Need help trying to design a vampire offshoot race that survives off of magic in the same way that other vampires survive off of blood. Any ideas as to how reflect that in crunch? I looked at races like the nightshade and vampire for inspiration, as well as classes like the spell thief, but I'd like the race to be a playable one should characters choose to do so. (similar to the drow/drow noble in terms of playable and non-player character options.) Any thoughts?
undead(16)
medium(0)
normal speed(0)
advanced attributes 4 dex, -2 con, +2 int, wis, and charisma(4)
advanced charisma 2(8)
fast healing 1 (6)
quick reactions (2)
fast (1)
frightful gaze (6)
darkvision 60 (2)
light blindness (-2)
vulnerable to sunlight (-2)
spell resistance greater (3)
some kind of channel resistance... (3?)
this is pretty expensive, at least a +3 adjustment to level.
I would create the base race as you envisioned it (size, type, speed, stats, basic abilities, all the good stuff) and try to make it on par/balanced with something like the Dhampir. Then from there, work in how bad the drawbacks are for "starving" due to lack of magic to "eat." How much magic they need to survive will play a huge role at lower levels. Also define what is "edible" magic, by some definitions a life force could be considered magical for certain creatures. You really need to get that concept into the box so to speak so people know what they are getting into with race.
I would suggest granting the race SR (maybe 6+half character level) and when they successfully resist an effect they get a short term bonus from "eating" the magic. Figure out what that bonus should be (temp HP, a rage like effect to stats, etc.). From there design a feat tree (similar to the drow noble so the NPCs get all the bells and whistles) that the PCs can take to increase the "bonus." My suggestion would be at least one feat that increased the SR to 11+character level (around 5th/6th probably), another to increase the bonus (twice the HP, longer rage time, etc.), possibly one that allows them to syphon off magic from a magical item as a full round action (so they can use potions, scrolls, magical trinkets to not starve) while destroying the magical properties of the item.
That would be my suggestion off the cuff anyways.
You need to figure out whether you want the race to draw power from ALL sources of magic or just a limited range. I did a spell eating ugly some 25+ years ago that greatly drew upon the thrice cursed Rust Monster, only capable of sucking in the energy involved in an actual spell. I had to bump this to things like wand discharges and SLA in order to satisfy the players and 'logic'. It had no effect on items that had permanent effects.
How much energy is needed to just survive?
How fast does the drain occur?
Are there any effects on a character during the feeding? (Think the Quickening from Highlander) How about after feeding? (bloating while digesting) Can someone force feed to achieve a negative effect on the character?
Does 'life' count as magic? How about the 'life' of a natural spell caster such as a Sorcerer? A creature with SLAs?
Can this feature be used offensively or defensively? Does the creature gain extra oomph from ingesting magical energy just before an action.
We had 'blood zombies' once that recovered HP by eating/clawing away at living flesh, so you might consider giving them a sunder attack against magical items.
Do they HAVE to be undead? Some vampires of other mythos were living creatures.
Looking forward to these getting a bit more developed...
I've thought about this for sometime. I pretty much just used the regular vampire and swapped out the ability blood drain for magic drain. He absorbs spells or "Mana" I roll a dice for level of spell and a dice for number of spells drained. An older vampire can absorb spells from magic items making them mundane. Magic was treated as HP. Also he could smell magic ala scent.
I envisioned an entire region of my world pretty much devoid of magic because of a Magic vampire lord who was sapping it from the items, creatures and wizards.
I thought of putting my players there but thought my players would flip if I turned all their gear into non-magical items.
First off, thanks for the great ideas, guys! Here's a bit of racial background to help with the design process: In my campaign setting the Vampires and (for now lets call them "Magic Eaters" the Magic Eaters used to be the same race, but were split into 2 separate races: (possibly by a curse)one that subsists off of blood, and one that subsists off of magic. As time progressed, the two races grew to hate each other.
I've been perusing the advanced race guide, and come up with the following so far:
I'm thinking giving them the normal stat line {Dex+2, Wis+2, Con-2), plus "Ancient Foe: Vampires", which gives them a +2 dodge bonus and grapple bonus vs Vampires, and "Magehunter" which gives them a +2 to spellcraft to identify spell being cast, and a +1 to attack rolls vs arcane spellcasters.
