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I just want to ask for a clarification:
There is no explicit declaration that Melee Weapon Special Abilities added to a Body Wrap of Mighty Strikes can only be used at the "1/round, per iterative attack" statement.
So the question: Are any Special Abilities added to the item limited by the same restriction as the Enhancement Bonus?
(BTW: I have no stake in what the answer is, I just want to know how to correctly interpret the item.)
Thanks in advance!
(And forgive me if this was answered somewhere else -- I couldn't find it.)
This long cloth is wrapped around the chest multiple times like a bandage. Once per round, the wearer may add an enhancement bonus of +1 to +5 on one attack and damage roll for an unarmed strike or natural attack (for one specific attack, not all attacks made with an unarmed strike that round). The wearer may use this item an additional time per
round when his BAB reaches +6, +11, and +16.
Choosing to enhance an unarmed strike is not an action and may occur when it is not the wearer’s turn (such as when making an attack of opportunity). The wearer must decide to use the item before the attack roll is made, but does not have to expend all uses at the same time. For example, if the wearer can use the item twice per round, he can use it once on his turn when making an attack and save the second for the possibility of making an attack of opportunity.
Additionally, the bodywrap can grant melee weapon special abilities to a creature’s unarmed attacks, so long as those special abilities to be added apply to unarmed attacks. See Table 3–8: Melee Weapon Special Abilities (page 137) for a list of abilities. Special abilities count as additional bonuses for determining the market value of the item, but do not modify attack or damage bonuses. Any special abilities are set at the time of creation. A bodywrap of mighty strikes cannot have a modified bonus (enhancement bonus plus special ability bonus equivalents) higher than +7. Unlike an amulet of mighty fists, a bodywrap needs to have a +1 enhancement bonus to grant a melee weapon special ability.
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It sounds to me as if you can add "always-on" special abilities like holy or flaming to this, and it would work all the time. You'd price the added abilities just like you would to put them on an amulet of mighty fists.
Edit: actually, after re-reading it, I think you would add the special abilities, they'd apply to a single attack per round, and you'd price it based on the price listed (for example, a +1 flaming body wrap would cost the same as the listed price of a +2 bodywrap, and you could make your unarmed strike +1 and flaming once per round).
Yeah the item doesn't say anything about any ability being "always on" so you would use it as described for every ability added.
Okay, that sounds reasonable!
Barring any Paizo employee chiming in to the contrary, that's how I'll run it.
:D
There's no clear wording, one way or the other, but I think it's clear that the Special Abilities are used in the same way as the Enhancement bonuses, like usual. Here's why:
1- "...a bodywrap of mighty strikes cannot have a modified bonus (enhancement bonus plus special ability bonus equivalents) higher than +7."
So it works the same way as a magic weapon; the abilities equal a certain bonus (Flaming = +1, Holy = +2), so a special ability that is the same as a +3 bonus would be used in the same way that +3 bonus is.
2- I assume the item costs less than the Amulet of Mighty Fists. If a special ability added on to it would always be on (clearly better than not), how would such a Wrap be priced?
In other words, if the Market Price is listed as Xgp (+1), Xgp (+2)--and so on, instead of Xgp (+1)...X+Ygp (+1 and a special ability equivalent to +1), etc.--there's simply no logical way to claim that the special abilities function different from the thing they are equal to.
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There's no clear wording, one way or the other, but I think it's clear that the Special Abilities are used in the same way as the Enhancement bonuses, like usual. Here's why:
1- "...a bodywrap of mighty strikes cannot have a modified bonus (enhancement bonus plus special ability bonus equivalents) higher than +7."
So it works the same way as a magic weapon; the abilities equal a certain bonus (Flaming = +1, Holy = +2), so a special ability that is the same as a +3 bonus would be used in the same way that +3 bonus is.2- I assume the item costs less than the Amulet of Mighty Fists. If a special ability added on to it would always be on (clearly better than not), how would such a Wrap be priced?
In other words, if the Market Price is listed as Xgp (+1), Xgp (+2)--and so on, instead of Xgp (+1)...X+Ygp (+1 and a special ability equivalent to +1), etc.--there's simply no logical way to claim that the special abilities function different from the thing they are equal to.
