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So here's the deal, I've been running a game for a few months now; starting at level one and now everyone in the party is level seven. One of the players who was with us from the beginning was a new to Pathfinder and tabletops in general. She's playing a fighter/rogue with the two weapon warrior and the poisoner archetypes but now that she's finally gotten a hang of the system she wants to re-work her character (since we nearly built it for her in the first place) change some stats, feats, and maybe even where her levels went.
The basic idea she has going is a stealthy duel-wielding fighter type who uses poisons and is good in melee combat, and is decent in diplomacy and other charisma based skills. I'm meeting with her in an hour to discuss the build change and help her with it.
Do you guys have any ideas how we should go about this?
Currently she has 4 levels in fighter and just took her third rogue level.
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Sounds like she should rework her character to be a level 7 Ninja which is a charisma based rogue.
especially since it gets poison use
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Sounds like she should rework her character to be a level 7 Ninja which is a charisma based rogue.
especially since it gets poison use
Definitely something to consider but like I said she wants to be in melee as well duel wielding. That's were the levels in fighter came from, to give her the Bab, HD, and feats.
Definitely something to consider but like I said she wants to be in melee as well duel wielding. That's were the levels in fighter came from, to give her the Bab, HD, and feats.Sounds like she should rework her character to be a level 7 Ninja which is a charisma based rogue.
especially since it gets poison use
The Ninja is built for melee, you don't need fighter levels to be effective in melee, besides you'll have much higher sneak attack bonus going pure Ninja.
also the GangUp feat lets you treat an enemy as flanked if two other people are threatening it which is great for sneak attacks when your not able to get a real flank going
Ninja also has a ki pool she can do things with one of which is make extra attacks to have even more attacks while two weapon fighting
4 general feats is enough to make the Ninja the two weapon fighting melee, posion, charmer she wants without any fighter levels
you can even use your first pick of ninja trick to pick a combat bonus feat if you feel your lacking feats
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Ninja definitely sounds like a good choice. Instead of Rogue, you might consider a few levels of Vivisectionist Alchemist - you lose trapfinding, evasion, and rogue talents, and gain extracts, mutagens, and discoveries. Being able to concoct, say, Enlarge or Reduce Person, and to boost your strength by 4 for at least one combat per day, are pretty awesome, and that's the tip of the iceberg. Alchemy to craft poisons is nice too.
On the other hand, if she definitely wants to be a diplomat, ninja is situated quite nicely for her purposes. A 14 charisma and skill ranks to spare is plenty to be the party face, and she can get a Circlet of Persuasion (+3 to Cha-based skill checks) to be even more appealing.
PS: I tried using poison as a dual-wielding rogue, and I would NOT try to do it again. Make sure she knows she won't be using poison on every mook to come along, and she'll have to invest heavily if she wants a poison that has any chance of taking down a BBG.
EDIT: I can attest that using ki to throw a s#$$ ton of shuriken with Gang Up deals a pretty ridiculous amount of sneak attack damage.
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PS: I tried using poison as a dual-wielding rogue, and I would NOT try to do it again. Make sure she knows she won't be using poison on every mook to come along, and she'll have to invest heavily if she wants a poison that has any chance of taking down a BBG.
Yeah, we've had this conversation with her in the past. The big thing about this character is it's a character she came up with a long time ago for a comic and RP she did. She's one of those people who want that character they made in their minds to work perfectly with a set of limited rules.
As for applying poison in combat later on in the game I plan on giving everyone a specialized weapon that works with their character. Her's will be a rapier that can hold multiple doses of poison at a time.
PS: I tried using poison as a dual-wielding rogue, and I would NOT try to do it again. Make sure she knows she won't be using poison on every mook to come along, and she'll have to invest heavily if she wants a poison that has any chance of taking down a BBG.Yeah, we've had this conversation with her in the past. The big thing about this character is it's a character she came up with a long time ago for a comic and RP she did. She's one of those people who want that character they made in their minds to work perfectly with a set of limited rules.
