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Actually I would say the reason is because classically speaking Charisma has always been the purview of Paladins. Even the example Paladins given in the original D&D were characters known more for their conviction and personality than for their wisdom...Lancelot, Gawain, Roland and even King Arthur. These characters embody the idea of the Paladin and all were strong of faith and personality but not always Wise... and no I'm not talking out my rear... I get most of this from Gygax himself... AD&D PHB and early editions of Dragon from articles written by Roger Moore one of D&D's great earlier contributors. 3.5 D&D as well as Pathfinder just added a mechanic to make it fit into their gamescape and thus keep it from being a dump stat like it is for so many other classes.
Paladins used to use Wisdom, way back. But as mentioned, that made them reliant on too wide a swath of abilities to be functional. It was incredibly difficult to create a workable paladin when you were using the rolling method. Using Charisma, to my mind, actually fits the fluff of a noble warrior on a shining steed, in resplendent armor, both powerful and humble.
Clerics, on the other hand, ought to be wise. Charisma is good for them, but not near as important to both fluff and mechanic as Wisdom is (after all, it is likely your paladin reports to a high level cleric, since those are likely to be the leaders of his church; they ought to be wisest of all). There is a middle ground there, and I think you have to take that into consideration. You can't go evaluating based only on those aspects of a character class that you happen to like the best. If you do that, with no thought to neutrality, then you're going to end up going in circles, arguing for the sake of it, and end up with a thread... well, with a thread as long as this one has become!
Bottom line. Has anybody's game been broken by this? I already know the answer: it hasn't. Move on.
Yeah, forgot about bonus spells from Wisdom.I still think that clerics need about 4 abilities to really do their job well.
How in the world do you get a +14 weapon? A weapon can't have an enhancement bonus of greater than +10.
because there has no been firm ruling on stacking Greater Magic weapon and enhancement limits on weapons.
A Mace +1 Holy Axiomatic Speed Wounding mace with a CL 20 +5 Greater Magic Weapon on it is a +14 Weapon.
A +1 Holy mace, which you might have at level 10-12, can be made +3 with a Greater Magic weapon, resulting in a +5 weapon, better then the melee in the party.
It's the same reason why Paladins don't have problems fighting Neutral creatures...they trot out mystic bonds to their swords, and increased magic on their weapons makes up for not being able to kick the ass of Evil, keeping them in the damage game.
==Aelryinth
Would also like to note that you can get a 16 Dex for any character by starting with a 10 Dex, although more then likely you want a 12 Dex so they can get the bonus with full plate.
A Paladin is unlikely to get mithral full plate until level 10+ due to the cost, and can pick up a dex enhancer soon after.
A cleric is unlikely to max out their dex/armor, but given their other resources to raise AC, this generally is not a problem.
==Aelryinth
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Yeah, forgot about bonus spells from Wisdom.I still think that clerics need about 4 abilities to really do their job well.
How in the world do you get a +14 weapon? A weapon can't have an enhancement bonus of greater than +10.
because there has no been firm ruling on stacking Greater Magic weapon and enhancement limits on weapons.
A Mace +1 Holy Axiomatic Speed Wounding mace with a CL 20 +5 Greater Magic Weapon on it is a +14 Weapon.
A +1 Holy mace, which you might have at level 10-12, can be made +3 with a Greater Magic weapon, resulting in a +5 weapon, better then the melee in the party.
It's the same reason why Paladins don't have problems fighting Neutral creatures...they trot out mystic bonds to their swords, and increased magic on their weapons makes up for not being able to kick the ass of Evil, keeping them in the damage game.
==Aelryinth
Yeah, I don't let that crap fly in my games. The rules explicitly say that "A single weapon cannot have a modified bonus (enhancement bonus plus special ability bonus equivalents, including those from character abilities and spells) higher than +10."
I view it like this:
Cleric, taking an hour in the morning to pray to God for spells: Dear Lord, your humble servant asks that you grant him your holy boon on this most glorious day so that I might spread your word across the land."
