
setzer9999 |
A pair of dimensional shackles are called "shackles" but, the description doesn't mention anything about them restricting any physical movement or capability. By RAW, is there a "chain" or something between them that would prevent mundane use of your arms if you were wearing these?
I ask, because wearing these on purpose would be a way to prevent yourself from being the subject of a maze spell, or some unwanted forced teleportation or planar travel that could kill you. Yes, it would also make it so you could not use teleportation too, but if you were worried about conjuration and teleportation magic being used against you in creative ways, a constant dimensional anchor 24/7 could be a good thing... but it would also suck if you were so restricted you were bound like a prisoner in handcuffs and limited thusly too...

Gobo Horde |

These shackles have golden runes traced across their cold iron links. Any creature bound within them is affected as if a dimensional anchor spell were cast upon it (no save). They fit any Small to Large creature. The DC to break or slip out of the shackles is 30.
Manacles can bind a Medium creature. A manacled creature can use the Escape Artist skill to slip free (DC 30, or DC 35 for masterwork manacles). Breaking the manacles requires a Strength check (DC 26, or DC 28 for masterwork manacles). Manacles have hardness 10 and 10 hit points.
Most manacles have locks; add the cost of the lock you want to the cost of the manacles.
A helpless character is paralyzed, held, bound, sleeping, unconscious, or otherwise completely at an opponent's mercy. A helpless target is treated as having a Dexterity of 0 (–5 modifier). Melee attacks against a helpless target get a +4 bonus (equivalent to attacking a prone target). Ranged attacks get no special bonus against helpless targets. Rogues can sneak attack helpless targets.
Dexterity measures agility, reflexes, and balance. This ability is the most important one for rogues, but it's also useful for characters who wear light or medium armor or no armor at all. This ability is vital for characters seeking to excel with ranged weapons, such as the bow or sling. A character with a Dexterity score of 0 is incapable of moving and is effectively immobile (but not unconscious).
Emphasis mine. A strict reading of the rules would have you come to the conclusion that if ever you got bound by manacles or shackles, you would effectively be bound head to foot and unable to even move or walk. This isnt the irons attached to your ankles and wrists with chains, this is more like a full strait jacket!
To complicate matters further, here is barbs...
Barbs added to these manacles wound a captive who does more than move slowly and with care. A creature secured in barbed manacles takes 1 point of piercing damage if it takes more than a single move action during a round. Rough movement of any kind, such as being struck in combat or falling prone, likewise causes 1 point of damage. Attempting to break out of barbed manacles with a Strength check deals 1d4 points of piercing damage to the captive regardless of the success of the attempt.
This would make it seem as if you could move while bound. there is also fetters that only bind the legs. Someone with better lawyer esquire might be able to make more clear sense of this than me but the first 4 quotes should give you what you need to know.

Gobo Horde |

If I were to attempt to fix this (assuming my knowledge is correct) I would probably house rule that shackles and manacles would have you count as helpless in regards to your hands only. Or I would make it so that you can only take single move actions as if you had barbed fetters (without the damage).
Hope that helps!

setzer9999 |
Isn't all of that a house ruling though? The dimensional shackles item doesn't say what kind of gear it is. It only says its a wondrous item that takes up a wrist slot. The name doesn't imply what the device does aside from your own imagination and house ruling on the matter. The only thing the description text says is the effect of the item is that it produces a dimensional anchor effect on the wearer.

MicMan |

The usage of the word "bound" in the text is the only indication that theses shackles are anything more than bracers that can be locked upon the wearer in some way to prevent the wearer from simply removing them.
However it would make really no sense for such a punitive item to not somehow restrict the nornmal movement of the wearer in addition. I always treated these as handcuffs given their slot.

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But, really, think of it, you want to prevent the wearer to escape - would you make your Dimensional Shackles easy to wear with this in mind?
You can always lock people in iron coffins if you don't want them to escape. Anything less then that is obviously intended to give your wearer some freedom. If you're holding valuable noble prisoners, it may behoove you to make them as comfortable as possible, while not letting them teleport away. You don't want to make them like common prisoners by shackling them hand and foot; that'll cost you when the war's over, and may have negative repercussions on your prisoners.

