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First Pathfinder character, intended for PFS.
CN Qadira Half-Orc Sorc (Arcane Bloodline, Arcane Bond: Viper)
I'm seeing a sort of green-skinned swirl of silk and jewelry. A consummate liar and con artist. Basically a "What's in it for me?" type, survives more on wits than brawn. Potential future Arcane Trickster. Maybe. Uses abilities to master merchantile activities - a little spy, a little lie, a little discreditiing others, and maybe just a little pilfering (rogue level or a few) ... but he's not the standard adventuring build and I'm worried about that.
STR 10
DEX 14
CON 13
INT 14
WIS 10
CHA 17 (+2)
Skills: Bluff, Know Arcana, Spellcraft, another
Feats: I'm thinking from Agile Maneuvers, Arcane Strike, Dodge, or Meta-magic Feat?
Weapon: Falchion
Spells: Charm Person (taboo in Qadira) and Disguise Self
Traits: Eastern Mysticism, Gifted Adept
Too much RP in the mechanical selections? Am I hindering myself and any potential party by going with such a build? I started reading the guides and they're all about optimization and I'm pretty far from that. Mostly I'm worried about the spells and feats. I envision him using his talents to give him the upper edge. I'm thinking with such a high bluff skill that I should be able to drop Charm Person (especially since mind control is frowned on in Qadira) and pick up something more utilitarian. The Summons would be more in line with the whole djinn aspect of Qadira, Mage Armor would be solid, and anything zappy would be good too.
Advice welcome.
Advice appreciated.
In all honesty this character is going to take a few levels before he can even contribute. Also known as party anchor.
I ran a first steps module just this past Sunday with a party consisting of 2 veteran pfs players, 1 guy who had played twice before, and 2 completely new PFS players. The cleric (2 session guy) got dropped by a lucky damage roll, as did the druid (vet). One newbe had his eidolon drop, but he still tried to contribute (using his summon monster 1), the bard (vet) used her net/whip combat manouvers to keep the enemy off the party, but the complete and utter lack of contribution by the party sorcerer (newbe) was appalling. No combat effective spells, and the best thing he could think to do was use a longspear (with no str bonus), or a use a ray (into combat, through a friend and summoned pony, at a prone enemy, -12 total penalty, +2 from dex, so -10 to hit, no kidding).
That sorcerer was more effective than your sorcerer is likely to be starting out. Sorry I'm that harsh, but that is the stone truth. PFS is very combat heavy, the social encounters are just skill challenges, the environmental stuff can be bullied through with str, gear, or magic, and roleplay is mostly optional (many players rightly get annoyed with too much RP due to spotlight hogging and time constraints, gms because they are required to run the module in specific ways, and they don't give you much room to adlib encounters, think JRPG npc dialogue).
When you make a character that is underpowered, or in this case completely useless in combat, all you do is raise the APL of the party, which means that you have the potential to raise the tier of the module to a higher difficulty. Which is a problem when your character is effectively a blank spot in the initiative order.
Another concern is the goal of the arcane trickster. Prestige classes are pretty underwhelming so far, and arcane trickster is not known for being a good prestige class. A 1/2 BAB + 3/4 BAB build up to it with the hit to caster level just makes it absolutely terrible to play to. Then the pay off isn't spectacular either.
My advice since this is PFS and your first PFS character is build something that is out of the box effective, and level it to stay effective. Its pretty rude IMHO to show up with a party anchor when people have put time and effort into their characters only to have a combat useless/social specialist character effectively non-contribute into a dead party member.
After you get a few session/levels under your belt, then its time to look into making "for fun" characters who aren't super optimized. The reason being is you should be able to know how much you can get away with. For instance I have a friend who plays a barbarian who doesn't wear armor. Not because he has a restriction, or can't afford it, but because he RPs it that way, and honestly nothing ever survives to hit it.
My witch went its first 4 levels without being hit by an enemy due to my experience as a player and knowing how to contribute without getting hurt. I was very annoyed when I took my first damage, because it was me playing with a bunch of ineffective builds. It was so bad the WITCH was the party tank (and party healer, 4 other people at the table with all PCs above lvl 1 and nobody had any potions or wands, 25 charges off my Personal wand to keep the party going). The 10 con witch was tanking enemies it was that bad (count them, healer, arcanist, tank, 3 roles I was playing, and the rest of the party combined couldn't even contribute the DPR effectively). I was at that window where PCs have a lot of time and personal investment into, yet without enough resources to pay for raise dead.
