It came up.
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Returning: This special ability can only be placed on a weapon that can be thrown. A returning weapon flies through the air back to the creature that threw it. It returns to the thrower just before the creature's next turn (and is therefore ready to use again in that turn). Catching a returning weapon when it comes back is a free action. If the character can't catch it, or if the character has moved since throwing it, the weapon drops to the ground in the square from which it was thrown.
Moderate transmutation; CL 7th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, telekinesis; Price +1 bonus.
I don't think Returning is supposed to go on ammunition.
Returning: This special ability can only be placed on a weapon that can be thrown. A returning weapon flies through the air back to the creature that threw it. It returns to the thrower just before the creature's next turn (and is therefore ready to use again in that turn). Catching a returning weapon when it comes back is a free action. If the character can't catch it, or if the character has moved since throwing it, the weapon drops to the ground in the square from which it was thrown.
Moderate transmutation; CL 7th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, telekinesis; Price +1 bonus.
I don't think Returning is supposed to go on ammunition.
Ammo shot out of a weapon isn't a thrown weapon, it's ammunition.
Dunno what to say about something like a thrown rock or something...
RAW it cannot be put on ammunition (which is good as ammunition typically is destroyed when used), thrown weapons aren't destroyed when used (typically) so I imagine that is why the provision was put in for the ability.
It would only be an issue on Shuriken or other thrown weapons that use ammunition rules. Returning Shuriken that don't hit should return. I suppose there's a 50/50 chance of being destroyed, but I always figured that was because the ammo was like...hitting ground or something. If it's magically returning, it'd only break if it hit some barrier or object on the way to the target, so at the least break chance should be much lower than 50%. I'd just let all missed returning shuriken return to the thrower. *shrug*
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I would say, "Sure you can put it on arrows and bullets. Those that don't hit return. Please roll attack again. Oh and what was your AC?"
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I would say, "Sure you can put it on arrows and bullets. Those that don't hit return. Please roll attack again. Oh and what was your AC?"
... That would be really hilarious.
Shuriken: A shuriken is a small piece of metal with sharpened edges, designed for throwing. A shuriken can't be used as a melee weapon. Although they are thrown weapons, shuriken are treated as ammunition for the purposes of drawing them, crafting masterwork or otherwise special versions of them, and what happens to them after they are thrown.
Couldn't be made with Returning regardless.
It's a ranged thrown weapon. There's nothing in the rules that says you can't slap the property onto ammo (otherwise you wouldn't even be able to make magic ammo in the first place)
Regardless of the view on the matter, shuriken would be a fairly poor investment. Increasing the cost of the weapon in hopes of getting a percentage of them back VS. just making more of the less expensive version.
Hasn't this been asked before?
Didn't someone weigh in that the Returning quality only applies to thrown weapons that are not treated as ammunition? If so then Shuriken, arrows, bolts, and bullets can't be made returning.
It's a ranged thrown weapon. There's nothing in the rules that says you can't slap the property onto ammo (otherwise you wouldn't even be able to make magic ammo in the first place)Regardless of the view on the matter, shuriken would be a fairly poor investment. Increasing the cost of the weapon in hopes of getting a percentage of them back VS. just making more of the less expensive version.
Yes, I don't really see the point of it either.
You need +1 on it first, and returning is another +1 so 50 of them cost 8300 gp + the actual weapon.You can draw ammunition as free action already (if you throw them) and they use the magic stats of the weapon (if projectile) so they don't stack the +1 there either.
Also even without returning you can still search them after the fight manually.
A set of returning wushu darts would be nice though.
So adamantium ammunition should be destroyed when it hits??? These are inconsistencies in the rules which are metagaming rules.
I would allow a player to make/find arrows with returning but would price them as full magic weapons and not ammo. So a +1 returning arrow would be 8,000 gold, need to buy one for each attack though make them come back at the end of the round.
I think Catti-brie in the Drizzt novels had a bow and some arrows like this.
It would be much more easy just to buy an endless quiver or ammo pouch.
But yeah RAW it is a a big no no.
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Well, Ultimate Equipment has this:
CONSERVING
PRICE +1 BONUS
AURA moderate conjuration CL 7th WEIGHT —
This ability cannot be placed on firearms. Only projectile
weapons can be made conserving. When the wielder misses
with a ranged attack, the fired ammunition
teleports unharmed to its quiver, case, or pouch. If the
ammunition in question would be destroyed for other
reasons than merely being launched, such as an arrow that
breaks apart in flight, this special ability does not function
and the ammunition is destroyed as normal. Effects
that block teleportation prevent this special ability from
working.
CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS COST +1 bonus
Craft Magic Arms and Armor, abundant ammunition, dimension door
A set of returning wushu darts would be nice though.
So adamantium ammunition should be destroyed when it hits??? These are inconsistencies in the rules which are metagaming rules.
The main thing is it is more of lost or the Arrows shaft gets broken.
@Paraxis: I have found allowing magic Weapons and Armor (or at least ammo) to be made without that required +1. It leads to much more unique weapon combinations.
Well, Ultimate Equipment has this:
[conserving]
Still pretty useless.
It costs at least 6000 gp (assuming a +1 weapon, can be much much more expensive when you have more magic on the weapon).
Arrows cost 1 gp for 20, or 5 copper a piece. Which means you have to shoot AND MISS at least 120,000 arrows to break even. 240,000 if you normally go and collect the 50% unbroken ones yourself.
Yes, there are more expensive arrows of course. Bleeding arrow costs 360 gp (which btw, is absolutely insane!). Here you would get your money back after 34 misses. But honestly who would use that arrow that often.
I think there's no endless quiver in PF, but I guess you could enchant one with Abundant Ammunition for around 2000 gp.
I think last time my group figured it up it would be around 10,000 GP for a constantly active Abundant Ammunition Quiver. I have to recheck the math to be absolutely sure Though.
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It's a ranged thrown weapon. There's nothing in the rules that says you can't slap the property onto ammo (otherwise you wouldn't even be able to make magic ammo in the first place)
Ahem...
"Returning: This special ability can only be placed on a weapon that can be thrown. A returning weapon flies through the air back to the creature that threw it. It returns to the thrower just before the creature's next turn (and is therefore ready to use again in that turn). Catching a returning weapon when it comes back is a free action. If the character can't catch it, or if the character has moved since throwing it, the weapon drops to the ground in the square from which it was thrown.
Moderate transmutation; CL 7th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, telekinesis; Price +1 bonus."
Shuriken came up because it's one of the few items that is both a thrown weapon and ammunition. Most types of ammo are automatically excluded from being returning right out the gate.
There's nothing that protects the shuriken from the 50% chance of breaking or being rendered useless though, so you're not looking at a very good return on investment.