4-03: Golemworks Incident

[Muser]

Ok, now that's clever.

[The Great Rinaldo!]

I always read it that he's scrying his copy while it interacts with the party.

[grandpoobah]

Tony Lindman wrote:

I always read it that he's scrying his copy while it interacts with the party.

Something often forgotten (or possibly not mentioned) - Scry spells provide a magical sensor that is easily detected:

scrying:

Scrying: A scrying spell creates an invisible magical sensor that sends you information. Unless noted otherwise, the sensor has the same powers of sensory acuity that you possess. This level of acuity includes any spells or effects that target you, but not spells or effects that emanate from you. The sensor, however, is treated as a separate, independent sensory organ of yours, and thus functions normally even if you have been blinded or deafened, or otherwise suffered sensory impairment.

A creature can notice the sensor by making a Perception check with a DC 20 + the spell level. The sensor can be dispelled as if it were an active spell.

That's a DC Perception 25 check for a normal Scry spell, something I would expect at least one PC at tier 5-9 to be able to pull off easily (especially since they'll get at least 2 chances). That should at least tip them off that high level spellcasting shenanigans is in the future.

I have to run this on Monday, and I am also worried about how bad a black tentacles is going to hit the group. Especially a possible 4 player table at tier 5-6.

[Muser]

Oh yeah, my first group was almost completely taken out. No deaths, but they never even got to the formaldehyde cannons. They gave Mrs Black 6 rounds to buff, black tentacles hit them hard and only the group's gunslinger got out while Black gleefully threw out magic missiles and lightning bolts. It was over in 6 painful rounds.

I had Black leave almost immediately after the end of the fight. Wasn't sure what a deranged wizard would do with a team of KO'd Pathfinders so I passed on killing the group. The loss was painful enough already.

The players had fun despite their failure, so success I guess?

Had one more question:

What happens to unconscious creatures inside the tentacles? I ruled that they'd be treated as objects after falling down, but I'm not so sure anymore. Won't retcon the session anymore, just curious if that is how it works.

[grandpoobah]

Black Tentacles is indiscriminate. It would continue to grapple unconscious PCs until they are dead - at which point I don't think the damage is relevant (It's not clear if the spell can maintain the grab on an object).

The tentacles supposedly only target creatures (it makes no mention of objects), so once a PC is dead (not merely unconscious) their corpse is an object and it could "slide" out of the tentacles, presumably in some smooshy format.

The wizard must consciously dismiss the spell (as a standard action) for it to end prior to the duration, and I'm not sure under what conditions he might do that. An inventive PC might convince him that the party is his long-dead sisters, which would freak him out and might get him to dismiss it before they die. I would totally reward that solution!

He is interested in body parts. So once the PCs are subdued (unconscious and/or dead), he might dismiss it, and start hooking PCs up to his mad science machine; at which point you could argue PCs now need a resurrection instead of a raise dead (as he starts removing organs and being generally crazy/creepy/weird).

A nice GM might rule that some Golemworks investigators come knocking at some point, and "stop" Chrysalis Black from doing anything irrecoverable to the PCs bodies, thus leaving open the option for Raise Dead (or at least Resurrection). A harsher GM might rule a TPK is unrecoverable from a psycho like Chrysalis.

[Muser]

Well, the pc who got away immediately returned to Heidmarch Manor to get help. I had Black scry on him and decide that there'd be no time for harvesting. Furthermore, the tanks hooked to the machine were full of Pathfinders already, so theres was an an ample supply of limbs and such. He packed his packs, called for a coach and left.

I'm not bloodthirsty enough to call for resurrection when the scenario doesn't.

Anyhow, next up: 3 PCs and Kyra on high tier. Oh boy...

[Secane]

Does the Trusty Buddy crowbar on the chronicle sheet by passes DR of any type?

[Muser]

No. It's made of adamantine, not godmatter.

inb4 "but muh RAW"

Sorry, it's just very irritating that, in a place as masturbatorily fixated on close reading as the Paizo boards, people suddenly foregoed all inference. Sure it says "bypasses DR" on the chronicle but sheesh.

[Disk Elemental]

Muser wrote:

I believe No. It's made of adamantine, not godmatter.

FTFY.

There's been no official ruling on the subject, and the discussion thread on the topic didn't come to a consensus.

Which means, at least for now, it's GM discretion.

[Secane]

Muser wrote:

No. It's made of adamantine, not godmatter.

inb4 "but muh RAW"

Sorry, it's just very irritating that, in a place as masturbatorily fixated on close reading as the Paizo boards, people suddenly foregoed all inference. Sure it says "bypasses DR" on the chronicle but sheesh.

Hence I was hoping for an official reply. Asked the author, but he said that the item was added by paizo, not him.

Its a 3000gp improvised weapon. So is the bypass DR (all) a planned part of this item?
Otherwise it is a very expensive improvised weapon.