I have to disagree with the notion that a skills/social specialist is going to be useless. There are a lot of faction missions, especially in season 3, that require skills to complete, and if you can aid party members with those, they will love you for it.
I would probably think about switching out one of your spells for a better combat spell, though. You won't be able to talk your way through every encounter and you don't want to be ineffective once the fighting starts. However, I will also admit that I have a half-orc sorceress who was far more effective with her great axe at lower levels than with any of her damage dealing spells. Also don't forget that once you get 2 Prestige, you can pick up any first level wand...like Magic Missile. I know it doesn't sound like much, but being able to hit (almost) anything (including incorporeal creatures, creatures with DR, and creatures with high AC) with no miss chance is more effective than a lot of people realize.
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I have to disagree with notabot's advice.
There are some modules with are very combat heavy and go along with this idea that 'if you don't contribute you die!' attitude, your character seems just fine. PFS isn't *that* hard. If you know the basics and don't get caught on the frontline when you can't take it, you'll be okay. Be cautious with your play, not with your character choices.
I'd take the Diplomacy skill as a priority.
I don't think you want to get up close and personal with the enemy that much. Be prepared to have that falchion for show rather than use as you'll be inaccurate and easily taken out. Your hp is low.
I think if you want to play a social trickster/fighter with spells who can contribute, play an Bard?
I'd switch disguise self for enlarge person. You fight a lot of humans and a lot of undead in PFS. If you can't charm the undead, enlarge your friend so they can hack their head off. The 1 round casting time is a pain, but since most enemies have to move towards you to attack having a fighter with reach can end most fights before they start.
The axe isn't a bad idea either. At level 1 the dice are more important than the mods, and with a few lucky rolls you can be a half decent fighter.
In all honesty this character is going to take a few levels before he can even contribute. Also known as party anchor.THat's what I was afraid of, and why I asked. Since PFS is more about Opti I 'd better play one that is opti. Pooo. This one sounded fun.
Don't worry about it. You can walk through most pfs scenarios with a barely optimized party, and most arcanists take a level or two to get really good.
Color spray/enlarge person Might make for a better spell selection.
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There's an archetype called the Seeker, found in the Pathfinder Society Field Guide, which allows for either a Sorceror or Oracle to gain the equivalent of the rogue's Trapfinding class ability, plus the disable device skill is made a class skill, at the cost of bonus skills (for an oracle) or the eschew materials feat (for a sorceror). There are other substitutions at 3rd and 15th level too.
I have to disagree with the notion that a skills/social specialist is going to be useless. There are a lot of faction missions, especially in season 3, that require skills to complete, and if you can aid party members with those, they will love you for it.
I would probably think about switching out one of your spells for a better combat spell, though. You won't be able to talk your way through every encounter and you don't want to be ineffective once the fighting starts. However, I will also admit that I have a half-orc sorceress who was far more effective with her great axe at lower levels than with any of her damage dealing spells. Also don't forget that once you get 2 Prestige, you can pick up any first level wand...like Magic Missile. I know it doesn't sound like much, but being able to hit (almost) anything (including incorporeal creatures, creatures with DR, and creatures with high AC) with no miss chance is more effective than a lot of people realize.
Faction missions while being the main way to earn prestige are somewhat important, but are also secondary objectives. If you don't complete the primary objective, what happens? If you didn't get through 3 encounters, no XP, with season 3 and later, you also don't get your primary mission prestige. Also some faction missions have to be secret, especially early season ones. If you get help it can cause a failure of mission.
As for barely optimized parties cake walking, I agree with that mostly, but this character as presented isn't even that. He will get party members/self killed in those missions that are difficult (some of the ones that I thought were cake I've later read/ran, and in hindsight I just see that we got super lucky we handled the encounter the way we did, barbarian smash + environment control shuts down many tough encounters quickly enough you don't even know that the guy you stomped was a potential TPK machine). No ranged weapon, no strength, no offensive spells, barely any dex or con, some specializing in some skills but nowhere near to the level that those season 3 modules require to fulfill the "everybody loves the skillmonkey" role.
