Ultimate Equipment Guide & Core Book:
A complete suit of full plate includes gauntlets, heavy leather boots, a visored helmet, and a thick layer of padding that is worn underneath the armor.The RAW clearly states 'gauntles'. If you want to, sure you can take them away from the suit and give the PC something else, but just simply state that, don't try and weave some convoluted theory or excuse about armorers and costs. Were that the case adventurers would be walking around looking like C3-PO with their shiny breastplate and off colored arms and legs because the BP is mithral but his arms are steel, but in order to cut costs the made his legs from iron...
For crying out loud.
I'd say you were the one using convoluted and made up excuse for it being the way you want. We're providing RAW that says what you buy isn't completely composed of the material you have the armor made of. Play it your way in your game, it won't bother anyone else here, BUT when you want to impose your view of things in regards to the actual rules in the Rules Forum, why don't you provide something more than "It is" or "you're making things up" to back it up?
Full Plate Armor gives gauntlets, Adamantine Full Plate Armor gives gauntlets. It never says the material used is the same, just that you get them. RAW tells you that you get the item, not that it is "special" because the majority of the armor bought is "special" and RAW states that the entire suit of "special" armor doesn't need to be constructed entirely of the "special" armor to provide its benefit.
What rules do you have to prove your point?
I am pretty sure he has nothing. :)
How often will you need to punch something that has DR where the adamantine quality actually factors?
Sorry, I skimmed a bunch of the gauntlet-as-armor stuff, I'd assume they'd be adamantine if they are part of a suit of adamantine full plate, and sure you could sell or give them away if you replaced them with some other type of gauntlet.
But then you'll look kinda silly when your armor doesn't match, and you suddenly need to punch something with DR/adamantine.
As well, as Ultimate Combat states.
If a plate arm armor piece consists of a gauntlet, why would the Full Plate be less consistent in a more complete form?A plate arm armor
piece typically consists of pairs of pauldrons, gardbraces,
rerebraces, vambraces, and gauntlets...
I don't understand your point here, and I could not find this quote. Do you have a page number?
How often will you need to punch something that has DR where the adamantine quality actually factors?
Sorry, I skimmed a bunch of the gauntlet-as-armor stuff, I'd assume they'd be adamantine if they are part of a suit of adamantine full plate, and sure you could sell or give them away if you replaced them with some other type of gauntlet.
But then you'll look kinda silly when your armor doesn't match, and you suddenly need to punch something with DR/adamantine.
Looks don't influence the rules, and skimming the post allows you to miss important points. The fact that the weapons may cost more than the armor is one good reason to not allow it. At the least it is a big discount if someone decides to sell the gauntlets. Other post go into detail on the issue.
Full Plate is something completely separate from Gauntlets as an item. They are even categorized as two different item types (one is a type of Armor, the other a type of Weapon). Purchasing a single set of full plate says that it comes with a pair of Gauntlets, and all the other unimportant stuff.
Saying that the Gauntlets being made of Adamantine is a bunch of junk, especially when there is no indication or RAW to back up the claim of Gauntlet costs being covered in the Special Material cost.
Tell you what, let's go ahead and for this scenario, allow your little "rule" of Adamantine Gauntlets included in armor sets that are included in gauntlets. To begin, let's look at what all comes with gauntlets:
The cost and weight given are for a single gauntlet. Medium and heavy armors (except breastplate) come with gauntlets.
Bolded part says that all Medium and Heavy armors come with Gauntlets. The Breastplate is an exception, and one that majorly affects the balancing of pricing for special materials. Also take note that a Gauntlet is listed as a Weapon, not a piece of Armor. (Yes, there are Locked Gauntlets, but those don't come with Medium/Heavy Armors.)
So let's compare pricing, shall we? If I want to purchase an Adamantine Breastplate, it will cost me a flat-out 10,000 gold to purchase it. Let's say my Cleric buddy wants some Adamantine Splint Mail. With your rule, he gets 2 Adamantine Gauntlets for free.
A Gauntlet by itself is worth 2 gold; a Masterwork version is worth 302 gold. Since that is only the cost of one (and nearly every set of Medium and Heavy armor comes with 2), the prices are doubled, as implied with the italicized part. While yes, it is listed that the cost of Masterwork is covered in the Adamantine crafting, it is a minor difference.