Paladin, taking an hour in the morning to pray to God for spells: Hey God, I heard you like things rough and righteous. Well, if that's the case, why don't you go on and give daddy some spells? I've seen the way you look at me when I'm out smit'n stuff in your name. It gets you worked up doesn't it? Well, you're welcome God. But if you wanna keep that goin' you gotta share the love, know what I'm sayin'?
Except charisma is the stat that governs how well you are able to formulate and convey stuff. A person with high cha will have an easier time sucking up, because no matter how you look at it, interaction is all about cha.
I have always found it weird that charisma is not the default religious stat. Wis is supposed to be the stat that governs common sense, and Cha is the one about convincing people to believe the stuff coming out of your mouth, and sucking up to the higher ups.
Did Bards use Int to cast back in the day? It has been awhile since I have played the older editions, and everything blends together now.
Int did everything arcane. Wis did everything divine. Cha did jack and poop. But then again, your spells were as potent if you had Int 11 or Int 25, as stats did nothing for the power of your magic. You were just cut off from the highest levels of spells, and had a lower chance of learning new ones.
Having people cast off Cha is a 3e phenomenon, which rustled some jimmies back in the day, I recall. Not that it mattered much. Most Cha casters in 3.0 were garbage compared to the Int/Wis crew. Making the sorcerer and bard able to hold their own is a PF phenomenon.
I have always found it weird that charisma is not the default religious stat. Wis is supposed to be the stat that governs common sense, and Cha is the one about convincing people to believe the stuff coming out of your mouth, and sucking up to the higher ups.
Couldn't agree more.
Stick me in the camp that thinks Paladins/Clerics should both be spontaneous Cha casters.I think I might take a page out of the 5ed playtest rules for my Clerics in the future actually, as to "how" they cast their spells.
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In my opinion, AC is a sucker's game. Mitigation is where it's at.
ac is a form of mitigation. but like you said i like to have at least 7x level in hp (assuming rolled hp and not some wierd home brew hp system.) but i also like to have 3.5 times my level in ac.
Str 18
Dex 16
Con 14
Int 08
Wis 14
Cha 14And that's a pretty tall order.
i would settle for these:
14
10
14
7
16
14
as a cleric i use wands of shield and umd as my skill of choice.it works out very well. also remember that "hitting" in melee isnt even a necessity in PF. your domain choices and summon monster are more then enought o let you keep your place in a party... have you ever seen the Law(arbiter) domain, so sexy!
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What job is that? They're primary spellcasters, they can sit in the back chucking monsters at their opponents instead of getting up in their grill. That's their combat. They don't even need HP or AC unless you run against a ranged combatant, who are relatively rare.
If they want to be awesome at their job, they need 2 stats. Wisdom for spells and charisma for channeling.
+5 Distance, Flaming, Frost, Shock, Seeking Bow
+1 Bane, Brilliant energy/Holy/Axiomatic/Anarchic (pick 2, so long as it isn't Axiomatic/Anarchic) arrows.
Those aren't stats for a cleric, those are stats for buff me up, and go sit in the corner while the rest of us handle this, afterwards I'll let you heal me up.
Everyone needs Con, I haven't made a character in years that has had lower than a 12 and that's only due to racial penalties because sooner or later something will hit you.
If you want to hit and do damage in melee, strength can't be dumped, at least a 13, 14 or higher is preferred.
Dex is necessary because you need some early AC and reflex is a poor save for you and if you want to cast something on the party it helps if you can go before them so that you can actually hit the whole party.
If you want to be useful out of combat you can't dump Int either or you get no skills.
have you ever seen the Law(arbiter) domain, so sexy!
Nope, sure haven't. Isn't on d20pfsrd.com either. Got a link?
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In my opinion, AC is a sucker's game. Mitigation is where it's at.ac is a form of mitigation. but like you said i like to have at least 7x level in hp (assuming rolled hp and not some wierd home brew hp system.) but i also like to have 3.5 times my level in ac.
Actually, AC is avoidance, not mitigation.
If you think about it this way:
Avoidance is when you completely avoid damage from a source.
