And... Bard (Arcane Duelist)


Advice


I've got a casual game going with a couple newcomers to the game. Though I originally began playing as a Ranger, I am quite optimized. I helped the new players create their characters, and made several recommendations, but by no means did i make the choices for them. Thus, they are not very optimized.

IN any case, i am looking to make an Arcane Duelist to replace my Ranger. First, because I can use Inspire Courage to help them feel more powerful, and get the spotlight to focus on them. Second, because magic users can be quite difficult for beginners to understand (and therefore counter). If i can do that for them, I feel that would be helpful.

20 point buy, human

STR 15 (17)
DEX 14
CON 12
INT 12
WIS 9
CHA 14

traits:
armor expert?
reactionary?

1 Power Attack
1 Exra Performance
(1) Arcane Strike
(2) Combat Casting
3 Step Up
5 Following Step
(6) Disruptive
7 Lunge
9 Step Up and Strike
(10) Spellbreaker
11 Toughness
13 Combat Reflexes
(14) Penetrating Strike
15 Lingering Performance?

The idea here would be to rock a longsword with power attack, and use Inspire Courage to buff up my green allies. 3/4 BAB with Power Attack ensures I don't hit all the time, and steal the show, the performances and buffs ensure my allies feel powerful and useful.

It should also give me a character that I will have fun playing, that isn't just a babysitter.

Any help or suggestions would be great!

Thanks.


Personally I'd not take Exra Performance. It's only useful for the first level, mayyyybe second, but that's it. Unless your DM likes big hack&slash dungeons?

Also, Arcane Duelists have to bond with their weapon at level 5.
Are you sure you want to bond with such a big weapon? I'd use a small weapon (ideally one that can be thrown), a ranged weapon or even spiked gauntlets.

Here a non-power idea:

Halfling

trait: river rat (+1 dmg to daggers)

focus your arcane bond on a dagger


I wouldn't take power attack, personally. If your intention is to create a support character that makes the rest of the party more powerful from the background, why make yourself worse at attacking when you could make yourself better at supporting instead?

You might actually be surprised how much spellcasting you can squeeze out of a bard!

I'd also say that Extra Performance is probably not going to help you that much. I don't know what style of game you're playing in, but I'm playing an Arcane Duelist myself and they've never once run out of performance rounds (they're currently level 10).

First, I would recommend taking Lingering Performance at first level. That way, you can use the Finale line of spells (especially Saving Finale) without your allies losing Inspire Courage for the rest of the round. Also, if you're really worried about running out of performance rounds at early levels, just cheese a little with Lingering Performance. Activating for one round and not maintaining = 3 rounds of benefit.

Second, I would recommend thinking carefully about whether STR is really more important to a support bard than CHA. You may not be casting a lot of DC spells, but your charisma will grant you more spells per day, and the ability to Haste your allies a second time is darn close to priceless.

Bards are INCREDIBLE as support characters; my own bard, though initially built with the intention of going melee with a longsword and shield, hasn't entered the fray in several levels because by the time I'm done buffing the party, there just isn't a battle left.

Inspire Courage + Haste + Good Hope + Coordinated Effort with Outflank = <3. Mirror Image yourself, sit back, and Jester's Jaunt your allies with a Metamagic Rod of Reach Spell to get them in position for a brutal full attack. Once you get to high levels, use Virtuoso Performance to get Inspire Courage and Bladethirst at the same time. It's a beautiful thing.


I went for STR, because they still have need of another melee character. (there is an Elf gunslinger (new player), a human magus, and a Rogue (new player).

at level 2, the gunslinger is still doing 1d8 damage, the rogue 1d6 +SA. The magus is doing better, but isn't super optimized. I think he might also ask to be a Bladebound instead.


Hector Gwath wrote:

1 Power Attack

1 Exra Performance
(1) Arcane Strike
(2) Combat Casting
3 Step Up
5 Following Step
(6) Disruptive
7 Lunge
9 Step Up and Strike
(10) Spellbreaker
11 Toughness
13 Combat Reflexes
(14) Penetrating Strike
15 Lingering Performance?

You can't take Power Attack at level 1 for a bard. It requires +1 BAB.

If you are interested in Lingering Performance, then taking it at level one in place of Extra Performance seems ideal.

If you are recreating a character simply to reduce your aura as an optimized character, then you may consider leaving STR at 14/15 to reduce that footprint further. You could optimize for defense instead of offense too.

Dumping WIS to 9 and then being the go to man for taking out the enemy casters seems... counter productive?


What level do you start at? what level do you expect to finish at?

Liberty's Edge

Why Arcane Duelist?

Giving up Versatile Performance and Bardic Knowledge really sucks...so the question needs to be asked why you are doing it. If it's just for Arcane Strike, it's a bad choice. If you really think you're going to wind up using Disruptive and Spellbreaker a lot it's probably worth it...but that's an awfully specific 'if'.