Here's the problem. 2 Adamantine Gauntlets are worth 6,004 gold. They are getting that for free by your rule. If I wanted 2 Adamantine Gauntlets with my Breastplate, that's how much I would have to pay; in extra, mind you in order to get the same amount of gear that he receives, via your rule.
Is that even fair? Hell no; it's stupid that I have to purchase over 16,000 gold's worth of equipment to get something that the other guy only had to pay 10,000 gold for, for the same service, from the same blacksmith, etc.
It's not balanced to give them that, nor can you even support it even being logical in a game setting. You think every armorsmith in Golarion will give that kind of deal? "Hey, if you want this Adamantine Breastplate and 2 Adamantine Gauntlets to come with it, it's going to cost you 6,004 gold extra from the original cost because we all f***ing hate forging breastplates; but wait, give us a Sending spell with your order of any other medium/heavy armor, and we'll ship you the 2 Adamantine Gauntlets along with your order; a 6004 gold piece value, absolutely free!"
No. It doesn't work that way. You cannot prove it works that way, because it is completely stupid when you factor in armor that does not get gauntlets, compared to other armors that do. Allowing Adamantine Gauntlets for other armors (besides Breastplates) is giving them a free 6000 gold, which is no fair for those who wear Breastplates for armor. If by some other, stupid reason you find a means to justify giving them Adamantine Gauntlets, fine. I'm sure PFS players will laugh at you and call you a complete moron.
/endrant
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No need to have a coronary. 'Masterwork' in the rules is not one thing. You can have masterwork armour, masterwork weapons, masterwork tools, heck, even a masterwork backpack.
Each different masterwork 'type' has it's own unique game effects (including price). Masterwork thieves' tools provide a +2 circumstance bonus on disable device checks. Masterwork weapons provide a non-magical +1 bonus to attack rolls and cost 300gp more than a normal weapon of that type.
Masterwork armour provides a 1-point reduction in the armour's check penalty for a price of 150gp more than a normal suit of armour of that type. To quote that section of the CRB:-
'The masterwork quality of a suit of armor or shield never provides a bonus on attack or damage rolls, even if the armor or shield is used as a weapon.'
So you don't need to worry about masterwork scale armour (price 200gp) having masterwork gauntlets for free. The gauntlets may be masterwork as armour, but they are NOT masterwork as weapons, by RAW. now, you could have them made as masterwork weapons, but it would cost you 604gp for the pair, and they certainly would NOT come free with the masterwork armour.
Similarly, adamantine armour and weapons count as masterwork armour and masterwork weapons respectively. Although all the metal parts of the suit are adamantine, and therefore count as masterwork, they are masterwork ARMOUR, not masterwork WEAPONS, per the rule above.
Adamantine weapons have a different cost and different game mechanics to adamantine armour. The adamantine full plate comes with gauntlets as part of the price, but these gauntlets are NOT adamantine weapons! You can have some made if you want, but they would cost 6004gp for a pair, and would not come 'free' as part of a suit of adamantine full plate.
You can still punch people in the face with the gauntlets that come free with masterwork scale or adamantine full plate or what have you, and you would use the 'gauntlet' entry on the weapons table to find the game stats, but they or not in any way special as WEAPONS.
Once more, with feeling:-
'The masterwork quality of a suit of armor or shield never provides a bonus on attack or damage rolls, even if the armor or shield is used as a weapon.'
As a GM I'd just charge an additional 9,900 gp for a real dwarven plate made out off adamantine complete with adamantine gauntlets and a boulder helm. Then the players can haggle with the armorer to cut a bit off the price, of course all the cool adventurers pay for the extras...
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The D&D combat system (that Pathfinder is just the latest and best version of) including AC has always been of the fast and dirty variety. A suit of plate mail gives the same AC if the helmet and gauntlets get replaced with magic options. Swapping the stout leather boot for magical silk slippers has no effect on AC.
Like the old set of D&D rules that priced ladders and 10' poles so that it was cheaper to buy the ladder and disassemble it to make 2 poles. There will always times the rules creak undervthevweight of play.
If there was no mechanical advantage in having adamantine gauntlets then this would, Ii am sure, never have been an issue.
I do see the issue here that the mail wearer can now gain a rather situational benefit at a better cost/ benefit ratio than just getting the gauntlets separately. Sadly the rules have not covered this any more than the old ones did the 10' pole / ladder example.
