Trying to come up with a good representation of a Witch Doctor. Assume Core rules + APG + golarion sources only.
Here's a few options I came up with:
1. Black blooded Juju oracle. - Obviously a focus on necromancy and undead. My issue here is how to keep myself useful on my own turns, should I blow feats on longbow proficiency and ranged feats?
2. Pestilence bloodline sorcerer. This feels a little more versatile to me, and I think the bloodline fits well. I could focus on conjuration for a good controller.
3. Summoner, with a kickass voodoo themed eidilon (edit after writing this post)
Can anyone think of anything else that would fit well with the witch doctor idea?
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4. A Witch, who is also a Doctor (Healing patron, Healing hex, good Heal skill). Voodoo-themed hexes like Evil Eye and Agony, for sure, but flavor up stuff like Misfortune by fluffing it as bound spirits you keep in little clay jars on your belt, and send to hinder the actions of those you 'curse.' When you cast a spell, say 'Oo, ee, oo, ah ah, ting tang, walla walla bing bang.'
I read the thread title as "Making out with a doctor." Your actual question is a lot more easier to answer, as I have actual experience in this field.
I think you've missed something big, though. Make a witch doctor with... a witch. If you can use Ultimate Magic, there's an archetype (the gravewalker) that uses a voodoo doll, can cast animate dead, and can use her voodoo doll to make touch spells at a range. Witches are great at save-or-die spells, especially if they can cart around a few zombies or skeletons that are immune to her AoE effects, and you have all sorts of fun with your hex's as well when it comes to shutting people down. I'd say witches are the best save-or-lose casters out there with misfortune hex and evil eye. Play around with it and see what you can come up with.
If you go for a full caster, the Witch is definately the way to go.
4. When you cast a spell, say 'Oo, ee, oo, ah ah, ting tang, walla walla bing bang.'
Ninja'd. Bahaha this is awesome.
Unfortunately Ultimate Magic is out, but perhaps I'll have a play with the witch class. I've never really been interested in it before so it will be completely new to me.
That's a shame, ranged bestow curse spells are hard to beat. Have a hunt through the witch guides here to get a feel for your options and work on your accent! Have fun!
I would love to play this.
But the DM is already having kittens over people asking for stuff he isn't happy with.
I'll be honest I'm not convinced by witch, I have never really enjoyed playing int based classes for some reason, preferring charisma. (Always choose sorcerers over wizards etc)
Did you take a look at the Juju Oracle? I feel that by mixing it with the black blooded archetype it could be quite fun?
I attach his latest email below:
+++++FROM THE GM OF THIS CAMPAIGN+++++++++++
"Right thats it.
Despite repeated attempts to comunicate what Im after in this campaign to you guys (and a s%+@ load of work on my part) It appears as if my pleas have fallen (in part) on deaf ears.
Ive been met with b%%$%ing, repeated requests for material outside of the allowed sources, requests to house rule feats in favor of PC's, and some rather odd character 'concepts'.
To reiterate - It is Core rulebook and the APG only, as affected by my House rules. Golarion 'official' sources are also in. No other sources allowed. Period.
I will also reserve the right (DM's perogative) to nerf or ban s$%@ at any time.
If any of you have an issue with this then feel free to not participate in the campaign if you dont want to. If I get less than 4 players, the game is off.
For those of you that still wish to participate, please send 1st level characters (stats, class, race and feats) to me by COB Sunday. You have your rolls already (and I have a record of those rolls)
As you may or may not be aware, Im running the Age of Worms campaign (should it go ahead). I urge you to work together to create a balanced party (caster/ rogue/ fighter type/ cleric), however at the end of the day, create whatever party composition you want.
FYI, any further requests will be met with: No.
This is the campaign Im running; Age of Worms, Core rulebook, Golarion specific and APG.
I understand if you dont wish to participate, and respect that decsion not to"
++++++ END EMAIL+++++++
My stats are:
Str: 10
Dex: 14
Con: 13
Int: 11
Wis: 11
Cha: 15
Human (Mwangi) Blackblooded Juju Oracle
Curse: Black blooded
Level 1 revelation: Undead Servitude
Suggestions for first two feats boys?
