Wren familiar stats?

[Tinalles]

Short question: where can I find the base stats for a wren familiar in 3.5?

Context:

So, I'm running the original 3.5 version of RotRL. My players fought Erylium this weekend. VERY tough fight for them at level 2, her AC is ungodly high, plus resistances and DR? Youch.

Anyway, Erylium's wren familiar got involved in the combat by delivering an Inflict Moderate Wounds spell to a PC (dropping said PC from full health to negative HP in the process).

The party members who weren't focused on healing the downed PC naturally wanted to attack the wren. I knew how many HP it would have (half Erylium's), but I'm less sure about AC. I eventually just picked 18 out of the air since that seems like a reasonable AC for a diminutive creature.

We had to wrap up the session in the middle of the fight. The wren's still alive, and I'd like to get its stats worked out for next time.

[RuyanVe]

Greetings, fellow traveller.

I'd go with raven and add the young template. Str 1, rest as written.

Ruyan.

[Rogue Eidolon]

RuyanVe wrote:

Greetings, fellow traveller.

I'd go with raven and add the young template. Str 1, rest as written.

Ruyan.

Why not just use a thrush?

[Tinalles]

Thrush works, though I'll have to backport it to 3.5 rules.

There shouldn't be too many changes, it's a 1 HD creature after all. Swap in Skill Focus (Spot) for Skill Focus (Perception), ditch the CMB and CMD and work out grapple modifiers. Anything else? Can't remember off the top of my head.

[Rogue Eidolon]

Tinalles wrote:

Thrush works, though I'll have to backport it to 3.5 rules.

There shouldn't be too many changes, it's a 1 HD creature after all. Swap in Skill Focus (Spot) for Skill Focus (Perception), ditch the CMB and CMD and work out grapple modifiers. Anything else? Can't remember off the top of my head.

You could also give Alertness instead of Skill Focus (Perception), since in 3.5 that gives +2 to both Spot and Listen.

[James Jacobs]

So.

The character in question has a wren because she's a Tiny creature herself, and giving her something the size of a raven would be weird. That would feel more like an animal companion to me rather than a familiar. And so, I gave her a really tiny bird.

As for stats... yes, use the thrush stats from page 120 of Ultimate Magic to build up this familiar.

[HerosBackpack]

Stats for a thrush familiar can be found in the 3.5 DMG, page 203, if you don't want to back-convert one from Pathfinder(and you have the book).

[RuyanVe]

Huh?
The raven is a tiny creature by itself, giving it the young template makes it dimunitive, right?
Leaves us with the decrease in Str as stated by applying the template - having it stay at 1 basically gives the same as a thrush has.

Ruyan.

[Rogue Eidolon]

RuyanVe wrote:

Huh?

The raven is a tiny creature by itself, giving it the young template makes it dimunitive, right?
Leaves us with the decrease in Str as stated by applying the template - having it stay at 1 basically gives the same as a thrush has.

Ruyan.

It would have 4 Con and 19 Dex if you used a young raven and 6 Con 15 Dex if you used thrush, which is a significant advantage for the young raven (since the detriments of low Con are lessened by using the master's HP).

[RuyanVe]

I was actually confused about the mentioning of the young raven having an "animal companion feeling", as both would be diminutive in size.

Since I do not own UC, I was not familiar (HA!) with the thrush, but that has changed now. *shrug*

Ruyan.