Mitigation is when you take damage from a source, but then absorb it/reduce it
Avoidance in Pathfinder is obtained by things like AC and Concealment
Mitigation in Pathfinder is obtained by things like DR, Resist Energy, Shield Other/Friend Shield, and having a big HP pool.
Ya know, when I was browsing sub-domains, I figured that might be the one you meant. But ya never know. ^^
What job is that? They're primary spellcasters, they can sit in the back chucking monsters at their opponents instead of getting up in their grill. That's their combat. They don't even need HP or AC unless you run against a ranged combatant, who are relatively rare.
If they want to be awesome at their job, they need 2 stats. Wisdom for spells and charisma for channeling.
+5 Distance, Flaming, Frost, Shock, Seeking Bow
+1 Bane, Brilliant energy/Holy/Axiomatic/Anarchic (pick 2, so long as it isn't Axiomatic/Anarchic) arrows.
Those aren't stats for a cleric, those are stats for buff me up, and go sit in the corner while the rest of us handle this, afterwards I'll let you heal me up.
Everyone needs Con, I haven't made a character in years that has had lower than a 12 and that's only due to racial penalties because sooner or later something will hit you.
If you want to hit and do damage in melee, strength can't be dumped, at least a 13, 14 or higher is preferred.
Dex is necessary because you need some early AC and reflex is a poor save for you and if you want to cast something on the party it helps if you can go before them so that you can actually hit the whole party.
If you want to be useful out of combat you can't dump Int either or you get no skills.
You're asking more out of the cleric class than it is intended to do, so of course you need 5 good stats, it's like asking a paladin to be amazing at all combat, spell casting, and have lots of skill points. A cleric is no more combat-oriented than a bard is, stop trying to make an inquisitor out of your cleric.
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One of my favorite new cleric builds is based on stacking the Ferocity and Demon subdomains on a two-handed weapon with Channel Smite. Decent Strength, Decent Charisma, and enough spells to get the job done, mean I'm hitting like a freaking truck by mid levels without any spell augmentation. You can build a cleric to be quite combat oriented, but you have to sacrifice to do it, just like with most other classes (i.e., druid, bard, etc.).
Oh, and to further muddy the waters, a cleric with the Demon subdomain can totally break enhancement bonuses by getting a +1 weapon covered in enchantments and using the Fury of the Abyss ability, which grants the cleric an enhancement bonus to attack/damage rolls, not the weapon :P.
I guess my thing is that the Paladin and the Inquisitor (who I forgot about) annoy the hell out of me because they break the standard convention:
Int for Arcane Memorization casters
Wis for Divine casters
Cha for Spontaneous casters
Exceptions define trends as much as the standard does.
Greater Magic Weapon stacking on a magic weapon with a +1 hit/damage but with +5 special abilities.....
The cheezers never stop...
Deyvantius: That is a really common combo. The main problem with it is that it will not bypass anything but DR/magic. GMW does not bypass material or alignment DRs like a permanent magic enhancement will.
- Gauss
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Those aren't stats for a cleric, those are stats for buff me up, and go sit in the corner while the rest of us handle this, afterwards I'll let you heal me up.Everyone needs Con, I haven't made a character in years that has had lower than a 12 and that's only due to racial penalties because sooner or later something will hit you.
If you want to hit and do damage in melee, strength can't be dumped, at least a 13, 14 or higher is preferred.
Dex is necessary because you need some early AC and reflex is a poor save for you and if you want to cast something on the party it helps if you can go before them so that you can actually hit the whole party.
If you want to be useful out of combat you can't dump Int either or you get no skills.
You're asking more out of the cleric class than it is intended to do, so of course you need 5 good stats, it's like asking a paladin to be amazing at all combat, spell casting, and have lots of skill points. A cleric is no more combat-oriented than a bard is, stop trying to make an inquisitor out of your cleric.
