| NeoFax |
My campaign is coming to an end and I would like to make the final BBEG a little more challenging than the norm. So the biggest threat to him is the Gunslinger in the party who basically kills everything in two rounds due to his only having to beat their Touch AC. I looked on d20PFSRD for a magic item that can either negate his damage or slow it down. Any thoughts?
| Pharmalade |
My campaign is coming to an end and I would like to make the final BBEG a little more challenging than the norm. So the biggest threat to him is the Gunslinger in the party who basically kills everything in two rounds due to his only having to beat their Touch AC. I looked on d20PFSRD for a magic item that can either negate his damage or slow it down. Any thoughts?
There is the Amulet of Bullet Protection, which gives a luck bonus to touch AC vs firearms. It's a little, "Oh look, you have a gunslinger so I'm gonna protect against you" but if its what you need its what you need and I'm sure you can somehow rationalize it. It's in the d20pfsrd under Firearms. It's a luck bonus so it would stack with a deflection bonus.
Other ways to negate firearms: Slow spell to reduce ability to use full round actions, water spells to hopefully soak gunpowder, target their ammo in the way you'd target a wizard's spellbook or bonded object if you feel evil. If your BBEG is prepared for them, you can have some pretty overt anti-gunpowder tricks up his/her sleeve.
Edit: Gunslingers are also pretty good against gunslingers, able to use Gunslinger's Dodge against ranged attacks (archetype pending, and the Gun Tank archetype gets bonuses against bullets where it doesn't get dodge). If your BBEG has a gunslinger of his own as a henchman/woman, you can pit one against the other whilst the BBEG attempts to mop the rest of the party.
Wolfthulhu
|
An Arrow Deflection shield can possibly negate 1 attack per round. A loyal follower with an Arrow Catching shield can help as well.
Look for ways to blind the Gunslinger. If BBEG is a caster Compulsion/Charm spells can help.
Iron Bands of Binding could take the Gunslinger out of action until dealt with. That's pretty extreme though.
| NeoFax |
No, just that to me Gunslingers are a very rare entity and he has been treated strangely everywhere he went due to this. So having one miraculously show up now at the end just as a mechanic to negate him is kind of a d-bag move. Also, I am not a big fan of the Gunslinger it took a lot of begging and pleading from him to get me to allow him to play one.
| notabot |
What class and level is the BBEG? If he is an arcane caster he could just have walls of force he hides behind while he casts summon spells next to the ranged characters (and a shield guardian for melee characters). Also you could just hit him with save or suck spells (preferably some without saves, like maze lol)
| Guy Kilmore |
| 7 people marked this as a favorite. |
So PC Shooty MCBoom. I have heard of your "exploits," the ruin and destruction that you have rained down upon my men with your infernal device. I knew you were an oddity, a rarity, but not one without merit. I found another in this land who desires to challenge your supremacy, meet NPC Trigger McBoomStick. Now you will die by the very device you "mastered!"
M'wha hahahahahahah *cough* *hack* *cough* hahahahahaha
Wolfthulhu
|
Disarm/sunder. Bestow Curse for the 50% chance of no action. Pugwumpi's Grace for the lowest of 2 d20 rolls.
| Keovar |
Give the bad guy a good number of ranks in knowledge local, or lackeys with knowledge and information-gathering skills. Unless your party has been sure to destroy all evidence of those they've fought, there would be bullets in the bodies much deeper than any sling could have slung them, and an examination of the bodies would have found them. Knowledge local seems the most likely skill for someone that keeps up with recent developments in the world around them, so having heard of guns would not be unreasonable.
Besides personal protection like deflection bonuses to AC, a readied action to use Hydraulic Push when the gunslinger is reloading (and thus has his powder exposed) could mess things up for him. Best of all, a 'slinger's poorest save is generally Will, and charm or domination spells are a great way to turn any enemy party's most dangerous weapons back upon them.
| Mike J |
It is not an item, but Bullet Shield should do the trick. If you combine that with any one or two of the other methods, it should prevent the gunslinger from taking out your BBEG and still allow the gunslinger to be somewhat effective. You want to be careful not to completely counter-build the gunslinger by having your BBEG have an AC that is like 20/75/15.
| Fallen_Mage |
So PC Shooty MCBoom. I have heard of your "exploits," the ruin and destruction that you have rained down upon my men with your infernal device. I knew you were an oddity, a rarity, but not one without merit. I found another in this land who desires to challenge your supremacy, meet NPC Trigger McBoomStick. Now you will die by the very device you "mastered!"