No lol! That's the GM's email to the group....
I'm letting you guys know how serious he is over no other content as you asked what he is disallowing...
He's a really cool guy, he's just a bit stubborn and likes to exercise control when it comes to RPG's
Any chance I can get some feat help for my oracle? Don;t know where to start.
*edit*
Maybe that was kinda snarky, but this seems REALLY stereotyped...
Yikes! Yeah, some GMs (myself included) tend to go full-nazi when it comes to character creation. That's the time you really have to lay down the law, but it usually just ends up being maddening. I'd merit a guess that you're not the one that's driving him up the wall, though. And "official supplements" is very vague, especially if that means no Ultimate series. I can't imagine why he's being bombarded with questions... :p
Anyhow, I'm afraid my peek at the oracle simply ended in me running amok and finishing statting up my old witch PC again (I'd lost the original sheet somewhere, sorry!) I know there are plenty of posters around that could tell you how to build one though, or you could check the optimisation guides in that link up above or search the forums for a juju oracle build. You might just have to wait for them to get out of bed!
Judging by the what your GM is saying though I'd see what the other players want to use and stick close to the fighter/rogue/cleric/wizard template. The Oracle is more or less a cleric, and the witch can fill in for the wizard. I'd suggest asking your GMs stance on undead, BUT IN THIS CASE, I'd counsel you just leave him alone and show up with your witch or oracle and let him state a problem with it then. Right now I'd guess anything you ask him will end in a "no". I've been there.
As I don't really have much optimisation advice left for you, I'll bow out now. Good luck!
"Cool guy" or not, that email came off as a butthurt, self-righteous child.
Before you libel the guy, we should probably hear what asinine options have been presented to him in the past. I feel his pain, we have one player that every time a new game starts I have to answer the same question with "no, you can't play as a swarm"
Feat wise I'm thinking:
Improved channel: Because this will increase the DC for my command undead ability
I really can't think what to take as my second starting feat. At this point it's either Improved initiative, toughness or martial weapon proficiency - Longbow.
Spell Focus Necromancy for Varisian Tattoo at 3rd level. Giving me a +1 CL on animate dead which = +2HD of juju zombies.
Apparently this build I submitted is 'broken' and too powerful.
Back to the drawing board. No necromancers.
So you not only have to deal with the guy, but you have to submit a legal character only to be told you can't play it?
Here's what I'd do:
Find all the other guys the DM told no, and make your own campaign.
And, have fun.
It sounds like you will more so in that, than with this guy.
(Not be snarky but seriously- he says CRB+APG, you pick APG and he says no? harumph.)
It does *not* sound like you are gonna have fun in the story he's telling.
-S
So you not only have to deal with the guy, but you have to submit a legal character only to be told you can't play it?
Here's what I'd do:
Find all the other guys the DM told no, and make your own campaign.
And, have fun.
It sounds like you will more so in that, than with this guy.
(Not be snarky but seriously- he says CRB+APG, you pick APG and he says no? harumph.)
It does *not* sound like you are gonna have fun in the story he's telling.
-S
Well, the Blackblooded oracle is from Inner Sea Magic, so there is that.
You've got a point, though. I wouldn't want to play with that person. But then I'm someone who has penchant for weird characters, and I would not be happy in a group with him.
So you not only have to deal with the guy, but you have to submit a legal character only to be told you can't play it?
Here's what I'd do:
Find all the other guys the DM told no, and make your own campaign.
And, have fun.
It sounds like you will more so in that, than with this guy.
(Not be snarky but seriously- he says CRB+APG, you pick APG and he says no? harumph.)
It does *not* sound like you are gonna have fun in the story he's telling.
-S
Well, the Blackblooded oracle is from Inner Sea Magic, so there is that.
You've got a point, though. I wouldn't want to play with that person. But then I'm someone who has penchant for weird characters, and I would not be happy in a group with him.