The RAW make it clear that armour is an item made up of x components. If we make that item from a certain material then the item is made from it. We can no more claim that the breast plate is adamantine and the gauntlets not than the gauntlets are and the breastplate is not.
W
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I don't understand your point here, and I could not find this quote. Do you have a page number?As well, as Ultimate Combat states.
If a plate arm armor piece consists of a gauntlet, why would the Full Plate be less consistent in a more complete form?A plate arm armor
piece typically consists of pairs of pauldrons, gardbraces,
rerebraces, vambraces, and gauntlets...
Page 198, under Armor Pieces and Armor Suits.
My point is that this is a piece of plate armor, and is inclusive of the gauntlet. That paragraph explains it in more detail.
The gauntlet is part of the arm: the arm is part of the armor: and the armor is made of one specific material, unless specifically stated that separate pieces are composed of different materials.
Page 198, under Armor Pieces and Armor Suits.
Under Variant Rules, along with Called Shots and Wounds and Vigor.
The same rules you would use to let someone buy, say, an Adamantine chain arm armor piece for 2,525 gold, which would, by your ruling, include two adamantine gauntlets, which are worth 6,004 gp. Resulting in a 477 gp profit by selling the gauntlets and throwing away the chain armor.
Bringing in the arguement for selling MW splint mail with gauntlets made to function as armor, not as weapons
They only function as weapons. They have no function other than being weapons.
If you want to fluff them as being all shiny (or adamantine colored) so it looks good, but has no effect at all in any way, while keeping them mechanically identical to regular gauntlets, go for it.
Option A) Adamantine armor comes with regular gauntlets, like the rules say.
Option B) Adamantine armor comes with re-fluffed gauntlets that you call adamantine, but do not grant a bonus to hit, nor ignore hardness, nor have increased HP, and are not worth 3,000gp more.
Option C) Special armor comes with Special gauntlets that can cost more to make than the entire retail value of the armor in the first place, breaking the game.
A and B are fine (and functionally identical). The only problem is people arguing option C which is ridiculous.
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Adamantine gauntlets are not a trivial freebie. They allow you to punch a hole through a wall or metal bank vault.
I think the only sensible ruling is that adamantine armour isn't built to adamantine weapon standards and does not penetrate DR and hardness. Otherwise, even with a ruling that the gauntlets are ordinary steel, with some basic martial arts skills you could use the knees and elbows of your armour as weapons, or wrap your adamantine chain shirt around a club, or whatever.
Grick re your option "A" if the rules said that then there would not be a discussion.
Sure they do. "The suit includes gauntlets." Not masterwork gauntlets, or adamantine gauntlets, or gauntlets made of whatever the suit is made of, just gauntlets. Gauntlets are a regular defined weapon.
The RAW actually say that full plate is defined as being inter alia gauntlets. The special material rules apply to the item.
Incorrect. "This metal suit includes gauntlets..."
It includes them. They are included with the metal suit. They are not part of the metal suit, and changes to the metal suit do not also change the gauntlets.
The gauntlets included with a chain shirt are not made of chain. The gauntlets included with hide armor are not made of hide.
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Interesting discussion
I think the rules try to abstract - as such you have a full suit of armor. The rules are just not intended to split off individual parts from the armor.
The cost of adamantine gauntlets might be the most obvious issue here. But allowing to strip off parts of armor causes it's own unique problems.
Lets look at encumbrance:
Character in Full Plate = encumbrance 50 lbs
Can I strip of my helmet and lower the encumbrance to 47 lbs (3 lbs taken from helmets in wondrous item entries - there is no individual entry for a helmet)
Next go the gauntlets and I go down to 45 lbs
And next go the boots to drop to 44 lbs
What is the encumbrance of someone with full plate and a helmet of brilliance and elven boots?
The rules are for simplicity. Taking off parts has more issues as just costs of gauntlets. It just isn't supposed to happen.
This is an instance of the game where we're not supposed to look too closely at the rules. Buuut that's what we're doing.
Regardless of RAW, my knee jerk reaction is to think that it's silly to suggest that only part of your stupid expensive armor is made of the material you paid for. However, a metallurgist/blacksmith might disagree. (I am neither, but I'm brainstorming.) Perhaps the periphery of the armor is alloyed so as to spread the material out more without sacrificing strength in the vital areas (the torso, mostly). So while the gauntlets are a part of the armor -- and let's not pretend that gauntlets do not serve a logical function as armor, RAW or no -- they may lack the purity of material that the chestpiece, shoulders, and upper legs, denying them the offensive qualities of adamantine.