Gobo Horde |

Isn't all of that a house ruling though? The dimensional shackles item doesn't say what kind of gear it is. It only says its a wondrous item that takes up a wrist slot. The name doesn't imply what the device does aside from your own imagination and house ruling on the matter. The only thing the description text says is the effect of the item is that it produces a dimensional anchor effect on the wearer.
Ouch...
Ok first of all, my second post was me trying to 'make it more realistic' and trying to make a house rule for an otherwise harsh interpretation of the rules.My first post was referencing how manicles and shackles 'bind' the target, and how being 'bound' was considered a type of effect that caused you to be helpless. Since I was unable to find any other 'definition' for bound, aside from being pinned, this is the conclusion I came to. I also stated that someone with more rules savvy could pobably get you better information and as it is (IMO) exessivly strict, I offered an idea to get the juices flowing on what might work.
Btw if you search the internet for pictures, its actually not that hard to see how someone would be completely at the mercy of another with these on. It doesnt explain how they would not be able to run away tho ;)

Are |

You're not automatically helpless by wearing shackles.
The text in the "helpless" condition is talking about being completely at an opponent's mercy, with "bound" as one of its possibilities. It obviously refers to being bound in a way that makes it impossible to escape (such as ropes binding both hands and feet).
Regular shackles, while binding your hands, don't bind your feet as well. So you would need some other way to bind the person to make him "completely at an opponent's mercy".

setzer9999 |
By the RAW, it doesn't even say how the shackles would bind you specifically at all. Why would something need to bind you physically to bind you metaphysically/magically?
The shackles themselves are hard to get off, but that doesn't mean that they are restrictive. They could just be bound onto the wrists, but not restrict movement at all if there is no chain or bar between them. What if the chain were 2 or 3 feet long?
I don't think it unreasonable to produce an item that prevents teleportation without the need for a restrictive chain or bar on it.

Aelryinth RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16 |

Note these are Dimensional Shackles...which means they are, by the book, standard shackles designed to imprison something and keep them helpless. They take up the wrist slot, meaning you can't be wearing something on the wrist once you clap them on.
If you want to make a pair of Dimensional Bracers, i.e. same effect, NOT bracers, should be same price, but won't bind up anyone. Sounds like an efficient use of the wrist slot for a melee character.
==Aelryinth

Quixote |

Assuming they are actually manacles, I assume you could break the chain that connects them, or get some blacksmith to undo one of the links, if your DM would consider breaking the chain to equal breaking the item.
Plus, it would give you the "recently-freed-gladiator" look. Always a bonus.
Seriously, though, these things are 28,000 lions or crowns or whatever. A lot of money, for something very specific. More over, they're defensive, so you can't even use them in some big dumb combo that leads to infinite damage. I'd assume that every DM ever would be cool with this. I know I'd be wrong in the assumption, but I'd assume it anyway, in hopes there are more reasonable people in the world.

KRNVR |
If you're buying them made to order, just measure up from your wrist over your shoulder across your back and down to the other wrist, and get that much chain. For that fine cheesy taste, ask about some AC for that. For that old school iron rations taste, be sure to add to the weight for the length of chain.
As a GM, I think I'd allow a purpose-built set to be made without any chains, in fact, since I don't feel the 'shackle' term to be crunch, just flavor.

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A shackle does not have a chain. The use of 'links' in the description implies that a chain is present and that it connects more than one shackle (2? 4?). I'd personally say that these can be created in whatever form the creator wants, from a single bracelet-like shackle with an ornamental dangling chain, for paroled noble wizards, up to a heavy-chained iron contraption with 9 shackles, to be used for restraining Mariliths for whatever reason.

勝20100 |
According to two dictionaries (and wiktionary) shackles are joined by a chain, and are used either on wrists or ankles to prevent prisoner escape. The description start with “These shackles.” It also mention links as in chain links. It is clear there is a chain between them and it’s intended to prevent some movement.
Dimensional Bracers seems a feasible custom magic item.

