I need help designing my new paladin


Advice


A couple of days ago, I posted my new paladin idea. Well, I think I'm missing something, because I can't figure out why I can't make him work. And then it hit me: I have absolutely no experience with Pathfinder, and my 3.5e days are a long, long time ago.

A little note here: Our local Venture-Captain has put a moratorium on books in that you can't use books you don't own, except for the Core book. So, this has to be a Core build. (However, if someone has ideas that could be used from those other books, I'd appreciate the advice -- just remember that I don't have those books.)

Now, here's what I want: a trip-master paladin. I don't need to do damage, this is for Pathfinder Society and I've never really seen a need to end battles quickly in PFS. There are some stipulations to the character which will sound odd, and I'm sure that some of you will say "Why don't you play a rogue instead?" No. I want a paladin. And he will stay a paladin for all 12 levels, so no multiclassing.

Stats: NO DUMP STATS. This is for roleplaying. No Wisdom 7; in fact, no stats below 10. PERIOD.

He'll be wearing studded leather and using a rapier; yes, I know Paladins normally tank up and do the smiting thing. Don't wanna tank up.

I want to not be a hindrance in battle, but I don't mind not doing damage. Trip, disarm, these things I like. Damage, smiting, not so much. I tried it myself but trying to figure out CMB and CMD made my eyes cross. Like I said, my 3.5e days are a long time ago -- I'm much more into 4e these days.

Sovereign Court

Go Bard instead with those stats and use a whip from 15ft away. If you somehow live as a pally with rapier and leather tripping stuff you will not be pleased at higher levels when it is no longer effective.


I know that you said no multi-classing but seriously, this is the best way to get a trip master.

Take a second level dip into monk and take Maneuver Master. it lets you get a free trip attempt (assuming that you take improved trip as you bonus feat)each round.

Sczarni

Tripping will die down because it is like the only maneuver that has a size limitation...just a heads up.


No matter your level, you will still encounter things of medium size. And failing that some Large...


I imagine you are building this character to be more of the noble/face of the group character and less of the knight in shining armor. I totally appreciate where you are coming from, because I also enjoy building themed characters that break away from the norm.

That being said, is there a better choice for a weapon than the rapier that might help out in your tripping/disarming tactics. Obviously the rapier is a weapon of choise among the refined lords, but I'm just wondering if there's something else that could fit the bill that might give you an edge since there are only so many feats that will improve your tripping or disarming abilities.

Looking at other things that might help you out, possibly going with Improved Feint as a feat might work for you. Bluff not matching up with Paladins well notwithstanding if you can remove someone's Dex modifier temporarily it might make them easier to trip or disarm as that should lower their CMD if only for a moment.

Alternatively (and possibly an easier route) you could beef up your intimidation and attempt to demoralize your opponents before moving in for the manuever. I believe the feat Intimidating Prowess could help with this as will stack your Strength and Charisma modifiers for a better Intimidation check, although I'm not sure if demoralizing your opponent will lower their CMD or not.

As far as traditional ways to pull off what you are trying to do without dipping into this splat book or that splat book, that's about as good as I got. Good luck!


So you don't want to multiclass or dump stats, and want a Combat Maneuver focused Paladin? That might be tricky, but not impossible

Human Paladin
Str 18 (16 +2 racial) Dex 10 Con 12 Int 13 Wis 10 Cha 14

1st Lvl: Combat Expertise
HM: Fey Foundling (I don't play PFS, so I don't know if this feat's legal; but it's awesome for Paladins!)
3rd Lvl: Improved Trip
5th Lvl: Power Attack
7th Lvl: Greater Trip
9th Lvl: Felling Smash

You can switch Greater Trip and Felling Smash if you want.

Also, I didn't include the attribute increase from 4th adn 8th level, but I suppose you should use them on Str.

With a Belt of Giant Strength +2 and a +1 weapon, such as a longspear, you can get a 18~20 Trip CMB and 26~27 Trip CMD

Edit: I forgot, but since you're a Paladin, you might want to work Adept Champion somewhere in the build.

Shadow Lodge

With just the core rule book it will be very difficult to get what you want. I would recommend buying PDFs of the books you wish to use and printing of permanent pages. This will save you a lot of money. I would recommend the GM core assumption: Core Rule Book, Advanced Players Guide, Ultimate Combat, Ultimate Magic, Bestiary and Bestiary 2. Then you have options to make your build work.


From the build I posted, only 2 Feats are not in the CRB; Fey Foundling and Felling Smash.

You can switch those without any problem. You could take Weapon Focus or Improved Feint instead of Fey Foundling, who knows.

And Full BAB + High Str + Power Attack + Smite Evil will make sure you still have a high damage output when necessary.


First off, I'd like to thank you all for your advice.

I've decided, though, that this will be a Dex-based build, not a Str-based. This does mean that I'll be faced with a 4 point lack in my CMB. Hopefully the character will still be viable. If not, then the character will be unplayable and I'll try something else.

Here's the build I have right now:

Human Paladin
STR 10 DEX 18 (16 +2 Racial) CON 12 INT 13 WIS 10 CHA 14
4th: +1 Dexterity
8th: +1 Dexterity
12th: +1 Dexterity

Favored Class Bonus: Skill Points

Traits: Bully (Intimidate as a class skill), Charming (RP)

Skills at 1st: Diplomacy, Intimidate, K: Nobility, Profession, Heal

Feat Progression:
1st: Combat Expertise
Human: Weapon Finesse
2nd @ Fighter: Combat Reflexes
3rd: Improved Trip
4th @ Fighter: Improved Disarm
5th: Weapon Focus: Rapier
7th: Greater Trip
9th: Greater Disarm
11th: Dazzling Display

I've decided that multiclassing is unavoidable if I really want to get where I want to be. But multiclassing into monk is useless; though it gives me Stunning Fist for free, I don't see that being an attack I'll regularly use. Plus the bonus feat it offers doesn't include Improved Trip until you hit Monk 6.

Obviously I'm doing the Intimidate option as mentioned above, but Intimidating Prowess is useless to me, as I've no Strength bonus. I'm wondering if I should drop Weapon Focus (and Dazzling Display) for Skill Focus: Intimidate instead.

Again, folks, I only currently have access to the Core rulebook, so I can't cite options from other books.

And again, thanks for all y'all's help.


If you take Maneuver Master, Improved Trip becomes an available bonus feat.
are you looking to be standard low armor Rapier wielder? Then the WIS bonus to AC will also be helpful. When unarmored and unencumbered, the monk adds his Wisdom bonus (if any) to his AC and his CMD.

Also Improved unarmed strike might not seem all that handy when you are geared up but comes into it's own in grapples and when your gear just isn't right handy (night attacks, etc)

Also +2 to ALL saves.


John-Andre wrote:
Obviously I'm doing the Intimidate option as mentioned above, but Intimidating Prowess is useless to me, as I've no Strength bonus. I'm wondering if I should drop Weapon Focus (and Dazzling Display) for Skill Focus: Intimidate instead.

Another feat you may want to look into is Agile Manuevers. As it sounds you would basically just trade Dex for Str when you calculate your CMB so you get your 4 points back.

Once again, kudos to you for creating a character who is off the beaten path. I'm sure he will be a fun character to play, and a memorable comrade to your fellow players!

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