True, but he specifically told them CRB+APG+GOlarion.. so its not like some random 3pp splatbook he's trying to bring ing.. he's specifically using hte material he was told to use, and not even in some cheesy off the wall "5 abilities from 5 books that combine to form.. VOLTRON!" build or nuttin.
I mean, I get the "he's my friend" thing and all that but if he's already being this weird I just can't see the campaign being all that fun.. especially after already being told you can't play something he already said was legal just.. no.
-S
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I don't mean to be disrespectful Selgard, but people on boards here can just as easily judge others to fast on something they themselves don't know about.
You have absolutely no idea what kind of person this guy is. Maybe he had bad day or if 8 people poke you in the face constantly ignoring your words and seeing themselves, he blew.
Maybe he had to large history of people min maxing chars, you never know.
Apparently this build I submitted is 'broken' and too powerful.
Back to the drawing board. No necromancers.
Well, I agree, hard to see "broken" with those stats..but *shrugs*.
Perhaps you could keep most of your Flavor by using an Ancestor oracle instead? (I would have suggested Bones...but sounds like animate dead is a No No)
Greg
In general terms, if he's banning the oracle you proposed because its "too powerful" steer as far clear of summoner as possible. He is just not gonna like seeing one of those in action.
Along the same lines, I'd advise strongly against playing ANY kind of SoS/SoD build. This sounds like the type of DM that will magically make every save when he doesn't want you ruining his monster, making your build/spell selection worthless. Even if he's not that type, he's definitely interested in controlling the game, which means if you succeed at SoD/SoS tactics, you'll absolutely ruin his fun, and therefore the game itself. So that effectively rules out the Witch class anyway.
He may even be the type to get annoyed at basic battlefield control. This type of thing isn't usually as bad as debuffing though, so perhaps a Controller Wizard/Sorcerer could be on the table. With necromancer builds (and I'd wager summoning heavy builds as well, since its effectively the same thing) off the table, I'm skeptical you can really hit the flavor you want with those classes.
All that in mind, I'd go with an ancestor oracle, as suggested above. You don't have to focus on SoS spells, you can be a plenty solid healer and buffer, and with a bit of feat investment you can be very functional in melee or ranged, especially with some of the revelations. You can also fill the diviner role to play up "communication with the spirits", perhaps even using the Seer archetype. Although in truth, this type of DM isn't very likely to be very forthcoming when divinations are used.
The DM is expressing what I think many of us DMs go through. What is presented in the rules is never enough for some players.
I love the suggestions for Ancestor Oracle...
But that's Ultimate Magic!!!!?!
:)
I love the suggestions for Ancestor Oracle...
But that's Ultimate Magic!!!!?!
:)
DARN IT!! sorry.
EDIT: Okay, how about Sorcerer using Serpentine or Aberant or destined bloodlines. And manipulate fluff of still being a mwangi fellow straight from the jungle. ( serpentine probably works best..just one of my least faves :P ) Or um...Sorcerer using protean.. and um... you just change your background info everytime you share it. A la Joker from the dark night. .. I dunno.. I get feeling straightjacketed when I hear your first concept was too powerful O.o!
Greg
I would take as curse haunted
Feats
School Focus Necromancy and Greater School focus Necromany
School Focus Enchament and Greater School Focus Enchamnt
Extra Revelation Revelation class feature Gain one additional revelation
Reach Spell — Increase spell range to higher range category
Additional Traits — Gain two additional character traits
Expanded Arcana Caster level 1st, see feat Add one or two spells to list of spells known
Enforcer* Intimidate 1 rank Demoralize opponent as free action when you inflict nonlethal damage
Eldritch Heritage chain of feat if you can take it for undead blood line, Serpentine blood line, or shadow blood line abiltys.
Traits
AnatomistP
Source Pathfinder RPG Character Traits 3
You have studied the workings of anatomy, either as a student at university or as an apprentice mortician or necromancer. You know where to aim your blows to strike vital organs and you gain a +1 trait bonus on all rolls made to confirm critical hits.