[Muser]

2nd GM run, tier 5-6, 3 characters + Kyra:

They pretty much waltzed through the scenario until Mr. Black and his patented Black Appendage Spaghetti Suprise, well, took them by surprise. Once Kyra was running low on channels, nobody had moved past the huge red herring and they finally got out of the tentacles, the group backtracked to the doll room to "wait out his buffs". After an hour had passed, they returned to find the laboratory fairly empty except for a lot of bodies.

No deaths, 1 exp, 0 pp, about half the loot. Oh well, win some, lose some.

[GinoA]

I'm running this one in a couple days so I've been reading up on the particulars. I'm also planning to apply the chronicle to my improvised-weapon based build.

Two notes. The text in the actual scenario describes the Trusty Buddy slightly differently.

Golemworks Incident wrote:

This tool functions as a crowbar in every way, but bypasses damage reduction when used as an improvised weapon and grants a +4 circumstance bonus on Strength checks to open doors or chests instead of the normal +2 bonus. The words “Trusty Buddy” are engraved into the crowbar’s handle.

This seems more clear that it is intended to not function as a 'typical' adamantine crowbar.

On the other side, I'm pretty sure the only DR in the scenario is 5/adamantine.

So, that's my two cents on both sides of the debate.

[Secane]

Muser wrote:

2nd GM run, tier 5-6, 3 characters + Kyra:

They pretty much waltzed through the scenario until Mr. Black and his patented Black Appendage Spaghetti Suprise, well, took them by surprise. Once Kyra was running low on channels, nobody had moved past the huge red herring and they finally got out of the tentacles, the group backtracked to the doll room to "wait out his buffs". After an hour had passed, they returned to find the laboratory fairly empty except for a lot of bodies.

No deaths, 1 exp, 0 pp, about half the loot. Oh well, win some, lose some.

Both times when I played and ran Golemworks, the party got through with flying pass the tentacles.

Half the party did got trapped when I ran it, but between a flying eidolon and monk, he did not stand any chance... :(
Not to mention the summoner throw out a black tentacles of his own on the poor boss.

GinoA wrote:

I'm running this one in a couple days so I've been reading up on the particulars. I'm also planning to apply the chronicle to my improvised-weapon based build.

Two notes. The text in the actual scenario describes the Trusty Buddy slightly differently.

Golemworks Incident wrote:

This tool functions as a crowbar in every way, but bypasses damage reduction when used as an improvised weapon and grants a +4 circumstance bonus on Strength checks to open doors or chests instead of the normal +2 bonus. The words “Trusty Buddy” are engraved into the crowbar’s handle.

This seems more clear that it is intended to not function as a 'typical' adamantine crowbar.

On the other side, I'm pretty sure the only DR in the scenario is 5/adamantine.

So, that's my two cents on both sides of the debate.

It is confusing. By RAW, it does seem to by pass DR (with no mention of any specific type/s), but due to its adamantine material, it is assumed that the DR it can bypass us only adanantine.

I hope that someone can clarify this.

On another hand, I wonder how people would react if it was an iron crowbar with similar properties? Would people question the written text of bypass DR as well, if it were made of iron or steel?

[CelticDragon38]

I've been wondering something about the

first encounter:

fire hazard in the greenhouse. Everyone will [potentially] be taking damage from fire and smoke, but no mention is made of damage from high heat. Shouldn't the PCs have to make saves vs. heat at some point?

And at what level? The greenhouse would already be 80-85 degrees before the fires even start. If the conditions would be very hot (90-110, which seems likely), that would mean everyone makes a Fort save or takes a small amount of nonlethal damage. If the conditions are severe heat (110-140), the effect would be the same since the battle won't last longer than 10 minutes. But if the conditions are extreme heat (140+), they would automatically take a small amount of damage once, plus the same effect from lower levels.

The CRB specifically mentions fire under extreme heat, so I'm thinking of considering squares on fire and squares adjacent to them to be extreme heat and everywhere else very hot to severe heat. And once a certain number of squares have caught on fire or fires have been raging a certain number of rounds (whichever happens first, number of rounds/squares TBD), considering everywhere in the greenhouse to be very hot to severe heat.

Thoughts?

[Quentin Coldwater]

Thread necro!

I'll be running this next week, and one of my players is fond of slapping Bane on other people's weapons (damn you, Occultist!). How does that interact with the Simulacrum spell? It's created from ice or snow, so maybe it'd count as a construct, but it's also "partially real." Would it be "real" enough to ping for Humanbane? I think it'll at least be interesting during the fight: "your Bane doesn't seem to do anything," tells the players something weird is going on.

I can see both sides of the argument. On the one hand, it's a construct, but on the other hand, it's partially real. How much can an actual simulacrum simulate. Does it breathe, and by extension, die of suffocation? Does it need to eat, and thus, does it poop? I'm inclined to run it the first way, but I'm open to persuasion.