Clerics are crusaders of their faith, spokesmen of the divine, and adventurers. Of the major spellcasters, they have the weakest spell list, (Druids, Wizards, and Sorcerer hands down, Witch debatible). In order for the Cleric to do it's job, (staying in and contributing to combat, even as a support, it needs decent Str, Dex, and Con, with Dex (a universally important stat), being the dump of the three), Wis (for spellcasting, but little else), and Cha, (for some social skills, Channeling, and a few other things sometimes, as Clerics should be even better leaders and generals than Paladins. That's kind of what a priest does, you know, has followers that they lead and guide. I do agree, the Cleric is the single most MAD class in the game (even above Monk, barely), just to fullfill their basic function and to NOT be basically an NPC (buff me, then once I do this combat I'll let you heal me up, too, now go back to your corner. . .). Even if all you want is a healer NPC buffer, they do need to actually survive to do that, so Con, Dex, Wis, and Cha.
I think the major issue is that Paizo really over compensated with the Paladin since 3E, and introduced the Inquisitor that basically smashes the few Cleric's toes left that the Paladin didn't, (and the Oracle healed them back to be resmashed. . .). Add to that things like in order to give the Sorcerer and Paladin both the Cloak of Resist and a Cha boosting item, they robbed that from the Cleric (NO Headband of Wis AND/OR Cha with Phylactery 1 or Phylactery 2), instead, robbed a decent amount of their abilities, and nerfed a lot of magic.
Honestly, the Paladin is fine imo. Less damage than a fighter UNLESS it gets off its limited use Smite Evil and then it is close. Yes, the saves are quite a bit. Yes, the special powers add to it. But, honestly. I think it is more or less balanced.
BTW, why couldnt a cleric get a headband of Wisdom, Charisma, Channel Energy, AND Faithfulness? The rules allow you to do so (for +50% cost for each extra item).
- Gauss
Beckett: Can you provide a link to that rule in PFS?
Why is it cheesy? They designed it like that. The conversion guide briefly talks about the rationale for merging things. As for DMs not creating items like that, then they are applying a houserule and that is not the fault of the PFRPG. It is NOT in the 'guideline' section on custom magic item creation. It is beyond that in the item creation rules themselves that adding additional abilities is +50% cost.
Oh, as for expensive? Yes it can be early on. Not that expensive later on.
- Gauss
SaddestPanda: Thanks, I am just now getting into PFS. I knew the rule against crafting but was not applying that to how items are purchased. Does the rule against crafting also state you cannot purchase items with extra abilities? I thought I read somewhere in the PFS stuff that yes, you can add abilities. Perhaps it covered upgrades instead.
- Gauss
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SaddestPanda: Thanks, I am just now getting into PFS. I knew the rule against crafting but was not applying that to how items are purchased. Does the rule against crafting also state you cannot purchase items with extra abilities? I thought I read somewhere in the PFS stuff that yes, you can add abilities. Perhaps it covered upgrades instead.
- Gauss
You can not buy or create any custome material in PFS.
One of my favorite new cleric builds is based on stacking the Ferocity and Demon subdomains on a two-handed weapon with Channel Smite. Decent Strength, Decent Charisma, and enough spells to get the job done, mean I'm hitting like a freaking truck by mid levels without any spell augmentation. You can build a cleric to be quite combat oriented, but you have to sacrifice to do it, just like with most other classes (i.e., druid, bard, etc.).
Oh, and to further muddy the waters, a cleric with the Demon subdomain can totally break enhancement bonuses by getting a +1 weapon covered in enchantments and using the Fury of the Abyss ability, which grants the cleric an enhancement bonus to attack/damage rolls, not the weapon :P.
Davor, enhancement bonuses to hit and damage do not stack.
If you want an example, it's as simple as a bow and arrow, or a monk with an Amulet of Mighty Fists ('enchanting the monk') and a quarterstaff +5.
The bonuses don't stack.
Your Fury of the Abyss ability is basically a version of Greater Magic Fang allowing his natural weapons to have a bonus. It doesn't accumulate with a magic weapon.
Because, you know, if they DO stack...then every character in the world is going to start grabbing Amulets of Mighty Fists to dual-stack these things.
==Aelryinth
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Fury of the Abyss grants an Enhancement bonus = 1/2 Cleric Level, which would not be restricted to the +5 Enhancement bonus for magical weapons, and would stack with other magic properties, but would not stack with an actual Enhancement bonus to a weapon.