The bonded item also screws your spellcasting completely out of combat unless you grab a sword-cane or dagger, since you need it in hand to cast reliably.


Deadmanwalking wrote:

Why Arcane Duelist?

Giving up Versatile Performance and Bardic Knowledge really sucks...so the question needs to be asked why you are doing it. If it's just for Arcane Strike, it's a bad choice. If you really think you're going to wind up using Disruptive and Spellbreaker a lot it's probably worth it...but that's an awfully specific 'if'.

The bonded item also screws your spellcasting completely out of combat unless you grab a sword-cane or dagger, since you need it in hand to cast reliably.

I can't actually speak for the op's reasons, but Bladethirst and Rallying Cry are really fantastic, and once you get access to 4th level spells you can - assuming your DM allows spells from UC - have two performances up at the same time.

The bonus feats may seem circumstantial, but you'll be happpy when you need to cast defensively and have Combat Casting waiting there for you.


Hey OP - I ended up going with a VERY similar build. Here's what I did (I played a half-orc, so I'm shy one feat, but I get to wield a great-axe guitar):

1: Lingering Song, Arcane Strike (AD)
2: Combat Casting (AD)
3: Power attack
5: Bonded Greataxe (AD), Step Up?
6: Disruptive (AD)
7: Following Step?
9: Step Up + Strike?
10: Spellbreaker (AD)
11: Discordant Voice

The basic idea is that your full attacks suck, 'cause you're 3/4 BAB. But your single attack is going to be pretty great, because you've got all these bonuses to it. So you want to maximize the amount of pain you can do with a standard action.

To echo some stuff previous posters said:
Can't take power attack at 1. Take Lingering Song, and you probably won't need Extra Performance. At low levels, performing isn't super worth it anyways.

Lunge is a weak decision. 95% of the reason to take Lunge is to get full attacks when you would not otherwise get full attacks. As noted, your full attack is sort of mediocre. As such, Lunge isn't so good. If you've got a feat to burn, you could pick up Improved Initiative here.

Speaking of which, I'd take Improved Initiative as your human bonus feat. Going first is suuuuper good for a bard, as you get to buff everybody else before they go.

You should absolutely take Discordant Voice at 11. It is a no-brainer of a feat.

Likewise, you should eventually take power attack. =) Again, because you don't have terrific iterative attacks, the tradeoff is very good for you.

--------------

Here are my spell suggestions, so long as I'm writing a mini-guide to the melee arcane duelist. Things are listed from left to right in the order that I would take them.

0: Ghost Sound, Prestidigitation, Detect Magic, Mage Hand, Read Magic,
Comments: Duh. =)

1: Silent Image, Cure Light Wounds, Grease, Timely Inspiration, saving finale, Borrow Skill
Comments: Silent Image is incredibly versatile, and you're a super-respectable healer with CLW at low-levels. The Inspiration line of spells is a must-have, and it will make your allies feel super-awesome. But you don't really have spells to blow until like level 2 or 3, so no need to get it early. Great is the best 1st level spell in the game. Later on, it will be a handy buff to get people out of grapples.

2: Silence, Gallant Inspiration, Heroism, Glitterdust, Mirror Image, Cure Moderate Wounds, Blur
Comments: Silence is very good and versatile. Previous comments about inspiration spells stand. Glitterdust before heroism if you have no mages, CMW a bit earlier if you need to be party healer.

3: HASTE, GOOD HOPE, Sculpt Sound, Glibness, Arcane Concordance (if many casters), Purging Finale
Comments: Glibness third if your DM likes to let you get away with arbitrarily ridiculous bluffs, otherwise, check out Sculpt Sound. I like it because you can be wicked creative with it. It can be an all-day, party-wide no-footsteps spell, or a one-man-band, or a diversionary sound of an explosion.
Arcane Concordance is good if you've got 2+ other spellcasters in your party who do all-day buffs, for the free extend spell. Purging finale, again, saves your friends. Note that with lingering song, all of these finale spells feel a lot better. =)

4: Dimension Door, Freedom of Movement, Virtuoso Performance, Phantom Steed (Communal), Heroic Finale
Comments: None of these spells are awesome. I'm pretty damn unhappy with 4th level spells. Virtuoso performance isn't really worth it, even though you get to do two bardsongs at once, because it's incredibly action-inefficient.

--------

Anyhow. That's my advice. Get a 2-handed weapon or 1-handed and shield. Jack up your strength, and pick up charisma items occasionally to make sure you can cast appropriate spells. Buff at the beginning of combat, then decide whether or not you're going to be a buffer, flank-buddy, or the guy who sticks to the wizard like glue and makes him suffer terribly for casting spells.

-Cross (Hey, and I'd also welcome feedback on my build! My DM doesn't do traits, so I don't have any recommendations there.)

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