It is priced at 3,000 gp x the bonus squared. I.e, +1 is 3,000 gp, +2 is 12,000 gp, +3 is 27,000 gp, +4 is 48,000 gp, +5 is 75,000 gp, +6 is 108,000 gp, and +7 is 147,000 gp.
Less than the AoMF, but more than a weapon . . . and it only applies to 1-4 attacks each round (based on the wearer's BAB) instead of all the attacks (like a normal magic weapon).
Now, back to the OPs question: I think you will find fairly quickly they will shoot down your idea. The special weapon abilities take the place of enhancement bonuses, and therefore can only be applied with then bodywraps bestow their enhancement bonuses. So, no constant flaming or holy wraps. Just on the 1-4 attacks enhanced each round.
I think that is how they will rule it.
MA
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The body wrap basically allows for the same effect as one weapon in your typical TWF set up. If I had to guess the "extra" cost associated with it is due to the fact you "choose" which attacks to bring it into play on. Mechanically TWF with a magical weapon means the last 2 attacks with that weapon are usually not likely to hit. With the wrap, you can choose to get the effects of your "weapon" on all the high BAB rolls. In this respect it is much better than one weapon of a TWF build.
I just thought of an interesting benefit to the way this item works.
While it only works for a specific number of attacks per round (i.e.: equal to the number of iterative attacks you get), it takes NO ACTION to activate (even being able to activate it for AoO).
This opens some interesting possibilities for the various energy abilities that normally require a command word (and a standard action) to activate (such as flaming or flaming burst. Very snazzy! Possibly part of the reason for the cost of the item.
I just thought of an interesting benefit to the way this item works.
While it only works for a specific number of attacks per round (i.e.: equal to the number of iterative attacks you get), it takes NO ACTION to activate (even being able to activate it for AoO).
This opens some interesting possibilities for the various energy abilities that normally require a command word (and a standard action) to activate (such as flaming or flaming burst. Very snazzy! Possibly part of the reason for the cost of the item.
Eh, standard action to activate was ruled to stay on and be capable of being sheathed without issue. Not saying your wrong, but probably not a large consideration. You can activate a flaming sword sheath it and sleep with it right there, it being ready for use. The standard action to activate typically doesn't come into play regularly.
Whoa whoa whoa, where was that done Skylancer?
Eh, standard action to activate was ruled to stay on and be capable of being sheathed without issue. Not saying your wrong, but probably not a large consideration. You can activate a flaming sword sheath it and sleep with it right there, it being ready for use. The standard action to activate typically doesn't come into play regularly.
Really?!?!
Can you point me in the direction of that ruling?
My halfling fighter in Legacy of Fire would LOVE that!
There's no clear wording, one way or the other, but I think it's clear that the Special Abilities are used in the same way as the Enhancement bonuses, like usual. Here's why:
1- "...a bodywrap of mighty strikes cannot have a modified bonus (enhancement bonus plus special ability bonus equivalents) higher than +7."
So it works the same way as a magic weapon; the abilities equal a certain bonus (Flaming = +1, Holy = +2), so a special ability that is the same as a +3 bonus would be used in the same way that +3 bonus is.2- I assume the item costs less than the Amulet of Mighty Fists. If a special ability added on to it would always be on (clearly better than not), how would such a Wrap be priced?
In other words, if the Market Price is listed as Xgp (+1), Xgp (+2)--and so on, instead of Xgp (+1)...X+Ygp (+1 and a special ability equivalent to +1), etc.--there's simply no logical way to claim that the special abilities function different from the thing they are equal to.It is priced at 3,000 gp x the bonus squared. I.e, +1 is 3,000 gp, +2 is 12,000 gp, +3 is 27,000 gp, +4 is 48,000 gp, +5 is 75,000 gp, +6 is 108,000 gp, and +7 is 147,000 gp.
Less than the AoMF, but more than a weapon . . . and it only applies to 1-4 attacks each round (based on the wearer's BAB) instead of all the attacks (like a normal magic weapon).
Where do you get the 3000g x Bonus Squared? Granted, I know this is a little off topic, but this was something I and my gaming group have been working on and feel we solved a while back.
Bracers of Armor give an Armor enhancement bonus up to +8, and running the numbers found on Table: Estimating Magic Item Gold Piece Values lists an Armor Enhancement Bonus as 1000g x Bonus Squared, which matches up perfectly with how much a Bracers of Armor cost.
