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I have a question regarding traps that summon monsters (as the spell) and initiative. When a player triggers a trap that summons a monster, what kind of actions does the summoned creature get in relation to the start of initiative. Does it appear and then you roll initiative before taking any actions, does it get a surprise round, does it simply act first in initiative? Is this written anywhere or does anyone have any insight on this matter? Thank you!
Does the person that set off the trap know they set off a trap and that it is casting a spell?
If yes, did they make a spellcraft check to know that it is a summon monster Y spell?
If the answer to both is yes, then I would say it appears on the next round immediatly after the initiative order of the person that triggered the trap.
If the answer to either is no, then I would say it gets a surprise attack on the next round immediatly after the initiative order of the person that triggered the trap.
Don't know if that is RAW, but I think tha's how I would handle it.
I wouldn't roll initiative because I see it as kinda like the trap is continuously holding it's initiative until someone sets it off. So it would go off immedately after the initiative of the guy that tripped it. Full round casting time, so next round after the guy that sets it off.
That was my reasoning anyway.
When you summon a monster it acts on the same round and can attack. I don't see how a trap would be different.
In my games, the creature would appear immediately when the trap is triggered, and it would get a full round action directly following the person who triggered it.
When you summon a monster it acts on the same round and can attack. I don't see how a trap would be different.
The standard spell has "Casting Time 1 round"
Unless you want to assume the trap was created by a summoner and that a trap would be able to use his special ability to reduce the casting time.
When you summon a monster it acts on the same round and can attack. I don't see how a trap would be different.The standard spell has "Casting Time 1 round"
Unless you want to assume the trap was created by a summoner and that a trap would be able to use his special ability to reduce the casting time.
By that same logic it's also been "casting" since it was last used and holding the charge.
If you really want to nit pick just have the trap go off with no visible results until one full round later when a monster appears and tries to eat their head.
When you summon a monster it acts on the same round and can attack. I don't see how a trap would be different.The standard spell has "Casting Time 1 round"
Unless you want to assume the trap was created by a summoner and that a trap would be able to use his special ability to reduce the casting time.
Do magical traps typically wait until they can get a standard action to cast their spells in your games, thus allowing those who triggered it to potentially move away? If not, then I don't see why it should work any differently for this kind of trap.
By that same logic it's also been "casting" since it was last used and holding the charge...
I never really thought about it that way, but yeah that also works. Whichever version seems to have a basis in the game reality.
... If you really want to nit pick just have the trap go off with no visible results until one full round later when a monster appears and tries to eat their head.
That is the way I usually do it. That's why I asked the first question above. Does the dude that triggered the trap have anyway of knowing he set it off?
If not, then yes. (Say fighter strolling down a hallway and there is a trap that goes off if anyone taller than a halfling walks under it.) Next round he will be surprised.If he does, then maybe not. (Say a rogue found a trap but rolled poorly while trying to disarm.) Ok he knows 'something' is happening. Maybe he instantly starts running or goes into stealth. He has a round to try and get away or hide.
But maybe he is really an arcane trickster and succeeds at a spellcraft check. He knows a CR 5 baddie is going to be appearing close by very soon. He might start running, try to counterspell, casts invis, teleport away, etc...
By that same logic it's also been "casting" since it was last used and holding the charge...I never really thought about it that way, but yeah that also works. Whichever version seems to have a basis in the game reality.
... If you really want to nit pick just have the trap go off with no visible results until one full round later when a monster appears and tries to eat their head.That is the way I usually do it. That's why I asked the first question above. Does the dude that triggered the trap have anyway of knowing he set it off?
If not, then yes. (Say fighter strolling down a hallway and there is a trap that goes off if anyone taller than a halfling walks under it.) Next round he will be surprised.If he does, then maybe not. (Say a rogue found a trap but rolled poorly while trying to disarm.) Ok he knows 'something' is happening. Maybe he instantly starts running or goes into stealth. He has a round to try and get away or hide.
But maybe he is really an arcane trickster and succeeds at a spellcraft check. He knows a CR 5 baddie is going to be appearing close by very soon. He might start running, try to counterspell, casts invis, teleport away, etc...
I tend to think of traps as being designed to be quick simply for the fact that they're traps. That's just my opinion though.
Yeah, I don't ever recall a summoning trap being tripped and then PCs getting a fullround before it actually summons a creature. I definately think the creature would appear the moment the trap is triggerd, I'm just trying to determine if it gets any actions prior to the first round of combat in the initiative order.
... Do magical traps typically wait until they can get a standard action to cast their spells in your games, thus allowing those who triggered it to potentially move away? If not, then I don't see why it should work any differently for this kind of trap.
No waiting for it, the standard action occurs when the trap is triggered. And yes, if someone was moving at a full run when the lightning trap goes off, I'd probably give them a +2 on the reflex save.
But this has a full round casting time. So the full round starts when the trap is triggered.
I can buy into TCG's holding the charge. So if you want to use that it is very reasonable.
I would still say the summoned creatures initiative order is immediately after the guy that triggered it.
I will probably stick with the full round casting time, just cause I like the added suspense of the "Oh Carp!" moment when they know something is going to happen, but don't know what. I sometimes find that very ammusing.
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I would look at it two ways:
The party is aware of the magical trap: Allow the party spellcaster a Spellcraft check to determine what spell is being used. Roll initiative. Allow the trap to "interrupt" the initiative order and the monsters attack after the trap is sprung, followed by everyone else (generally if a party knows a trap is going to go off, they will delay until after it's open).
If the party is unaware of the trap: Allow the monsters a surprise round attack, followed by initiative, then proceed as normal.
To me the "magic" part of the trap is the spell being held dormant by the device until triggered. The spell has been cast in the creation of the trap and is just waiting to be released. Tick, tick, tick....Boom.