M'wha hahahahahahah *cough* *hack* *cough* hahahahahaha
I'm going to have side with Kilmore here on how to have a GS Henchman for your BBEG. Also, spam Mirror Image. I had a Sorceror using Fly and Mirror Image to keep my Glabrezu BBEG from crushing his skull, kept hitting the wrong one.
Mergy
|
Fickle winds, depending on your interpretation of the spell, either gives a character complete immunity, or reduces the gunslinger's damage by 30%. Combine that with mirror image and he'll have problems.
Stoneskin would also significantly reduce damage, unless the gunslinger routinely makes use of adamantine bullets (which are expensive).
| Abandoned Arts RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32 |
If you can successfully nail his gun with a greater dispel magic, a simple protection from arrows spell should utterly shut him down.
You could blind him, as suggested above, or simply place a fog cloud or some other form of total concealment or total cover between the gunslinger and you. A wall of [whatever] spell will tangle him up for as long as it takes the battlefield controllers and problem-solvers in the group to free him up. Better yet, drop an enlarged solid fog spell on him, directly.
Deflect Arrows will help, but (depending on your level), it probably won't do more than cut his damage output down by a percentage. Illusions are a solid bet. Use mirror image, or place multiple illusion spells down in order to confuse opponents as to your actual location. Cast spells for which the point-of-origin is not apparent.
Here's a neat suggestion! Take the Wind Stance and Lightning Stance feats. Combined with other defenses, these feats would help immensely, and would also protect your BBEG against rays and spells that require touch attacks. Combine with flight for extra oomph.
Things like an amulet of bullet protection as suggested above aren't "metagaming" as long as the BBEG knows that he's going up against a powerful gunslinger. That said, I'm not sure that particular magic item provides a bonus large enough to really stop a gunslinger. Luck bonus or not, the gunslinger isn't just hitting touch AC... he's hitting touch AC with a full base attack bonus, an enhancement bonus on his weapon, and Dexterity as a primary attribute.
Then there's a good old fashioned sundering. Substitute with Disarm maneuvers if you're feeling merciful. Bestow curse is another old standby that's pretty damn useful in shutting down just about anybody. How's his Will save?
If nothing else, you could always consider slapping him with a save-or-die or save-or-screwed effect right off the bat. Something that will at least tie up a party member or two for a while, as the party tries to reverse whatever you've done. Finger of death, hold monster, prismatic spray, flesh to stone, weird, and dominate person or dominate monster are all good choices, though several others exist.
Good luck!
Daron Woodson
Abandoned Arts
Mergy
|
Variation on the mirror image idea: Give the BBEG a bunch of clones or simulacrums. It'll make the combat dynamic as they're all running around attacking various party members, and even if the gunslinger drops your BBEG in one round, whoops, turns out it was the guy next to him all along (If you want, you can even cheat a bit and say that until they destroy x number of them, they haven't found the right one).
| Doomed Hero |
Disintigrate/disjunction/dispel magic/sunder to negate the weapon itself.
A dancing shield of arrow deflection plus a glove of arrow snaring negates two ranged attacks per round.
Aqueus Orb or a couple Water Elementals can easily soak all of his powder.
Even something as simple as fog to ruin his line of sight can take him out of the fight for a while.
I recommend using all of these tricks at once. :)
| Serisan |
Environmental effects can have a significant impact here. A strong storm (rain and severe wind) imposes a -8 on ranged attack rolls and perception checks, as well as reducing visibility by 1/2 (-4 for each, rain adds the visibility reduction).
Wind Wall or Fickle Winds are also easy options.
If you really want to be a dick, Hostile Levitation can be used to great effect if you levitate the target into areas that no longer provide LoS.
| Serisan |
I can't believe nobody's suggested this:
High touch AC.
Most of the time, AC is a speed bump. Gunslingers get very, VERY high attack bonuses for Touch AC. If BBEG is a high level Monk, sure, but it's not exactly easy to get high Touch AC on most characters/NPCs. Also, depending on the BBEG, you might have fewer options for this than you might for external effects.
| NeoFax |
The BBEG is a Efreeti Fighter 5 CR 17 and the PCs are 14th level. His stats are AC 34, Th 16, FF 30. 1 is the Gunslinger, another is a Air Specialist Wizard from the APG, another is a Dwarf Cleric of Desna(Travel/Liberation), another is a Shadowdancer/Rogue and the final is a Paladin. Yes, he knows all about them as they haven't tried to hide anything they have done and he has minions/henchmen that report to him.
| Abyssian |
I second (fifth?) the concealment angle. Devils are GREAT for this since they can see in Deeper Darkness and the GS probably cannot. As a bonus, they are absolutely normal BBEGs, so no "unfair targeting" arguments. Fog Cloud and scent/blindsense/tremorsense/blindsight will also suck pretty bad for any ranged characters (not just GSs).