It won't stack beyond +10 total, because the rules specifically state that enhancement bonuses max at +10, including spells and other abilities. The only exception to this seems to be a bow and magic arrows, and this is debateable, as well.
This is directly equal to a +10 Amulet of Magic Fang and a +10 Quarterstaff. The two won't stack. Using the Fury with a +10 Weapon basically means you'll have to decide what you really want to have happen.
==Aelryinth
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Davor, enhancement bonuses to hit and damage do not stack.If you want an example, it's as simple as a bow and arrow, or a monk with an Amulet of Mighty Fists ('enchanting the monk') and a quarterstaff +5.
The bonuses don't stack.
Your Fury of the Abyss ability is basically a version of Greater Magic Fang allowing his natural weapons to have a bonus. It doesn't accumulate with a magic weapon.
Because, you know, if they DO stack...then every character in the world is going to start grabbing Amulets of Mighty Fists to dual-stack these things.
==Aelryinth
I never said they stacked.
However, Fury of the Abyss, at 20th level, grants the cleric a +10 Enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls. A +1 weapon with a bunch of enchantments (adding up to +10 total) means that the cleric can, essentially, get a really great attack, because the weapon enhancement rules aren't being broken.
To put it another way: An amulet of mighty fists grants its benefits to unarmed strikes and natural weapons of the wielder. It adds the enhancement bonus to their weapons.
The Fury of the Abyss ability grants the cleric an enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls, but this is not limited to a specific weapon, it's simply a general enhancement. A weapon cannot be enhanced above a +10, but there's nothing stopping a cleric from whipping out his +1 flaming, shock, frost, corrosive, holy, keen, spell-storing, ghost touch Falchion and using his Fury of the Abyss ability to gain an extra enhancement bonus to his attacks and damage rolls, because the enhancement bonus of the weapon is not being exceeded, though at level 20 the total enhancement would end up being +10 (you effectively wouldn't gain the +1 from the weapon because enhancement bonuses don't stack).
It's like having a +19 weapon, but not really, and only for a few rounds per day.
edit: @Aelryinth: It's nothing like a +10 Amulet and a +10 quarterstaff. Those weapons have enhancement bonuses that apply to those specific weapons. The Cleric ability is a general enhancement bonus (like Divine Favor, or any spell that adds a +X to attack and damage rolls). It's a specific type of bonus, but is not applied to a weapon, but rather to attack and damage rolls.
so, you're trying to say this is a bow & Arrow situation, and not a magic fang and staff situation.
My rejoinder is: are the enhancement bonuses supposed to apply to a weapon being wielded? If so, you have a bow situation. That means the total magic on the arrow (wielded weapon) can't exceed +10.
If you're saying no, they are seperate and they stack, that means you have a full +10 with a +10 situation, for +20 total (+29 if using a bow + arrow and allowing stacking with the same logic). Which I'm sure you'll agree is way hugely too strong.
So, either you pick the balanced interpretation, or a broken interpretation. Do you really want a cleric shooting at you with a +15 enhanced weapon, with +14 of kickers attached? Because that's what you're telling people to do, here.
Basically, the rules limit what a weapon can have. If you have +10 of bonuses, and a weapon in your hand, they are going to totally override the weapon, OR you're going to give up some of the bonus.
Really, just the fact you can use this ability for a +10 Th/Dmg and bork the weapon enhancement limits is huge enough as it is. Allowing it to stack?
==Aelryinth
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They will not stack because they are both Enhancement bonuses to Attacks and Damage, (and Fury also adds to all CMB's too). Fury is specifically to the character's Attacks and Damage, not any weapon, but that doesn't mean it stacks.
However, a +1 Shocking weapon used by a 10th level character using Fury would act as a +5 Shocking weapon, for 1 round.
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#2: Clerics aren't primarily Melee/Ranged. Their primary ability is healing. They use STR/DEX/CON as their Secondary ability draw, and so they have to differentiate between WIS/CHA so that you get to choose between being awesome at their primary healing/ability range, or their primary casting stat.