Now I just need to find some form of balanced spell like ability or racial ability that drains magic, and spell resistance. Perhaps draining a memorized spell or spell slot can empower the Magic Eater for a time? Perhaps successfully draining magic is what powers their Spell Resistance?
And after the basics are set, It might be a good idea to base their feat progression in a similar manner to the Dhampirs in Advanced Race Guide, who can take a handful of feats to become fairly close to full blooded Vampires. (which reminds me, has anyone had a chance to take a look at the new Dhampir feats to see if they're worth it or not?)
My one concern with this route is that having a race which depends upon taking 4 or 5 feats to become effective severely limit the classes one can play effectively.
The Dhampir feats are kinda boring. The one that lets you drink blood is very flavourful, but it is limited to only one subtype of humanoid. You can then spend a feat to get another subtype of humanoid. I don't really see why they are so limited, but they are.
And after the basics are set, It might be a good idea to base their feat progression in a similar manner to the Dhampirs in Advanced Race Guide, who can take a handful of feats to become fairly close to full blooded Vampires. (which reminds me, has anyone had a chance to take a look at the new Dhampir feats to see if they're worth it or not?)
My one concern with this route is that having a race which depends upon taking 4 or 5 feats to become effective severely limit the classes one can play effectively.
In 3.5 yes, in PFRPG, not so much. 8th to 10th level if you need all the feats as a PC using just your leveling feats. But what you really want to do is given them weak base abilities which get improved/more options via the feats for a PC race. A little of it at first and if the player wants to improve it, bump it with a feat. As an NPC they have them all (like a drow & noble drow). You just need to space the power "bumps" out appropriately so the players don't get all the goodies too early.
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I found this thread while researching ways to have my vampire lord BBEG be different.
Quick story context, my BBEG is kind of based on Star Wars Revan - started very good, was forced to bad, tried to make it better again...
Lord Trevan (half-elf) was a very successful war strategist & warrior, good enough he was made a Lord and given a region of land to rule. He spent the next 20-30 years carving out a safe haven in his region - lots of nasty monsters (so he became known as a Monster Hunter as well). Fell in love with an elven women destined to protect magic in the region. He eventually went up against a group of vampires, and lost. His betrothed rejected him, & he left his land in charge of another & left vowing to fix his disease.
He reveled in his bloodlust but secretly studied them, eventually killing his creator & permanently trapping the rest of the vampires. He took all their wealth & books, & studied magic; found he could gain temporary knowledge from those he drank & in some cases even their abilities.
So, using what has already been suggested in this thread, & some somewhat similar magic eating abilities in D&D 3.5 & 5, I’ve tried to put together a feat trait tree. This is my first try at something like this. My goal is that this feat allows Trevan an option - he can consume blood (not something he likes to do) or he can optionally consume magic.
Vampire Variant / Vampiric Power / Feat:
Magic Eater
Pre-req: Vampire
Benefits:
Every spell slot, spell-like ability, supernatural ability or charges (aka “magic”) so drained, grants the magic eater the selected benefit (see below), that lasts for an hour if in excess of the normal maximum or as indicated below. This drain also sustains the character without blood for a number of days equal to the highest spell level drained in that day. The number of days of provided sustenance does not stack, but it does overlap with prior drainings.
Level 1:
* Gain SR 6 + Vampire Level.
* Can sense magic almost like smell (treat as Detect Magic at will as Swift Action, without victim’s knowledge, up to 20 feet radius or 60 foot cone).
**Can not detect any spell or spell-like ability specifically hidden by other magical means, but CAN detect a magical “aura” exists somewhere within their range. If focus for +1 rnd, reduces aura location to be a 15x15 foot area. If focus additional +1 rnd, can pinpoint exact spot of magical aura but not what the magic is. If focus additional +1 rnd, can also identify what school of magic the hiding magic is (but not the hidden magic). Focus is disrupted if Magic Eater can not see the victim AND victim moves.
