I'm going to be starting a new campaign soon (as a player rather than a GM). I'm really eager to play a Magus, but I'm really disappointed at how the Dex-based Dervish Dance magus seems to be the uncontested optimum build for one. It's a waste of those (overly late) armor proficiencies and made me sad when I realized the build I was working on was a dime-a-dozen.
Fortunately, the GM for the campaign is pretty loose on customization. So I've more-or-less got the go ahead to make my own armor-based magus archetype. Of course, it's all subject to approval, but I wanted to get some community ideas on balance and what is fair.
Here is what I have so far:
Weapon and Armor Proficiency
A mage knight is proficient with all simple and martial weapons. A mage knight is also proficient with all armor (light, medium, and heavy). He can cast magus spells while wearing armor without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance. Like any other arcane spellcaster, a mage knight using a shield incurs a chance of arcane spell failure if the spell in question has a somatic component. A multiclass mage knight still incurs the normal arcane spell failure chance for arcane spells received from other classes.
Spellstrike
At 2nd level, a mage knight gains the spellstrike ability as normal. However, when a mage knight delivers a spell through his weapon, the spell only threatens a critical on a natural 20 (as normal), rather than using the weapon's threat range. This means that the weapon delivering the spell may score a critical hit, while the spell itself does not.
This modifies the spellstrike ability.
Armor Training
At 7th level, a mage knight gains armor training, as the fighter ability. At 14th level, he gains armor training 2.
This ability replaces knowledge pool and greater spell combat.
Fighter Training
Starting at 10th level, a mage knight counts his magus level –3 as his fighter level for the purpose of qualifying for feats (if he has levels in fighter, these levels stack).
This ability changes the fighter training class feature
True Knight
At 20th level, a mage knight gains DR 5/magic while wearing medium or heavy armor. As a free action, he can spend points from his arcane pool to improve this damage reduction. For 1 point, the DR can be changed to one of the alignments (chaos, evil, good, or law). This must correspond with his alignment. For 2 points he can change the DR to adamantine. For 1 point he can increase the DR to 10/magic. A mage knight may both increase the DR and change its type by paying the cost for both. These modifications last for one minute.
This ability replaces true magus
The basic gist of Mage Knight is that they get all the armor proficiencies right off the bat, instead of waiting. In addition, they get Armor Training 1&2 (at levels 7 and 14) in exchange for Knowledge Pool and Greater Spell Combat. Their Fighter training is also a bit better (Level -3 rather than 1/2 Level). The Level 20 change is just to have something a bit different flavor-wise.
The main drawback of the Mage Knight is that Spellstrike no longer allows spells to threaten critical hits using the weapon's range (so no more +10d6 damage on a 15-20). There are two reasons for this: First its to give a fairly hefty drawback to make up for the bonuses the class gains. Second is more flavor (no more ZOMG SKIMITARZ PLZ!!!!!!11!!1). Have you EVER seen a Magus without a scimitar?
Anyway, I could really use some help balancing this archetype. And I'm still not sure it's good enough, actually. It has some nice gains for only 1 drawback, but all the same, the Dex-based Magus will still have comparable AC (especially with Celestial Armor), Much better Reflex saves (Will and Fort will be even), better movement speed (until level 14 at least), and still have better ability scores (they can completely ignore Str, while a Mage Knight can still use some Dex for AC and Saves). Also, light armor is much cheaper than full-plate (especially is you want it Mithral). The only real drawback for Dex-based is the 2 feats you need to spend on Weapon Finesse and Dervish Dance.
Thoughts? Is it balanced as-is? Should I maybe give it something extra? If so, what?
Thanks a lot guys.
Dime-a-dozen is a serious understatement.
I would say heavy armor at first level is a bit much for them. I'm not sure what to replace it with, as I'm also not sure it's a fair trade to get a weaker spellstrike for medium armor.
Even with heavy armor, a Mage Knight would only have slightly better AC than a Dex-based magus for a small time, especially considering they can't afford full-plate at level 1.
I understand what you mean, though. I had, at one point, set it up so they started with light and medium armor and gained heavy at level 7 (when they'd normally gain medium). That might be doable (though I feel it still kind of pushes the magus towards higher Dex--even if you want to be armored). But if I went back to that, I would probably want to give something small to the Mage Knight to make up for it. Weakening Spellstrike IS a fairly hefty penalty.
Maybe take away the 5th level Bonus Feat and give something that's actually pretty nice in return? Not sure what though.
This was my stab at a somewhat similar concept. The balancing factor of aura of protection really depends on the elimination of spellstrike. But you might be inspired!
Interesting. I like the "1 point left in his Arcane Pool thing." I'd like to avoid an aura, though. They're too easy to forget in battle (for allies at least). Maybe something like this:
Arcane Armor
At 5th level, a mage knight learns to empower his armor with his magic, granting himself extra protection from harm of all kinds. A mage knigh who is wearing medium or heavy armor and has at least one point remaining in his arcane pool gains a +1 bonus to AC and saves. At 9th level, and every 4 levels after that, the bonus increases by +1, up to a maximum of +4 at level 17.
This ability replaces the bonus feat gained at 5th level.
Too much? Not enough? Just right?
Edit: That's in addition to moving heavy armor prof. back to level 7.
I don't think you really need an archetype to be a Magus tank.
If you grab studded leather at first level and doesn't waste spell slots on damage spells, but fill them with shield, you should be set up to do a lot of tanking.