False. The cleric is a medium BAB divine spellcaster with great defensive and buffing abilities, which means that, combined with appropriate domain choices, he can do pretty much whatever I want, be it damage, support, or control.
@Devil's Advocate: I'm not claiming that Enhancement bonuses stack. I already knew they didn't. What I'm saying is that a +10 Enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls is not a weapon-based enhancement, and therefore is not subject to traditional maximum enhancement rules. Aelryinth makes a good case for precedent in the Bow/Arrow ruling, but I'm afraid it doesn't quite work in this scenario. Plus, Fury of the Abyss specifically applies only to melee attacks and damage rolls, which means there will be no bow/arrow/FotA craziness going on.
I'm just curious if anyone knows why. Paladins are divine casters and Wisdom is the divine caster stat. From what I can tell, Paladins are the only spellcaster who don't use the correct casting stat for their style of spellcasting (Int-Arcane, Wis-Divine, Cha-Spontaneous)
Because when the epic purple Charisma hat drops off the final boss then the Bard will have someone to roll against for the loots.
/roll
:D
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We know who won't ever get healed if his party is watching, and Clerics don't need High Str to be effective. They could just do Wisdom, Charisma and Constitution (that's only because I like HP, but still not overly needed) to be effective. Cleric don't need to jump into melee to do there damage. I made a cleric built around Spiritual Weapon and in one fight I had 32 Spiritual weapons flying and 12 of them on one person.^A primary healing cleric is a waste of space in the party.
Nothing infuriates me more than a cleric that does nothing but heal.
Let me put it this way.
The last cleric I played at 12th level:
Did more damage than the fighter
Had a +3 Armor and +3 Shield
Had a +3 Holy Mace
Had More AC than the fighter
Had More HP than the fighter
Had a move speed of 50
Had freedom of movement for about 10 rounds a day
Could teleport 110 feet per day
Ignored difficult terrain
Could fly, dimension door, and teleport
Could Summon Monsters
Could Create walls of Stone
At times had a Lillend Azata Planar Ally
Could cast Divine Power
And a whole host of other awesome stuff.
As it turns out, I was often too busy being AWESOME to heal during combat.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Matthew's theory of casting stats.
Wis, 'conduit for the power' your psyche is tough enough to be able to channel the power from an outside source.
Cha, raw potential power. Essentially you have the strength of persona to 'grab reality by the short and curlies and make it beg.'
Now how would that work for a Paladin? Let's try saying he's a 'Captain America caster.'
It's been said that Captain America's 'superpower' is he brings out the best in his allies. So a Paladin's cure light wounds makes your body fight past the pain, his lesser restoration makes you put things behind you, zone of truth stirs up a spark of honesty in the area, etc. Even creation spells could be seen as 'inspiring casting'. Essentially he casts create water and reality responds to the polite request and it arrives as a sudden hihgly localized rain, etc etc.
All IMHO in how to Justify charisma casting. Mechanically Cheapy's already answered that.
Let's just all admit that one is the archetype of the other and be done with it. :)
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Back to the OP:
A cleric has a Medium BAB, which means their primary action is straight up proof they weren't made to be a front-liner. The fact that they don't suffer through any kind of Spell failure allows them to equip Medium Armor and carry a heavy shield so they have much higher AC, but they aren't a tank, specifically because their HP is a d8, and not a d10, and they don't get any niceties for damage dealing. I...
I think the Magus, Inquisitor, Bard, and Summoner may disagree with you. It is perfectly feasible for a medium BAB class, no matter the class, to be a decent frontline combatant. The primary requirement for such a feat is decent weapon choice, and the ability to increase your attack and damage abilities beyond those inherent to your class (Ex. Magus Int. to Accuracy, spellstrike, Bard Inspire Courage/Great Hope, Inquisitor Judgment/Bane, etc.).