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According to two dictionaries (and wiktionary) shackles are joined by a chain, and are used either on wrists or ankles to prevent prisoner escape. The description start with “These shackles.” It also mention links as in chain links. It is clear there is a chain between them and it’s intended to prevent some movement.
I wonder if that is a US/UK difference then, as to me shackles are the hardware pictured on the link I gave and what you refer to are manacles. No matter either way I guess.

勝20100 |
勝20100 wrote:I wonder if that is a US/UK difference then, as to me shackles are the hardware pictured on the link I gave and what you refer to are manacles. No matter either way I guess.According to two dictionaries (and wiktionary) shackles are joined by a chain, and are used either on wrists or ankles to prevent prisoner escape. The description start with “These shackles.” It also mention links as in chain links. It is clear there is a chain between them and it’s intended to prevent some movement.
Shackle, singular noun, is apparently a USA regionalism. The plural noun always denote manacles (manacles is a plural noun). (I had to search on the Web to find that out, my home dictionaries only had shackles in plural form. shackle, shackels). On top of it, links in the description means there is a chain, doesn’t it?

MicMan |

Description
These shackles have golden runes traced across their cold iron
links. Any creature bound within them is affected as if a dimensional anchor spell were cast upon it (no save). They fit any Small to Large creature. The DC to break or slip out of the shackles is 30.
Emphasis mine. I think we can agree that this is not the description of Bracers but instead it can be deducted that these are indeed manacles like the one depicted at page 156 of the core rule book.
Really, I just wait for someone to point out that the horse on page 159 can't be ridden because it doesn't state there that is it a riding horse (hey, it says so for the dog)...

setzer9999 |
Quote:Description
These shackles have golden runes traced across their cold iron
links. Any creature bound within them is affected as if a dimensional anchor spell were cast upon it (no save). They fit any Small to Large creature. The DC to break or slip out of the shackles is 30.Emphasis mine. I think we can agree that this is not the description of Bracers but instead it can be deducted that these are indeed manacles like the one depicted at page 156 of the core rule book.
Really, I just wait for someone to point out that the horse on page 159 can't be ridden because it doesn't state there that is it a riding horse (hey, it says so for the dog)...
This is faulty logic. You don't have to be bound hand and foot to be bound by something. These are said to be bind you, because of the mechanics that ARE present in the description. It is hard to get them off, so they are binding. There is a DC to take them off, rather than that you can simply remove them like other gear. The item has, in addition to the magical properties, a physical property such that there is a locking mechanism on the item that keeps the user from removing them from their wrists.
There is no reason to assume that this means there is a 2 inch chain between the two wrist items preventing you from a full range of motion on your arms, or that it has anything to do with binding your feet either.
Also, as was pointed out above, a published adventure that used this item describes it specifically as NOT having any chain or restricting the movement of the wearer at all. The person wearing them was wearing them for the express intentional purpose of not being able to be the target of unwanted teleportation, but did not have their movement restricted. Check Vendle's post above.

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Are there people saying that these are worse than the ones that the monk wears to gain the vow of chains?
Vow of Chains: Either out of penitence or to bring attention to the suffering of the enslaved, the monk wears shackles on his wrists and legs. This gives the monk a –1 penalty on attack rolls and to AC, and reduces his movement by 10 feet. If temporarily unable to wear his chains, he may carry rocks or some other heavy burden (including medium or heavy armor) to simulate this suffering. A monk with this vow increasing his ki pool by 1 ki point for every 3 monk levels (minimum +1).
The monk is shackled, both wrists and legs, and all this does is the following:
-1 Attack rolls
-1 AC
-10 ft, speed.
Most people who are shackled to restrict movement have the shackles attached to a wall, pegged to the floor, or held by someone else to keep them from escaping.
The shackles themselves to not create a "helpless" situation. Only hindered. At worst I would have a shackled person be "entangled". The description for it out of the book describes being shackled pretty well:
Entangled: The character is ensnared. Being entangled impedes movement, but does not entirely prevent it unless the bonds are anchored to an immobile object or tethered by an opposing force. An entangled creature moves at half speed, cannot run or charge, and takes a –2 penalty on all attack rolls and a –4 penalty to Dexterity. An entangled character who attempts to cast a spell must make a concentration check (DC 15 + spell level) or lose the spell.