This way (wih 14 dex) you will have a stable AC of 15 (studded leather + dex), which is acceptable for the needs of the day and should you run into a better class of monster (an you probably will), you can always use spell combat to attack AND cast your shield spell, for a nice round 19 AC.
For damage I recommend arcane strike and high strength, with a weapon that can be used two-handed. Being a half-elf with a katana (alternate racial trait for proficiency) will give you a great crit range and you can always throw the racial +2 into strength.
So damage would (with an assumed strength 18 and a katana) end up at d8+6 (str 4 + arcane strike 1 + arcane pool 1), which is +8 when used two-handed.
So even considering damage you will be a great tank with just the normal Magus.
Having a Magus run around in a breastplate at level 4 will be nasty. It's a base AC of 6, probably magical +1, so 7, combined with shield, 14 dex and cats grace it's a solid 25 at level 4, 26 if you're lucky enough to get that ring of protection +1. and if you grab the Blade Bound archetype you will be able to throw all your money after ac gear, for an even greater boost.
In comparison, the poor fighter with 14 dex, a +1 breastplate, a +1 heavy shield and the ring og protection +1 will have AC 23, and he can't use a weapon two-handed due to the shield so the Magus can easily outdamage him as well.
What I'm trying to say is that awesome as the heavily armored Magus is, it's a fine line to balance if you're not going to accidentially make the nice old fighter obsolete.
Sorry for the ramble.
And sorry for and errors in math, this all came of the top of my head, so there's probably even more powerful ways to do it if you really want to :)
That's a fair point about the fighter. But to be fair, sticking all your spells in AC boosters is a little harsh for a class who's main abilities involve casting touch spells through their weapons as part of a full-round action.
My main concern is, taking your example, a dex-based magus would have 18 Dex and a scimitar. They get Leather Armor (2 AC), probably +1, so +3 armor.So, Armor(+3), shield (+4), 18 dex (+4), cat's grace (+2), so that's a solid 23. Also, a magus in a breastplate would only have 24 AC (max dex on the breastplate).
Only a 1 point AC difference for wearing heavier armor, having a lower movement speed, having a higher armor check, having lower reflex saves, and having to invest in more ability scores (dex-based needs no str, while armor still needs some dex).
Also, the figheter in your example should probably have full-plate, so that puts him up to a 25 AC (+3 armor -1 dex). Sure the magus out damages, but the fighter kills in feats (and the ability to actually hit--magus is -2 using spell combat, fighter gets weapon training).
After thinking about it, yeah, that Arcane Armor probably IS too powerful.
First let me restate: the point of the whole archetype is to offer a non-Dex-based, armored magus who does not (necessarily) use a scimitar. The point it to create some diversity among the magus class without forcing a player to use a highly unoptimized character.
It's not to make a magus-tank. The Dex-based Dervish Dancing magus can already do that anyway.
As such, I have had TWO ideas, and I would really appreciate some feedback on them. Both go with the idea that (unlike my original post) the mage knight starts with Light and Medium Armor proficiencies, and gains Heavy Armor at level 7.
Armor Ward
At 5th level, a mage knight's armor seethes with arcane magics, which protect him from harm. As long as he is wearing medium or heavy armor and has at least one point remaining in his arcane pool, the mage knight gets a +1 bonus to all saving throws. At 8th level, and every 3 levels after, the bonus increases by +1, to a maximum of +6 at 20th level.
This ability replaces the bonus feat gained at level 5
(Sort of a weaker Divine Grace)
or
Spell Battle
At 5th level, a mage knight becomes more proficient at using a melee weapon while casting spells. So long as he uses a 1-handed weapon, he may grip it in both hands and use it 2-handed. He can, in essence use his weapon for the somatic component of spells (he must still be able to move it). He can use his weapon 2-handed while casting spells, using spellstrike, and using spell combat.
This ability replaces the bonus feat gained at level 5
(bit of extra power on weapon strikes)
Do either of these look like good options?
EDIT: For my previous post, I realized the example fighter would actually have 26 AC because of armor training. Just pointing that out.
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The main drawback of the Mage Knight is that Spellstrike no longer allows spells to threaten critical hits using the weapon's range (so no more +10d6 damage on a 15-20). There are two reasons for this: First its to give a fairly hefty drawback to make up for the bonuses the class gains. Second is more flavor (no more ZOMG SKIMITARZ PLZ!!!!!!11!!1). Have you EVER seen a Magus without a scimitar?
Personally, I think that spells threatening critical hits on the weapon's crit range is the only real reason to play Magus. Take that away and I'd almost rather play Eldritch Knight (Which, if I had to say anything about Magus, it's that I hate that it has made Eldritch Knight obsolete.)
Wait, it's not the ability to completely sunder the action economy?
Yeah, as nice as critical hitting spells on a 15-20 is, the magus has a lot of other things going for it. You can still cast a spell in addition to your full round attack, and channel it through your weapon. Not to mention the arcane pool abilities.
Though I do feel that taking away the crit ability does justify beefing up other aspects of mage knight.
As far as the 2 suggestions I made, personally, I'm leaning towards Armor Ward. I do love having good saves. Who doesn't?
(Which, if I had to say anything about Magus, it's that I hate that it has made Eldritch Knight obsolete.)
Even stole the mascot character. Of course, prestige classes in general have been largely phased out.