We took this same formula and extrapolated it out using the cost for Weapon Enhancement Bonuses, which is 2000g x Bonus Squared, effectively creating a "Bracers of Mighty Strikes" that works exactly as a Bracers of Armor, but for unarmed and natural attacks.
Granted, I don't have the Ultimate Armory book yet, but I am curious as to where the 3000g x Bonus Squared cost comes from.
There's no clear wording, one way or the other, but I think it's clear that the Special Abilities are used in the same way as the Enhancement bonuses, like usual. Here's why:
1- "...a bodywrap of mighty strikes cannot have a modified bonus (enhancement bonus plus special ability bonus equivalents) higher than +7."
So it works the same way as a magic weapon; the abilities equal a certain bonus (Flaming = +1, Holy = +2), so a special ability that is the same as a +3 bonus would be used in the same way that +3 bonus is.2- I assume the item costs less than the Amulet of Mighty Fists. If a special ability added on to it would always be on (clearly better than not), how would such a Wrap be priced?
In other words, if the Market Price is listed as Xgp (+1), Xgp (+2)--and so on, instead of Xgp (+1)...X+Ygp (+1 and a special ability equivalent to +1), etc.--there's simply no logical way to claim that the special abilities function different from the thing they are equal to.It is priced at 3,000 gp x the bonus squared. I.e, +1 is 3,000 gp, +2 is 12,000 gp, +3 is 27,000 gp, +4 is 48,000 gp, +5 is 75,000 gp, +6 is 108,000 gp, and +7 is 147,000 gp.
Less than the AoMF, but more than a weapon . . . and it only applies to 1-4 attacks each round (based on the wearer's BAB) instead of all the attacks (like a normal magic weapon).
Where do you get the 3000g x Bonus Squared? Granted, I know this is a little off topic, but this was something I and my gaming group have been working on and feel we solved a while back.
Bracers of Armor give an Armor enhancement bonus up to +8, and running the numbers found on Table: Estimating Magic Item Gold Piece Values lists an Armor Enhancement Bonus as 1000g x Bonus Squared, which matches up perfectly with how much a Bracers of Armor cost.
We took this same formula and extrapolated it out using the cost for Weapon Enhancement Bonuses,...
From the item price in Ultimate Equipment? That is what is works out to is 3,000 gp x bonus squared.
MA
Whoa whoa whoa, where was that done Skylancer?
I want to say it was JJ in a post quite literally forever ago, maybe even back in PFRPG open testing. IIRC it was a post about a weapon with multiple abilities (flame, shock, etc.) and having to activate them seperately originally. You know how things go slightly off track at times lol.
Okay, I found the quote here and reprinted it for ease of sake:
While it's a command word to activate or deactivate a weapon like a flaming or a frost weapon... once activated it stays on. Sheathing it suppresses the energy automatically, and when you draw the weapon later it's ready to go. You'd only want to turn off the energy effect, as a previous poster said, when you're facing something that using that type of energy against is a bad idea.
So, now my big question is: Is this official?
I have one useage of Body wraps limited function thingy:
Brilliant energy.
Normally, you can't hurt undead/constructs with brilliant enery, but body wraps let you choose to use them since limited in number of attacks. Thus, you can hurt them while enjoying bypassing the armor bonus of enemies.
I will admit it is a niche benefit.
Okay, I found the quote here and reprinted it for ease of sake:
While it's a command word to activate or deactivate a weapon like a flaming or a frost weapon... once activated it stays on. Sheathing it suppresses the energy automatically, and when you draw the weapon later it's ready to go. You'd only want to turn off the energy effect, as a previous poster said, when you're facing something that using that type of energy against is a bad idea.So, now my big question is: Is this official?
As official as anything that isn't FAQ'd/Errata'd from any of the Paizo crew on the boards. The reality is Pathfinder is pretty much a collection of homebrew rules packaged up and published. And while backwards compatible there are a great deal of situations that don't function like they used to in regards to the parent 3.5 game for no reason other than they "don't" even though the wording is exactly the same.
By no means am I'm I being bitter about it if I come off that way, just stating that little things like this crop up and usually go without "official" answers.