Sorcerers really don't have enough skill points even with decent int to be the skill monkey. They can be the party face due to prime ability score, but other than that they should concentrate on their spell casting. Changing out both spells is probably for the best, charm person is as likely to start hostility if it fails (depends on how GMs interpret things), and disguise self is of such limited utility its not funny. Change one out to color spray or grease (grease has been amazing in PFS in my experience). Or if you really are against having combat spells, a wand of MM is at least something for the low levels once you get prestige. 1d4+1 every turn for the encounter often contributes more that the rogues do (at low level if a rogue doesn't sneak attack, he is hitting infrequently and for sad amounts of damage).
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If you are going to go Arcane bloodline you might consider going with the Sage line instead. Same Bonus spells and feats you give up your familer in order to use intelligence instead of charisma for all your spells. This will let you get more skill and be a better skill person. It also gives you a arcane bolt which is basically a touch attack magic missile. all the other powers are the same.
As to the rest of the build, switch out disguise self for sleep or color spray and consider a spell focus to keep your dc high. If you take the Sage bloodline use stats like:
Str 10
Dex 12
Con 14
Int 18 (+2)
Wis 10
Cha 13
You want a high casting stat to keep you saves up. This become even more important as you take other enchantment, illusion and evocation spells. When you are knocking out opponents left and right you can shoot them with your arcane bolt (a touch attack) or pull out a cross bow if you really need.
You will be a solid character that is useful in most situations and keeps your feel.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Just as long as you have something productive to do every combat, I'd say you're fine. Take the build you have, make sure you have acid splash or a crossbow, and take a combat spell next level. You'll be fine.Sorcerers only gain a level 0 spell at level 2.
Whoops, thanks for the correction. In any case, the general idea stands: combat doesn't need to be your focus, you just need to be able to do something.
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Just as long as you have something productive to do every combat, I'd say you're fine. Take the build you have, make sure you have acid splash or a crossbow, and take a combat spell next level. You'll be fine.Sorcerers only gain a level 0 spell at level 2.
What? Page 71 says sorcs start with 4 level 0s and 2 level 1s. Confirmed on the chart on the next page. Am I missing something?
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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What? Page 71 says sorcs start with 4 level 0s and 2 level 1s. Confirmed on the chart on the next page. Am I missing something?Just as long as you have something productive to do every combat, I'd say you're fine. Take the build you have, make sure you have acid splash or a crossbow, and take a combat spell next level. You'll be fine.Sorcerers only gain a level 0 spell at level 2.
Talking about when you hit level 2.
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In any case, the general idea stands: combat doesn't need to be your focus, you just need to be able to do something.
QFT.
If you're contributing to the fight, nobody is going to accuse you of being a burden. If you're shooting into combat and will only hit if you roll a 19, you might be in trouble.My first character for PFS was optimised as I was used to deadly tactical home games. That character is now my least played character and I find him pretty dull compared to my other, more balanced characters who do much better in the 'versatile, not powerful' arena of PFS.
I say play your tricksy Sorceror. Just be careful to stay out of melee!
Finally if anyone is playing subpar niche builds (which is fine - #1 goal is to have fun) but needs time to grow into them? I recommend First Steps as your first 3 adventures. They aren't a cake walk but not likely to TPK your party either. Just be aware that if you are one of four or five people at the table, others need to compensate for your flavour in combat. If you have low combat efficiency? Be prepared to be valuable in other ways in combat - wands of infernal healing, summonings, aid another and so on.
Actually first steps part 1 has a scene that is a potential TPK. If you look at my first post for this thread you will see a bit of the rundown on it.
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Actually first steps part 1 has a scene that is a potential TPK. If you look at my first post for this thread you will see a bit of the rundown on it. ** spoiler omitted **Finally if anyone is playing subpar niche builds (which is fine - #1 goal is to have fun) but needs time to grow into them? I recommend First Steps as your first 3 adventures. They aren't a cake walk but not likely to TPK your party either. Just be aware that if you are one of four or five people at the table, others need to compensate for your flavour in combat. If you have low combat efficiency? Be prepared to be valuable in other ways in combat - wands of infernal healing, summonings, aid another and so on.
There's only one test for getting into the Pathfinders:
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Honestly being effective in combat is just a matter of having 1 useful attack, either a x/day bolt spell, a reliable cantrip and knowing where to aim it, a decent melee weapon and a minimum of 10-12 ST (+1 damage can make a big difference at low levels) or a ranged weapon.
I disagree with a 2 handed non reach weapon if you dont at least have a 14 ST as your not really getting any benefit out of it (no reach, damage bonus, power attack) you may as well be using a 1 handed weapon and still have a hand free for wands.
** spoiler omitted **