I'm all for balance, but I cast my lot with those who think it's a petty issue to disconnect the gauntlets from the rest of the suit. Let 'em have their super-hard gauntlets.
If something has DR/adamantium and you're reduced to PUNCHING, you've already lost.
To prove a point, let me start by saying that i sold cars for 5 years.
A new base model car on my lot costs 10000. I know, for a fact, that selling that same car the day it comes off the truck piece by piece is actually more valuable than the whole car. At Burger King, the cost for a large fries, a large drink, and a double whopper is $1.58 more than the cost of a double whopper meal, large size. When you buy a SET of something, you get a discount.
Per RAW, you get no attack bonus for armor due to MW quality, hence it being 150 for MW armor vs 300 for MW weapons.
Bringing in the arguement for selling MW splint mail with gauntlets made to function as armor, not as weapons, and expecting those gauntlets to sell for the same amount as MW gauntlets made to function as weapons, since the rules, the cost in the rules, and the descriptions themselves say THEY ARE NOT EQUIVALENT, is just nitpicking online because you have nothing better to do.
Adamantine Full plate, Mithril Full plate, and Cold Iron Full plate, give you gauntlets of the same material as the rest of the suit. I can only guess that you have never been in a museum and have never seen even the badly built hollywood style sets that are used in the movies if you argue otherwise.
If you decide to make other materials make up parts of the suit, then you need to break out the rules for Piecemail armor and use those.
Because, if I asked a smith to make me a set of adamantine spiked plate, and was then told that i didn't have adamantine weapons when i made my attacks with my spiked armor, (notice, i am not arguing the spikes needing to enchant separately mind you) I would not be playing at your table any longer. I have just paid 16k for an item, completely non-magical, and you are still not letting me have what is included in the price.
Now, I would not expect to get the +1 to hit from that same spiked armor unless I had also paid for the weapon cost separatly, had the spikes enchanted separately, or had a class feature that allowed them to be used with weapon training(such as the brawler), but I would expect them to count toward DR and hardness as adamantine is RULED to do.
At my table you would pay the same price for adamantine spikes wether you add them to studded leather armor steel fullplate or adamantine fullplate. It is great that you expect a discount to be incorporated into the rules but by default it isn't.
I would probably rule that the gauntlets are adamantine but not MW weapons, the 'adamantine weapon is always MW' is a great rule of thumb but it is a bit of a dumb rule at times, especially if the item was never meant to be a weapon or the MW component was never paid for.
If I do not give players adamantine gauntlets they probably kick or body slam anything they want to break instead.
No need to have a coronary. 'Masterwork' in the rules is not one thing. You can have masterwork armour, masterwork weapons, masterwork tools, heck, even a masterwork backpack.
Each different masterwork 'type' has it's own unique game effects (including price). Masterwork thieves' tools provide a +2 circumstance bonus on disable device checks. Masterwork weapons provide a non-magical +1 bonus to attack rolls and cost 300gp more than a normal weapon of that type.
Masterwork armour provides a 1-point reduction in the armour's check penalty for a price of 150gp more than a normal suit of armour of that type. To quote that section of the CRB:-
'The masterwork quality of a suit of armor or shield never provides a bonus on attack or damage rolls, even if the armor or shield is used as a weapon.'
So you don't need to worry about masterwork scale armour (price 200gp) having masterwork gauntlets for free. The gauntlets may be masterwork as armour, but they are NOT masterwork as weapons, by RAW. now, you could have them made as masterwork weapons, but it would cost you 604gp for the pair, and they certainly would NOT come free with the masterwork armour.
Similarly, adamantine armour and weapons count as masterwork armour and masterwork weapons respectively. Although all the metal parts of the suit are adamantine, and therefore count as masterwork, they are masterwork ARMOUR, not masterwork WEAPONS, per the rule above.
Adamantine weapons have a different cost and different game mechanics to adamantine armour. The adamantine full plate comes with gauntlets as part of the price, but these gauntlets are NOT adamantine weapons! You can have some made if you want, but they would cost 6004gp for a pair, and would not come 'free' as part of a suit of adamantine full plate.