As for applying poison in combat later on in the game I plan on giving everyone a specialized weapon that works with their character. Her's will be a rapier that can hold multiple doses of poison at a time.
she still needs access to poison use ability otherwise she can be exposed to her own poison
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Here's what I'm thinking so far. If she goes 7th level ninja then she'll have poison use, 3 tricks, and a sneak attack of 4d6 along with 5 feats: Stealthy, Skill focus (Stealth)[major focus on stealth here], combat expertise, gang up, two-weapon fighter
if she goes 4 levels fighter and 3 ninja she'll have poison use, a sneak attack of 2d6, and 1 trick. However she'll have 8 feats. Along with those mentioned above we could add improved feint, greater feint, and two weapon feint.
Edit: Fighter3/Ninja4, poison use, 2d6 sneak attack, 2 tricks, and 7 feats. I'm thinking this may be her best option at the moment but please lets keep expanding on this list!
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she still needs access to poison use ability otherwise she can be exposed to her own poison
well yeah, I'm not arguing against ninja but the poisoner archetype for rogues give poison use at level 1 as well. Like I said it's really her preference. I'm just trying to make her some viable options so she's not stunted with the vast amount of material.
Just be a Viv. Alchemist. Great in combat, and if you don't go Beastmorph, tons of poison-related class features, and the wonderful Sticky Poison and Poison Conversion discoveries.
Here's what I'm thinking so far. If she goes 7th level ninja then she'll have poison use, 3 tricks, and a sneak attack of 4d6 along with 5 feats: Stealthy, Skill focus (Stealth)[major focus on stealth here], combat expertise, gang up, two-weapon fighter
if she goes 4 levels fighter and 3 ninja she'll have poison use, a sneak attack of 2d6, and 1 trick. However she'll have 8 feats. Along with those mentioned above we could add improved feint, greater feint, and two weapon feint.
Edit: Fighter3/Ninja4, poison use, 2d6 sneak attack, 2 tricks, and 7 feats. I'm thinking this may be her best option at the moment but please lets keep expanding on this list!
I wouldn't recommend spending so many feats on stealth there's no real need, with a 16DEX a level 7 ninja has a +13 stealth check (+14 if you grab a trait with +1 stealth)
there's a camouflage trick which can boost that by +4 with 1 minute prep and lasts until you change it so +18
and then there's vanishing trick which gives her invisibility as a swift action for 1round/level for 1 ki so +38 stealth :P
There's also the Charmer trick that lets her roll 2 dice when making diplo checks and use the better which is awesome
So spend those feats you spent on stealth on the feint feats you had in mind and it'll do what you want it to do.
Oh I forgot the Ki Stealth class ability , 1ki point get +4 insight bonus to stealth checks for 1 round which is long enough to make you +18 check into a +22 check
yeah you really don't need to waste feats on stealth
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Here is my suggestion: The Shanker. I played it for an entire campaign and it was very viable in combat, if not a little glass-cannony. Still very fun.
I would definitely suggest the scout archetype, and probably also the knife master archetype.
Also, if you want combat viability, stealth is not the right way to go. Feinting can really help when you don't have a flanking partner, and two-weapon feint can be great.
Here is my suggestion: The Shanker. I played it for an entire campaign and it was very viable in combat, if not a little glass-cannony. Still very fun.
I would definitely suggest the scout archetype, and probably also the knife master archetype.
Also, if you want combat viability, stealth is not the right way to go. Feinting can really help when you don't have a flanking partner, and two-weapon feint can be great.
I would second this combination... if possible, add the charging hurler feat so that the rogue can 'charge' closer to an enemy, throw a knife at it, and gain the effect of the scout's charge (plus sneak attack dmg) which for the knife master can mean a handful of d8s quite frequently without actually needing to be close enough to get hit.
I'm meeting with her in an hour to discuss the build change and help her with it.
Heh I think the boat has sailed guys ;)