning on using those offensively.
What kind of AC and saves do you expect the BBEG to have? How many mooks do you expect to surround him? Which would you actually choose to do with one of your six daily channels, when push came to shove: maybe do some extra damage, but only to the BBEG, and only if you happen to hit him with that particular attack? Or hit the BBEG with your channel for sure -- only having to worry about saves -- while also reducing the actions per round against you, by clearing out mooks?
Also, what if the BBEG and his mooks are undead, like in Pirates of the Caribbean?
Finally, while it would be nice if wands of CLW were all we ever needed, that's not how it works. Oh sure, maybe for most fights; but then there comes the one where either someone gets revived to take an action, or you all die. And you're planning this character out to level 15. How many of those fights do you expect to have between now and then?
I've considered this as well (although not the Buccaneer because it's human only) but ultimately it seems like I won't be investing any feats in ranged combat which makes Gunslinger less attractive.
Hey now, we're only talking about a splash for martial weapon proficiency. You're the one who wanted the flavor of waving a gun around, and you're playing a half-elf. If you can't talk your DM into letting the Elf Blood racial trait qualify you for a human-only archetype, then you don't deserve it. :p
Buccaneer gives you a handy bonus feat from Seadog's Gait, replacing the Quck Clear deed with one that anyone would find useful -- and Gunslinger's Dodge is already like that. And if the heavily-armored BBEG is still too far away for you to hit with your cutlass, how about hitting touch AC with Deadeye? You might not do much damage, but at least it's something.
Thank you for the suggestions. I'm not a huge fan of having my primary casting stat at 14 (trust me, this is a departure for me). But CHA also governs channels per day and the DC of my channels. Ultimately this character is a fighter who channels and can cast spells versus a spellcaster who can fight a little, so I think I'll stick with the 16 CHA.I would reduce Cha to 14 which is enough for you to exclude your 2 friends from negative channel and switch Dex and Con stats. My personal preference is always to have higher Con.
Generally this type of cleric is almost impossible to pull of with 20 point buy but seems okay relatively with 25 points. Battle clerics generally ditch charisma in favor of other stats.
Your low skills will poke you in the brain a bit tho, be warned.
From a Selective Channel perspective, even 16 Cha is nowhere near enough. since one of those two friends is a master summoner. (The other is a druid, but I assume that a shark shaman would choose a domain instead of an animal companion.) But really, I don't think that I have enough experience to give advice on ability scores.
The question I would ask is, which ability score are you planning to increase at level four? And which two ability scores are you planning to raise first with magic items? If one of those answers is something other than Str or Cha, then maybe you should raise that ability now -- before distributing points -- to end up with a higher total score later.
Also, I hadn't really noticed your low Int. If anything, that would increase the impact of a ranger's many +3 bonuses from class skills, since you'll be hard-pressed to give any skill more than one skill rank.
Well, focusing on the Rapier could do you well. Channel Smite is not needed, and a Consecrated Weapon will allow you do as the feat does.
With the Rapier, you can be Dex focused, and cut down on MAD. Later, when you can afford it, you can nab an Agile Rapier, and up your damage.
If allowed, the Guided enchantment will work even better.
If you choose to be more of a martial PC, then the Crusader archetype may work well for you.Thank you and I'm sure this is the more optimized route. And, frankly, the normal route I would take. Having a STR based CHA is simply something I want to try out. I never play the big strong character with the high armor ratings. =)
Now consecrated weapons is something I wasn't familiar with. I'll have to give this some more thought as either a replacement of Channel Smite or as an interesting addition to Channel Smite.
Thanks!
Consecrated weapons actually look better to me, since they stay charged until you hit with them, instead of for just one attack. With so few channels per day, I can only imagine how frustrating it would be to waste one completely.
Thanks again for all the awesome suggestions! I haven't made a final decision yet, but I will definitely let everyone know.
=)
Xykal
Sorry for the delay! A couple of things have changed. The player who was going to play the Master Summoner had a work schedule change and will no longer be able to join us. So that leaves the Shark Shaman druid and myself, but we got a stat buff to compensate a bit. We also had a 2 week delay in getting started.
With a decrease to the party size, I made a few changes to my priorities.
So the new build is Cleric (Evangelist) 1 / Gunslinger (Gun Tank) 1 / Cleric (Evangelist) 18.
The 1 level of Gun Tank gives medium and heavy armor proficiencies, shield proficiency, martial weapon proficiency, complements my class skills nicely, provides a gun for flavor, and the Gun Tank replacement deed (essentially) gives me light fortification 4 times a day.
Evangelist eliminates medium armor prof, heavy armor prof, and shields (compensated by the 1 lvl dip in Gun Tank), eliminates 1 domain (I'm leaning towards keeping the Deception domain and eliminating the Tactics domain), reduces Channel Energy effectiveness (which I decided wasn't really worth heavily focusing on as an "in combat" ability anyway), but gives you some bardic performances to include inspire courage.
Inspire courage plus undead "friends" plus a summon or two from the druid plus some help from our pirate crew mates seems like a whole lot of win.