You can still punch people in the face with the gauntlets that come free with masterwork scale or adamantine full plate or what have you, and you would use the 'gauntlet' entry on the weapons table to find the game stats, but they or not...
In order for them to be masterwork as armor they would have to be armor, which they are not. In real life I would say they are armor, and a part of the suit, but in the game they are weapons. If the entry said a free longsword was being given away I don't even think this argument would be made, but people are having trouble disconnecting real life from fantasy.
I would probably rule that the gauntlets are adamantine but not MW weapons
So you would give them custom weapons that ignore hardness less than 20, with one-third more HP than normal, but inexplicably are not masterwork.
How would you price one of these? A normal adamantine gauntlet is 3,002 gp, a masterwork gauntlet is 302 gp. So a custom non-masterworked-yet-still-adamantine gauntlet is ... 2,702 gp?
Does this really seem more correct than just including normal gauntlets?
the 'adamantine weapon is always MW' is a great rule of thumb but it is a bit of a dumb rule at times, especially if the item was never meant to be a weapon or the MW component was never paid for.
The masterwork component is paid for. "the masterwork cost is included in the prices given below."
Are you suggesting that gauntlets were never meant to be weapons, despite being in the weapons table, having a weapon description, being changed specifically to be more clearly labeled as weapons in UE, functioning only as weapons, and being repeatedly stated to be weapons by multiple developers?
If I do not give players adamantine gauntlets they probably kick or body slam anything they want to break instead.
Since their adamantine armor is not a weapon, it does not have the natural ability to bypass hardness. If they want to bypass hardness, they need an adamantine weapon, not adamantine armor used as an improvised weapon.
I don't understand your point here, and I could not find this quote. Do you have a page number?As well, as Ultimate Combat states.
If a plate arm armor piece consists of a gauntlet, why would the Full Plate be less consistent in a more complete form?A plate arm armor
piece typically consists of pairs of pauldrons, gardbraces,
rerebraces, vambraces, and gauntlets...Page 198, under Armor Pieces and Armor Suits.
My point is that this is a piece of plate armor, and is inclusive of the gauntlet. That paragraph explains it in more detail.
The gauntlet is part of the arm: the arm is part of the armor: and the armor is made of one specific material, unless specifically stated that separate pieces are composed of different materials.
I read the section. It is on peicemail armor, and it says nothing about it having to be made of the same material. If Paizo rules that to be the it is fine with me. I just means I get a discount on any armor I buy since I never use gauntlets.
This is an instance of the game where we're not supposed to look too closely at the rules. Buuut that's what we're doing.
Regardless of RAW, my knee jerk reaction is to think that it's silly to suggest that only part of your stupid expensive armor is made of the material you paid for. However, a metallurgist/blacksmith might disagree. (I am neither, but I'm brainstorming.) Perhaps the periphery of the armor is alloyed so as to spread the material out more without sacrificing strength in the vital areas (the torso, mostly). So while the gauntlets are a part of the armor -- and let's not pretend that gauntlets do not serve a logical function as armor, RAW or no -- they may lack the purity of material that the chestpiece, shoulders, and upper legs, denying them the offensive qualities of adamantine.
I'm all for balance, but I cast my lot with those who think it's a petty issue to disconnect the gauntlets from the rest of the suit. Let 'em have their super-hard gauntlets.
If something has DR/adamantium and you're reduced to PUNCHING, you've already lost.
Actually you can get decent DPR with unarmed strikes as fighter so that argument does not really hold water.
Full Plate Armor says it comes with standard Gauntlets, and all the other junk.
It does not say that it's part of the Full Plate Armor.
There is also no correlary stated (or even implied) that the gear that comes with Full Plate Armor is upgraded on equal status to that of the Full Plate Armor you are purchasing.
You think Golarion blacksmiths are going to be all like "Hey, since you're getting this suit of armor made from Adamantine, I'll also upgrade the other items you get with it (that are independant from the suit you are purchasing) with the same material absolutely free!"
No. They are separate, mundane items. (Gauntlets are not pieces of armor, they are classified as weapons that come with the suit.) They're not going to give you upgrades for them free of charge because not only are some of the objects not made of the same material, but they are classified as completely different subjects.