***Magical Darkness counts as hiding (see above), unless it was cast by the Magic Eater.
***Any spell or spell-like ability that has “Greater” in title, increases detection ability focus by +1 rnd.
* If successfully rebuff any spell or spell-like ability, Magic Eater has “consumed” that magic and gains a benefit (pick 1):
** gain temp HP = spell/SLA level;
** gain temp stat bump = 1/2 spell/SLA level (eff. for 1d4+1 rnds) (Vampire chooses which stat)
* If successful touch attack (melee weapon or physical touch unarmed), victim takes non-lethal damage = DMG roll, and attacking creature can “consume” magic of/used by the victim, and gains a benefit (pick 1):
** gain temp HP = X spell/SLA level (X = roll 1d(Vampire Lvl), max victim’s spell levels); victim loses use of 1 spell slot/SLA at that level for the day.
*** If CRIT confirmed, temp HP = HP x crit multiplier.
** gain temp stat bump = 1/2 X spell/SLA level (X = roll 1d(Vampire Lvl), max victim’s spell levels); victim loses use of 1 spell slot/SLA at that level for the day.
*** If CRIT confirmed, temp stat bump to # of stats = crit multiplier.
Level 5:
* Gain SR 11 + Vampire Level
* Magic Eater now sees & can consume any kind of magic, including spells, spell-like abilities and supernatural abilities.
** Can sense magic almost like smell (treat as Detect Magic at will as Swift Action, without victim’s knowledge, up to 40 feet radius or 120 foot cone.
*** Can not detect any magic specifically hidden by other magical or supernatural means, but CAN detect a magical “aura” exists somewhere within their range. If focus for +1 rnd, reduces aura location to be a 15x15 foot area. If focus additional +1 rnd, can pinpoint exact spot of magical aura but not what the magic is. If focus additional +1 rnd, can also identify what school of magic the hiding magic is (but not the hidden magic). Focus is disrupted if Magic Eater can not see the victim AND victim moves.
*** Magical Darkness no longer counts as hiding.
*** Any magic that has “Greater” in title, increases detection ability focus by +1 rnd.
* The Magic Eater’s abilities have grown, allowing it to potentially reach through & into its victims to extract more of the magical essence.
** If successfully rebuff any magic, Magic Eater has “consumed” that magic and gains a benefit (pick 1):
*** gain temp HP = spell/SLA/SU level;
*** gain temp stat bump = spell/SLA/SU level (eff. for 2d4+1 rnds)
*** gain immediate use of that spell at the same level:
**** Offensive magic rebounds back & targets original caster/user;
**** Defensive magic is applied to Magic Eater (instead of original target);
**** If other type, then Magic Eater gains temp proficiency of that spell/SLA/SU & ability (must be used within 1d4+1 rnds). If magic level is above Magic Eater’s level/ability, it gains next level down equivalent of that same magic.
** If successful touch attack (melee weapon or physical touch unarmed), victim takes full DMG, and attacking creature can “consume” magic of/used by the victim, and gains a benefit (pick 1):
*** gain temp HP = X spell/SLA/SU level (X = roll 1d(Vampire Lvl), max victim’s spell levels); victim loses use of 1 spell slot/SLA/SU at that level for the day.
**** If CRIT confirmed, temp HP = HP x crit multiplier.
*** gain temp stat bump = 1/2 X spell level (X = roll 1d(Vampire Lvl), max victim’s spell levels); victim loses use of 1 spell slot at that level for the day.
**** If CRIT confirmed, temp stat bump to # of stats = crit multiplier.
*** gain temp use of 1 random applied or activated magic of victim (eff for 2d4+1 rnds) AND victim loses that magic (if SU/SLA magic, victim loses access to that ability for same amount of time, as if Anti-Magic for that specific magic)).
Level 10:
* Gain SR 11 + Vampire’s Level
* Can sense magic almost like smell (treat as Detect Magic at will as Immediate Action, without victim’s knowledge, up to 60 feet radius or 240 foot cone.
** Can not detect any magic specifically hidden by other magical or supernatural means if those hiding magic are greater than 1/2 the Magic Eater’s level, but CAN detect a magical “aura” exists somewhere within their range. If focus for +1 rnd, reduces aura location to be a 15x15 foot area. If focus additional +1 rnd, can pinpoint exact spot of magical aura but not what the magic is. If focus additional +1 rnd, can also identify what school of magic the hiding magic is (but not the hidden magic). Focus is disrupted if Magic Eater can not see the victim AND victim moves.
*** Magical Darkness & “Greater” magics no longer count as hiding.
* The Magic Eater’s hunger for & ability to focus on magic allows it to now consume magical essence from items, as well.