BirthmarkP
Source Pathfinder RPG Character Traits 4
You were born with a strange birthmark that looks very similar to the holy symbol of the god you chose to worship later in life. This birthmark can serve you as a divine focus for casting spells, and, as a physical manifestation of your faith, increases your devotion to your god�you gain a +2 trait bonus on all saving throws against charm and compulsion effects as a result.
Sacred TouchP
Source Pathfinder RPG Character Traits 5
You were exposed to a potent source of positive energy as a child, perhaps by being born under the right cosmic sign, or maybe because one of your parents was a gifted healer. As a standard action, you may automatically stabilize a dying creature merely by touching it.
Diabolical DabblerP
Source Cheliax: Empire of Devils 19
Each fiendish animal you conjure with any summon spell gains +1 hit point per hit die for the duration of the spell that summoned it.
Second Tongue (Old Cults)
Source Faction Guide 63
Using an ancient and painful surgical technique, you�ve reshaped your tongue. These surgical mutilations permit you to speak ancient words unpronounceable to most mortals, enhancing your ability to work magic associated with the Great Old Ones. Any summoning or divination spell you cast to summon or contact a Great Old One or one of their minions is cast at +1 caster level.
Two-World Magic (Sargavan)P
Source Sargava: The Lost Colony 23
You have bridged the gap between the natural magic of the Mwangi peoples and the refined magic of the Chelish colonists. Select one 0-level spell from a class spell list other than your own. This spell is a 0-level spell on your class spell list (or a 1st-level spell if your class doesn�t have 0-level spells). For example, if you are a druid, you could select mage hand and thereafter prepare it as a 0-level druid spell; if you are a sorcerer, you could select know direction as a 0-level sorcerer spell known.
Spells
Doom
Casue fear
Sotto Voce
Source Faction Guide 61
School necromancy [fear, mind-affecting, sonic]; Level bard 1, cleric 0, sorcerer/wizard 0
Casting
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V
Effect
Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./level)
Target one humanoid creature of 4 HD or less
Duration 1 round
Description
Your dry, rasping whisper fills a living creature of 4 or fewer Hit Dice with unnatural dread. The affected creature must make a Will save or be shaken for 1 round.
Defending Bone
Source Gods and Magic 31
School necromancy; Level cleric 2, sorcerer/wizard 2 (Pharasma)
Casting
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, F (a Medium creature’s skull or femur), DF
Effect
Range personal
Target you
Duration 1 hour/level or until discharged
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance no
Description
You animate a bone with necromantic energy, giving it the power to float near your body and interpose itself against physical attacks. This gives you damage reduction 5/bludgeoning. Once the bone has prevented a total of 5 points of damage per caster level (maximum 50 points), it is destroyed and the spell is discharged. This spell has no effect if you have damage reduction from another source.
Saving Throw Will negates; Spell Resistance yes
Description
Is this the class?
Oracle
Juju Mystery
Source Pathfinder #39 68
Oracles with the Juju mystery have the following abilities and options.
Deities: Wendo
Class Skills: An oracle with the juju mystery adds Bluff, Intimidate, Knowledge (nature), Perform (oratory), and Survival to her list of class skills.
Bonus Spells: speak with animals (2nd), hideous laughter (4th), fear (6th), charm monster (8th), create undead (as a 5th-level spell; juju zombies only; see sidebar) (10th), magic jar (12th), creeping doom (14th), trap the soul (16th), shapechange (18th).
Revelations: An oracle with the juju mystery can choose from any of the following revelations.
Beast Tongue (Ex): Choose a single type of animal (birds, cats, snakes, fish, and so on). You can communicate with these creatures as if you were constantly using the spell speak with animals. Although this ability grants you the ability to converse with such creatures, it grants you no special influence over them.
Craft Juju Fetish (Ex): You can craft juju fetishes as if you possessed the Craft Wondrous Item feat. All juju fetishes you create are treated as being CL +1. If you possess this revelation and Craft Wondrous Item, all juju fetishes you create are treated as being CL +2.
Dream Haunter (Su): You can send your spirit to torment another being’s dreams. A number of times per week equal to 1 + your Charisma modifier, but only once per day, you can cast the spell nightmare. You must be at least 11th level before selecting this revelation. At 15th level, you can also pass on a message as part of the nightmare, as per the spell dream.