It's especially not fair (or even intended by the rules) when you consider that characters who purchase Breastplates for armor have to pay 6,004 gold extra compared to somebody who purchases some other set of medium/heavy armor, who gets them for free because they "come with the suit".
It doesn't work that way in the society of today, and it sure as hell doesn't work in the days of old.
I think the rules are ambiguous on this, I think it's up to the DM and I don't think any decision will break the game. Personally I'd probably give'em the gloves since I think that makes the most sense, but I also think the rules do not spell it out clearly anyway so I wouldn't try to argue with a DM stating that I won't get it.
Stating that it can give infinite money if applying specific optional rules and having specific circumstances from only a specific campaign is really corner-case.
This whole "it includes, it's not part of" - I don't think it's as clear as some make it seem... Let's make a parallel.
If I go to my local McBurger, and look at the meals, they may have this:
Medium Burger Meal - Includes a medium soda and medium fries.
Now, whether or not this counts as "being part of the meal" - I don't really know. I'm not good enough with English to determine if there's any clarity in that. HOWEVER, if they also had this line:
Supersize - Add this to your normal meal and it will be one size larger!
or
Supersize - Add this to your normal meal and all parts of it will be one size larger!
If that was on the menu, and I bought a Medium Burger Meal and Supersize, I would probably assume that the soda and fries where also larger than normal, not just the burger. I guess it could be just the burger and they could argue that "well, the fries and soda are _included_ in the meal, they aren't actual _parts_ of it so supersize doesn't count towards them", but that would probably be seen as an ugly way of marketing and wouldn't (in my eyes at least) be the standard approach.
Also, To include is to contain as a part or member, or among the parts and members, of a whole.
So "include" isn't clear in if it's part of or not. Some things indicate it may be part of, others that it may not.
EDIT: Note that it specifically says "include", which by various dictionaries actually makes references to "being part of" rather than "comes with" which would indicate they are more separate.
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Page 198, under Armor Pieces and Armor Suits.Under Variant Rules, along with Called Shots and Wounds and Vigor.
The same rules you would use to let someone buy, say, an Adamantine chain arm armor piece for 2,525 gold, which would, by your ruling, include two adamantine gauntlets, which are worth 6,004 gp. Resulting in a 477 gp profit by selling the gauntlets and throwing away the chain armor.
In the beginning of this section on pg. 198 it also states:
All armor in the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game is
constructed of pieces and parts that are carefully (or
hastily) donned each time the armor is used.
The Plate arm armor piece being on of these. I'm not trying to get into the problems of cost, or the weaponizing or de-weaponizing of the piece. Only it's material construction. I understand that there are issues, however.
As well, the adamantium construction for all pieces should very well apply. Otherwise, a set of Dragonhide Full Plate would bear a generic steel set of gauntlets; thus rendering it unusable by druids, which isn't the case.
Haha, after all the back and forth on the thread here though, I'd be surprised if Paizo didn't release some errata on the subject.
Full Plate Armor says it comes with standard Gauntlets, and all the other junk.
It does not say that it's part of the Full Plate Armor.
There is also no correlary stated (or even implied) that the gear that comes with Full Plate Armor is upgraded on equal status to that of the Full Plate Armor you are purchasing.
You think Golarion blacksmiths are going to be all like "Hey, since you're getting this suit of armor made from Adamantine, I'll also upgrade the other items you get with it (that are independant from the suit you are purchasing) with the same material absolutely free!"
No. They are separate, mundane items. (Gauntlets are not pieces of armor, they are classified as weapons that come with the suit.) They're not going to give you upgrades for them free of charge because not only are some of the objects not made of the same material, but they are classified as completely different subjects.
It's especially not fair (or even intended by the rules) when you consider that characters who purchase Breastplates for armor have to pay 6,004 gold extra compared to somebody who purchases some other set of medium/heavy armor, who gets them for free because they "come with the suit".
It doesn't work that way in the society of today, and it sure as hell doesn't work in the days of old.
That is why I brought the issue earlier of people more likely saying no if the word "gauntlet" was replaced with the word "longsword". I do think that it deserves an official answer though.
edit:I saw the "druid" post which was just made. That is a good point. I am guessing that Paizo will say the druid does not have to wear the gauntlets.
edit 2:The rules only mention dragonhide armor being able to be made into armor not weapons(which a gauntlet is) so it seems to be a non-issue, now that I think about it.