** All Level 5 abilities can optionally be applied to magic items, as well.
*** Any magic consumed from a magic item can optionally be immediately applied to the Magic Eater’s melee or natural weapons (if possible, else consumed as above).
*** Any magic consumed from a magic item is permanent (if charged or applied), or lost for that day (if enhancements are permanent).
**** Except Artifacts (+5 & above), for which magic consumed is lost for 1d4+1 rnds.
*** Sentient magical items get a WILL save (using item’s Will) vs the Magic Eater’s WILL.
**** Success = Magic consumed is NOT permanent; magic loss lasts 1d4+ rnds.
**** The item’s sentience can never be consumed!
*** Each magical enhancement of the magic item counts as its own unique “thing” (ie, keen, conductive, etc). If all magical enhancements for an item are consumed, it becomes mundane & no longer magical.
**** Except for Artifacts (+5 & above) & sentient artifacts. If all magics of the item are consumed before any are regained, then these items become inert/mundane until the next day.
*** For +1/+2/+3... straight enhancements, consider each level to be a unique “thing” when determining what magic is consumed. Subtract the level consumed from the item’s total +x enhancements to determine remaining enhancement. Example: if +2 of a +3 item is consumed the item has +1 remaining.
If in doubt as to level of the spell, supernatural or spell-like ability, fall back to the level being equal to the effect’s caster level (in the case of spell or spell-like abilities) or the CR of the effect’s creator (in the case of supernatural abilities).
TBD: How handle HOLY & magics from beings much more powerful?
Hoping to get some feedback from more experience DMs & creators here. Thanks!!
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I have something like this in a home brew game of D6 Fantasy. My "High Elves" are literal magic junkies with dilated pupils, voracious munchies and shortened lifespans. Partially based on blood elves from world of warcraft.
For pathfinder I'd give them something like Spellfilching from Cartmanbecks spellthief class as a racial feat. It's spellcraft 15+level to steal a spell.
Caveat: they must cast it on themselves immediately to gain sustenance. No banking it.
I'd make them fatigued any time they don't have some kind of spell effect active on them, and apply starvation rules for any full day they don't have a spell active.
Racial feats to improve it might include increasing the range of the ability or leaving the victim addled, like modify memory.
The race should be restricted to spellcasting classes, so that they can feed off their own magic in dire situations. This also allows them to go into a comatose hibernation that can last almost indefinitely. Whilst hibernating, they are helpless, but are still aware of their surroundings. Ending the hibernation is a free action, but you are sickened until you feed on magic other than your own.
I think the race should be given the Disruptive feat as a bonus feat.
I would use this mechanic from the Sandman Bard for the consumption of magic:
Stealspell (Su): A sandman can use performance to steal spells from his foes and add them to his list of spells known. Once the performance is started, the bard can steal a prepared spell or a spell known from another creature with a touch attack as a standard action. The target receives a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 the bard’s level + the bard’s Cha bonus) to negate the effect. The sandman may choose a spell to steal, but if the target does not possess the spell, the bardic performance immediately ends. Otherwise the spell stolen is random, but it is always of the highest level that the bard can cast, if possible.
I would also give them the Superstition Rage Power as a constant racial feature,
without the need to be raging:
Benefit: The Barbarian gains a +2 morale bonus on saving throws made to resist spells, supernatural abilities, and spell-like abilities. This bonus increases by +1 for every 4 levels the barbarian has attained. While raging, the barbarian cannot be a willing target of any spell and must make saving throws to resist all spells, even those cast by allies.
And have the Mage Eater Rage Power available as a Racial Feat @ level 10+, but make it once per hour, not dependent on rage:
Benefit: Once per rage, when a barbarian fails a saving throw against a spell, supernatural ability, or spell-like ability, she can reroll the saving throw against the effect (this is not an action). If she succeeds at the second saving throw, she is not affected by the spell, supernatural ability, or spell-like ability and gains a number of temporary hit points equal to the effect’s caster level (in the case of spell or spell-like abilities) or the CR of the effect’s creator (in the case of supernatural abilities). These temporary hit points last until damage is applied to them or 1 minute, whichever occurs first.
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I haven't logged in for nearly a year and a half and the very first post I see is one I was part of nearly 8 years ago. Crazy.
I love the idea of them getting fatigued or experiencing withdrawal if they don't get their fix.