False Death (Su): Add charm person and dominate person to your spell list. You must select these spells using your allotment of spells known. Any creature under the effect of one of these spells or charm monster appears dead to any examiners. Although affected creatures do not detect as undead, they look pale and death-like while under the effects of your magic. Additionally, an affected creature ordered to lie still gains a +20 circumstance bonus on Disguise skill checks to look like a corpse.
Juju Sight (Ex): You can recognize other wendifa on sight, reading the emanations of their magic. In addition, you gain a +2 bonus on Spellcraft checks made to identify juju fetishes, and your detect magic and identify spells have no chance of destroying such items.
Natural Divination (Ex): You can read the entrails of a freshly killed animal or humanoid to gain an insight bonus equal to your Charisma modifier on one saving throw. Alternatively, by observing and interpreting the flight of birds, you may apply a +10 competence bonus on any one skill check. Finally, by charting marks in dirt or on stone, or observing the behavior of sand thrown into the wind, you gain a +4 insight bonus on one initiative check. These bonuses must be used during the next 24 hours, and you must declare you are using the bonus before the check or save is made. Making a natural divination takes 10 minutes. You may use natural divination (in any combination) once per day plus one additional time per day for every four oracle levels you have attained.
Path of the Snake (Su): As a standard action, while in contact with earth or a living plant, you can become shadowy and incorporeal. While in this form, you gain a +10 bonus on Stealth checks and can move in any direction and through any object (except for those made of force). You can take no action other than to move while in this form. You remain in this form for a number of rounds equal to your oracle level, but you can end this effect prematurely with a standard action. You can use this ability once per day at 11th level, and twice per day at 15th level. You must be at least 11th level to select this revelation.
Reminder of Death (Su): You can imbue a handful of salt with the power of life, making it a potent ward against undead creatures. As a standard action, you can throw salt at a single undead creature within 5 feet, affecting it as per the spell halt undead. Alternatively, you can spend a full-round action covering a 5-foot-square with imbued salt, causing any single undead creature that enters this square within the next 10 minutes to be affected as per halt undead. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier. The save DC is Charisma-based.
Spirit Vessels (Su): You can channel wendo spirits into lifeless bodies, reanimating them to aid you. Necromancy spells that create undead lose the evil descriptor when you cast them. Mindless undead created by your magic are of neutral alignment, while thinking undead possess your alignment. When using the animate dead spell, you can control 6 HD worth of undead creatures per caster level rather than 4 HD. In addition, any zombies or juju zombies you create using animate dead, create undead, or similar spells possess maximum hit points.
Undead Servitude (Su): You gain Command Undead as a bonus feat. You can channel negative energy a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier, but only to use Command Undead. You can take other feats to add to this ability, such as Improved Channeling, but not feats that alter this ability, such as Alignment Channel.
Final Revelation: You gain mastery over spirits and the fundamentals of life. When you cast trap the soul, you can choose to imprison just the target’s soul in the gem as per the spell magic jar, leaving its body soulless and, by all appearances, dead. Once the gem is occupied by a soul, you may, as a standard action, swap your essence with that in the gem, giving the trapped soul control over your body while harboring your own spirit within the gem. While within the gem, you have no control over your body or the soul occupying it, but may attempt to possess other creatures — including your now possessed body — as per the spell magic jar. Alternatively, you may swap souls between other creatures. By trapping a soul within a gem you can then use that gem to make a single touch attack against another creature. If you succeed, the target must succeed at a Will save or have its soul trapped within the gem, while the soul in the gem transfers into the target’s body. The soul within the gem does not gain the power to possess other creatures (as per magic jar) and the gem cannot be used to transfer souls again unless a second trap the soul spell is cast upon it.
Also as is there way to make feat or item ect to get non cleric spell on you list to take. To fit you theme. Ie ray of enfebullemt.
On side note you need to bring GM/ DM cold Drink to smooth things over. Have fun let us know how things turn out?!?!