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The druid can just throw away the steel gauntlets that would come with his dragonhide full plate with no loss to himself, so it doesn't really prevent them from using the armor if the gauntlets are steel. He just can't use the gauntlets
Looks don't influence the rules, and skimming the post allows you to miss important points. The fact that the weapons may cost more than the armor is one good reason to not allow it. At the least it is a big discount if someone decides to sell the gauntlets. Other post go into detail on the issue.How often will you need to punch something that has DR where the adamantine quality actually factors?
Sorry, I skimmed a bunch of the gauntlet-as-armor stuff, I'd assume they'd be adamantine if they are part of a suit of adamantine full plate, and sure you could sell or give them away if you replaced them with some other type of gauntlet.
But then you'll look kinda silly when your armor doesn't match, and you suddenly need to punch something with DR/adamantine.
(Caveat- I do not own nor have I read Ultimate Combat)
Point well taken. I view gauntlets as part of the set of armor they accompany. They are what they are, and I'd not allow them to be sold separately as a general rule. Merchants in my game would find little interest in a customer trying to sell just the gauntlets from her fancy suit of armor. They'd want the whole thing.I think I agree with you(?) in that respect. And no disrespect to anyone posting, I am of the mind that parceling armor is trite, in either its sale or acquisition. Just my opinion.
And I also tend to post tongue-in-cheek, so by 'looks' I was implying an image of a badass, falchion-wielding, adamantine-clad Arnold-type with bare hands. Just odd, that's all ;)
Dragonhide Full Plate is allowed for Druids to wear because the armor itself is made of the Dragonhide.
Going by definition of Full Plate, it comes with the standard of everything else. As I've said before, the items that Full Plate comes with are completely separate entities, the gauntlets included. They are classified as separate items. By RAW, they wouldn't be crafted with the same material as the Dragonhide Full Plate, as that is the only subject that was addressed to be created out of the Dragonhide.
Even with the PC specifically stating they want their other pieces of equipment (that they receive from the Dragonhide Full Plate) to be made as the same material, logically it should still cost them more. I mean, there is extra labor costs (with working with multiple materials that are more difficult and time-consuming to forge together), as well as base material costs in general to cover the entire order.
Back to the Adamantine...
Ultimately, it boils down as to what Paizo would classify as being included with weapons/armor that are created with special materials. Since a Gauntlet is classified as a type of Weapon, and the cost of getting medium/heavy armor has no indication or statement showing that medium/heavy armor cost covers the other subjects being made out of the same material, the answer is pretty obvious.
No, they aren't made out of the same special material. Medium/Heavy armor costs don't cover the costs of the other items being made out of the same material, so they are treated separately (i.e. under the categories that they represent, such as the Misc./Weapons categories).
Looks don't influence the rules, and skimming the post allows you to miss important points. The fact that the weapons may cost more than the armor is one good reason to not allow it. At the least it is a big discount if someone decides to sell the gauntlets. Other post go into detail on the issue.How often will you need to punch something that has DR where the adamantine quality actually factors?
Sorry, I skimmed a bunch of the gauntlet-as-armor stuff, I'd assume they'd be adamantine if they are part of a suit of adamantine full plate, and sure you could sell or give them away if you replaced them with some other type of gauntlet.
But then you'll look kinda silly when your armor doesn't match, and you suddenly need to punch something with DR/adamantine.
(Caveat- I do not own nor have I read Ultimate Combat)
Point well taken. I view gauntlets as part of the set of armor they accompany. They are what they are, and I'd not allow them to be sold separately as a general rule. Merchants in my game would find little interest in a customer trying to sell just the gauntlets from her fancy suit of armor. They'd want the whole thing.I think I agree with you(?) in that respect. And no disrespect to anyone posting, I am of the mind that parceling armor is trite, in either its sale or acquisition. Just my opinion.
And I also tend to post tongue-in-cheek, so by 'looks' I was implying an image of a badass, falchion-wielding, adamantine-clad Arnold-type with bare hands. Just odd, that's all ;)
I agree that selling the guantlet is not good for flavor and someone walking around with no gauntlets while all of the other full plate wearers did would look strang. However if I have a decent amount of gold laying around being practical trumps flavor. As for them being made of different materal, adamantine and mithral are all metal. If the armor is painted most people would not know the difference unless the armor was closely examined, and painted armor has always looked nice in the movies. :)