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I am about to launch a high level scenario. Our group's SOP when it comes to challenging encounters recently has been to summon a bunch of stuff, toss it in there and then go in to mop up the rest. Well, I am trying to get this practice under control. I will resort to arbitrary rulings if I have to, but would like to have some rule support first.
Am I correct in my read that a summoner can only have one summoning active at a time? I have other casters in this group that have their own summon spells. Can anyone suggest any limitations, rule based, creative or otherwise?
Thanks.
Ooh boy.
The normal summoner can have one use of his spell-like ability (SLA) out at a time. So he can use Summon Monster V to summon one thing, or summon monster iii to summon 1d4+1 things.
He cannot have his eidolon out at the same time as his SLA unless he summoned the eidolon through the Summon Eidolon spell. (Although I recall some contention on this point.)
He CAN summon more creatures with his spells when his SLA is up.
There is no in-game limit on the number of summons a character can have out at a time.
If he is a Master Summoner archetype, he can have as many uses of his SLA up at a time as he wants.
Ooh boy.
The normal summoner can have one use of his spell-like ability (SLA) out at a time. So he can use Summon Monster V to summon one thing, or summon monster iii to summon 1d4+1 things.
He cannot have his eidolon out at the same time as his SLA unless he summoned the eidolon through the Summon Eidolon spell. (Although I recall some contention on this point.)
He CAN summon more creatures with his spells when his SLA is up.
The spells are also one round per level not one minute per level as it would be for any caster using summon monster.
There is no in-game limit on the number of summons a character can have out at a time.
Using spells this is correct. For the standard summoner he can only use his SLA when his Edilion is not summoned by the ritual (summoned with the spell is in contention). For a Master Summoner he can have one use of his SLA summoned while his Eidolon is present. If his Eidolon is not summoned he can use all of his SLA uses at once if he so chooses.
If he is a Master Summoner archetype, he can have as many uses of his SLA up at a time as he wants.
that.
I am about to launch a high level scenario. Our group's SOP when it comes to challenging encounters recently has been to summon a bunch of stuff, toss it in there and then go in to mop up the rest. Well, I am trying to get this practice under control. I will resort to arbitrary rulings if I have to, but would like to have some rule support first.
Am I correct in my read that a summoner can only have one summoning active at a time? I have other casters in this group that have their own summon spells. Can anyone suggest any limitations, rule based, creative or otherwise?
Thanks.
While summons will always fight your foes instinctly, if you can't communicate, they will fight whichever they choose of your foes not specific ones.
They won't back down or retreat (unless you can communicate).Also how they fight is up to them (unless you can communicate).
While Fiendish/Celestial animals should learn a language: the template doesn't tell you which one.
Oh, forgot to mention that.
Any animals summoned cannot be commanded except by Handle Animal. Unlike in 3.5, the fiendish / celestial templates don't grant a language.
If the animal hasn't been trained in something, that single animal can be Pushed to do something specific with a full-round action of Handle Animal.
Summoned monsters are typically far weaker than the PCs themselves, as well as than the enemies the PCs are likely to face.
I would be thrilled (on behalf of the enemies) if the PCs in my games opened every encounter by throwing in some cannon fodder to reveal their presence, and spending their limited resources in the process.
Any animals summoned cannot be commanded except by Handle Animal. Unlike in 3.5, the fiendish / celestial templates don't grant a language.
If the animal hasn't been trained in something, that single animal can be Pushed to do something specific with a full-round action of Handle Animal.
While you're right that you need handle animal, to say "They've not been trained so you need to push them" seems like a very dickish move on the GMs part for a spell that summons animals to fight. It might be rules-legal in the strictest sense, but most people would say it goes strictly against RAI.
Elementals and outsiders know languages though.And even though it may be up to them what they fight, if not given commands, they're not mindless idiots. A pack of wolves will use tactics. They'll trip and flank and cover each other for example, even without orders.
To just say "ok they all attack another guy. - And woops they're all dead now" again seems like a rather dick GM move.
One thing however: You control the summons, they're NPCs. As said above they will still use tactics and act according to their nature, but the PCs can't just telepathically move them. (unless they have telepathy :)
If the PC succeed at handle animal, you should obviously follow those actions (or let them take over from there on).
And while summons on their own are weaker than the default foe, its the sheer number of them. You overwhelm the enemy with grossly unbalanced action economy.
And while summons on their own are weaker than the default foe, its the sheer number of them. You overwhelm the enemy with grossly unbalanced action economy.
This would be true if it was the summons AND the party at the same time, but in the Original Situation it's only the summons first, and then only the party. So the grossly unbalanced action economy doesn't come into play here.
Can anyone suggest any limitations, rule based, creative or otherwise?
Limitations I don't know. But summoned creatures are the result of a spell with a duration. As such the creature can be dispelled like any other spell.
Also the clerical 'word' line of spells (Dictum, Word of Chaos, Holy Word, Blashpemy) will send anything not of this plane packing back where it came from if it is within the AOE of the spell.
There are also Dismissal and Banishment spells.
While the Dimensional Lock spell does not prevent a summoned creature from disappearing at the end of the summon spell duration, it may possibly prevent a summon spell from BRINGING a creature if the spell is cast inside the warded region. That would be a GM ruling though, as it is inferred by the nature of the spell but not explicitly called out.
Of course the BBEG could always have Master Summoners of his own to counterspell the parties summons.
And if you are using the 3.5 Warlock, have a few of them around to not only dispel the monsters as they are cast but do damage to the ones casting at the same time. And Warlocks don't run out of dispels. EVER.