The Cleric has access to several personal buffing spells (Righteous Might, Divine Favor), as well as several Domain abilities which add to attack and/or damage rolls. Combine with good armor proficiencies and potentially good weapon proficiencies (provided good Deity choice), and you have a pretty solid damage-dealing, front-line character. A Cleric with the Ferocity domain, Divine Favor cast, Power Attack as a feat choice, and a good combat deity weapon like a Greatsword, Greataxe, or Falchion, can easily outdo the fighter at low levels. At higher levels, his buffing ability brings him close to the Fighter in terms of damage output (given a round or two), but he has the versatility have prepared spells to defend the party or control the enemy. Dealing melee damage isn't difficult. It's about using the tools you have to the best of your ability, and clerics have those tools.
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Can you post the stats of this cleric? I'm very interested to see how a 12th Level Cleric could clear 145 Melee Damage a round.We know who won't ever get healed if his party is watching, and Clerics don't need High Str to be effective. They could just do Wisdom, Charisma and Constitution (that's only because I like HP, but still not overly needed) to be effective. Cleric don't need to jump into melee to do there damage. I made a cleric built around Spiritual Weapon and in one fight I had 32 Spiritual weapons flying and 12 of them on one person.^A primary healing cleric is a waste of space in the party.
Nothing infuriates me more than a cleric that does nothing but heal.
Let me put it this way.
The last cleric I played at 12th level:
Did more damage than the fighter
Had a +3 Armor and +3 Shield
Had a +3 Holy Mace
Had More AC than the fighter
Had More HP than the fighter
Had a move speed of 50
Had freedom of movement for about 10 rounds a day
Could teleport 110 feet per day
Ignored difficult terrain
Could fly, dimension door, and teleport
Could Summon Monsters
Could Create walls of Stone
At times had a Lillend Azata Planar Ally
Could cast Divine PowerAnd a whole host of other awesome stuff.
As it turns out, I was often too busy being AWESOME to heal during combat.
Stats were 4d6, drop the lowest.
Strength: 14
Dexterity: 12
Constitution: 14
Int: 7
Wisdom:16
Charisma: 10
Was an Aasimar (+2 Wis and Cha). Had a +6 Str Belt and +6 Wisdom Headband, Put 3 ability points into Strength, Paid wizard to bind Efreeti to buff my stats (I made a ton of cash crafting stuff for party members). Then we killed it. Also paid wizard to permanently enlarge me.
Final stats:
Strength: 28
Dexterity: 13
Constitution: 17
Int: 10
Wisdom: 27
Charisma: 15
Final attack Bonus: +25/+20 (+9 BAB, +9 Str, +4 Divine Power, + 3 Magic Weapon, +1 Haste, +1 Weapon Focus, +2 Bardic Performance (Azata) -3 Power Attack, -1 Size)
Final Damage: 2d6 + 20(+9 Str, +3 Weapon, +6 Power Attack, +2 Bardic Performance) + 2d6 Holy
Dire Tiger: 4 claws +20 (2d4+10 plus grab), bite +20 (2d6+10/19–20 plus grab)
I just rolled damage on those stats, and I will admit, I only was able to get 140 damage, not 145.
But I think when you take into account everything else that I can do (Including, I guess, healing) then, I think it edges it out.
Those aren't stats for a cleric, those are stats for buff me up, and go sit in the corner while the rest of us handle this, afterwards I'll let you heal me up.What job is that? They're primary spellcasters, they can sit in the back chucking monsters at their opponents instead of getting up in their grill. That's their combat. They don't even need HP or AC unless you run against a ranged combatant, who are relatively rare.
If they want to be awesome at their job, they need 2 stats. Wisdom for spells and charisma for channeling.
Spoken like a true pawn. The God Wizard will give you a pat on the head and the Caster Cleric will give you a healing cookie after you go off and fetch the BBEG for them.
Good BSF! ;)
You can not buy or create any custome material in PFS.SaddestPanda: Thanks, I am just now getting into PFS. I knew the rule against crafting but was not applying that to how items are purchased. Does the rule against crafting also state you cannot purchase items with extra abilities? I thought I read somewhere in the PFS stuff that yes, you can add abilities. Perhaps it covered upgrades instead.
- Gauss
Great, can you point me to the rule? Because making a headband of wisdom and faithfulness is not custom per se. It is right there in the rules on adding new abilities. Simply combining two items is not necessarily defined as custom. Hence why I'd like a look at the rule.
- Gauss