Here's the hero lab output for anyone interested:
Male Half-Elf Cleric (Evangelist) 1
NN Medium Humanoid (elf, human)
Init +3; Senses Low-Light Vision; Perception +6
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Defense
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AC 15, touch 11, flat-footed 14 (+4 armor, +1 Dex)
hp 10 (1d8+2)
Fort +4, Ref +1, Will +6
Immune sleep; Resist Elven Immunities
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee Cutlass +3 (1d6+3/18-20/x2) and
Dagger +3 (1d4+3/19-20/x2)
Special Attacks Sermonic Performance (standard action) (6 rounds/d, Sermonic Performance: Counterspell, Sermonic Performance: Fascinate (DC 12), Sermonic Performance: Inspire Courage +1
Cleric (Evangelist) Spells Prepared (CL 1, 3 melee touch, 1 ranged touch):
1 (2/day) Bless, Magic Weapon (DC 15), Cure Light Wounds (DC 15)
0 (at will) Detect Magic, Guidance, Light
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Statistics
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Str 16, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 18, Cha 14
Base Atk +0; CMB +3; CMD 14
Feats Command Undead (DC 13), Skill Focus (-Choose-) (Adaptability)
Traits Reactionary, Sacred Conduit, Touched by the Sea
Skills Acrobatics -1, Climb +1, Diplomacy +6, Escape Artist -1, Fly -1, Perception +6, Profession (sailor) +8, Ride -1, Stealth +3, Swim +10 Modifiers Water Child
Languages Common, Elven
SQ Aura, Cleric (Evangelist) Domain: Deception, Elf Blood, Public Speaker (-3 DC to hear), Spontaneous Casting, Sudden Shift (7/day)
Combat Gear Cutlass, Dagger, Lamellar, leather; Other Gear Backpack, Masterwork (2 @ 5 lbs), Nautical Chart, Oil (1-pint flask) (2), Onyx Gem (25 GP) x2, Rations, trail (per day) (2), Swim fins, Waterskin
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Special Abilities
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Aura (Ex) The Cleric has an aura corresponding to his deity's alignment.
Cleric (Evangelist) Domain: Deception Associated Domain: Trickery
Bluff, Disguise, and Stealth are class skills.
Command Undead (DC 13) Channel energy can take control of undead.
Elf Blood You are counted as both elven and human for any effect relating to race.
Elven Immunities +2 save bonus vs Enchantments.
Elven Immunities - Sleep You are immune to magic sleep effects.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in low light, distinguishing color and detail.
Public Speaker (-3 DC to hear) An evangelist gains Perform as a class skill. In addition, she is trained to project her voice with great skill and effect; the DC to hear her speak in difficult conditions is reduced by an amount equal to her class level plus her Charisma modifier (
Sermonic Performance (standard action) (6 rounds/day) An evangelist gains the ability to deliver a select number of supernatural and spell-like performances through the force and power of her divinely inspired preaching and exhortation. This ability is similar in all respects to bardic performance as us
Sermonic Performance: Counterspell (Su) Counter magical effects that depend on sound.
Sermonic Performance: Fascinate (DC 12) (Su) One or more creatures becomes fascinated with you.
Sermonic Performance: Inspire Courage +1 (Su) Morale bonus on some saving throws, attack and damage rolls.
Spontaneous Casting An evangelist does not gain the ability to spontaneously cast cure or inflict spells by sacrificing prepared spells. However, an evangelist can spontaneously cast the following spells by sacrificing a prepared spell of the noted level or above:
Sudden Shift (7/day) (Su) As an immediate action after being missed by a melee attack, teleport up to 10' away, within the reach of the attacker.
Touched by the Sea Underwater attack penalties are lessened by 1.
Water Child You may always take 10 on Swim checks.
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I wondered what happened! Feedback: Yeah I'd choose Deception over Tactics. I don't think that you still get a Skill Focus feat, since Water Child replaces adaptability and multitalented; but if you do, then you'd hardly ever regret having better Perception.
Also, it takes Spellcraft and Knowledge (arcana) to get the most from detect magic. But you're kind of starved for skill ranks, so hopefully that just won't be an issue.
I wondered what happened! Feedback: Yeah I'd choose Deception over Tactics. I don't think that you still get a Skill Focus feat, since Water Child replaces adaptability and multitalented; but if you do, then you'd hardly ever regret having better Perception.
Also, it takes Spellcraft and Knowledge (arcana) to get the most from detect magic. But you're kind of starved for skill ranks, so hopefully that just won't be an issue.
Yeah, herolab has an error in that it doesn't eliminate skill focus when you choose water child. That's why it's "blank"... ie, I didn't choose a specific skill.
And yes... I'm super skill rank challenged. =) Things will get better with levels, though.
Thanks for the response and feedback.
You're welcome! And I just realized that there's a bit of a disconnect. Inspire Courage is a mind-affecting ability, which undead are immune to. So one of your abilities doesn't work with the other.
Also, animate dead is a 3rd-level spell; so your onyx doesn't make much sense, unless you're starting out at a higher level.
You're welcome! And I just realized that there's a bit of a disconnect. Inspire Courage is a mind-affecting ability, which undead are immune to. So one of your abilities doesn't work with the other.
Also, animate dead is a 3rd-level spell; so your onyx doesn't make much sense, unless you're starting out at a higher level.
Holy crap... how did I not know that Inspire Courage doesn't affect undead. Thanks for pointing that out! And the onyx is for later. Just trying to spend all the starting cash. By the way, Animate Dead, Lesser is only a 2nd level spell. Thanks again...