So, basically, don't use a thug-type monster; use a slippery one who is difficult to target.
EDIT: I'm too late. BBEG is not a devil. Oh, well.
| thegreenteagamer |
The BBEG is a Efreeti Fighter 5 CR 17 and the PCs are 14th level. His stats are AC 34, Th 16, FF 30. 1 is the Gunslinger, another is a Air Specialist Wizard from the APG, another is a Dwarf Cleric of Desna(Travel/Liberation), another is a Shadowdancer/Rogue and the final is a Paladin. Yes, he knows all about them as they haven't tried to hide anything they have done and he has minions/henchmen that report to him.
Give the Efreeti a sidekick. Have sidekick wish in the first round for gunslinger 's guns using the free racial wish of Efreeti. Problem solved.
...now its onto the problemofthe pissed player.| Abyssian |
Efreet have invisibility 3x/day, too. It could easily quickened scorching ray the squishiest looking character, invisibility, walk over to whoever looks vulnerable. Next turn giant shape I and continue toward Wizard. Full attack the Air Wizard. The Efreeti is not dumb, either, so remember to gaseous form him when his HP get low; he can harass the party later with some buddies.
He could also have placed a few permanent images and/or place a wall of fire on the GS to throw a monkey-wrench in the works. Efreet aren't meant to be little punks and they have all the tools to wreck unprepared parties.
EDIT: also, make sure he walks to the side of the Wizard that is opposite the GS so when he start wailing away at him he'll have cover (-4 to hit) and be in melee (-4 more to hit) if your GS hasn't bothered to invest in precise and improved precise shot feats, that'll give him 1 greater effective AC to the GS than his regular, non-touch AC.
| Brotato |
Spoiler Alert:
| Andro |
Terrain.
Line of sight obstacles will put a serious damper on the Gunslinger - no LOS, no attacks. If your BBEG is a high-mobility bloke waging a running fight among pillars and curtains or trees and bushes or whatever, he may easily be forcing your Gunslinger to reposition every round to clear his LOS, thus losing his full-round attacks. Maybe think about things such as fire or water VS gunpowder - a BBEG's lair that's partially submerged, for example, may get Gunslinger's powder wet, giving him a misfire chance on every shot...
Also keep in mind that both Gunslinger's and BBEG's buddies can potentially present obstacles to ranged attacks (see rules on cover etc).
If you are looking for more "arcane" solutions, there's a plenty of spells that can help without being specifically Anti-Gunslinger - for example Burning Disarm, Black Tentacles, Fear etc :D
| Lemmy |
What about staying further than 30ft away from him? This way he'll have to hit normal AC and have a -2 penaly to attack due to range increment.
Try making the encounter challenging, but do not counter the character. He mad a gunslinger to use the class' abilities, having the GM specifically counter your character can be very frustrating.
On te other hand, if the BBEG has fought the PCs before, and the gunslinger proved to be a legitimate threat, then it's natural that the villain'd find ways to protect himself.
But simply moving 30ft away (or 20ft, in case of pistols) could do the trick. If the BBEG is a melee character, try giving him a mount and Ride by Attack. If he's a caster, he has little reason to be close to the PCs anyway.
| Abyssian |
Ooh, yeah! Terrain! With giant form I, he's got sick reach so it doesn't even have to be that closed. Remember that he has a 40' (perfect) fly speed, so you should be able to force GS to move and attack instead of getting a full attack (lethal). Pyrotechnics is an at will ability for ole Toasty, and I assume there are fires burning all over the place, so he can cover GS in smoke or firework him (will save!) blind.
| Rageling |
Minions that can close the gap. Even if they're little piddly guys that don't pose a critical issue to the Gunslinger, they can still run interference by standing between the bullet and the target.
Though... I'm assuming they've got the feats to negate that, and to avoid AoOs from firing while threatened. Hmm.
Does this big baddie have a series of established henchmen, or are you free to drop in a few wild-card cohorts? If that's the case, I think I can help you out with that.
I've got more, but I'm about to head out to a graduation dinner: I'll think it over there~
| Umbranus |
What about staying further than 30ft away from him? This way he'll have to hit normal AC and have a -2 penaly to attack due to range increment.
That's what I'd do, too.
And if staying away yourself is for some reasom not working lay down some area effect in the area the GS is shooting from, so he can:- keep firing and be affected by the area effect
- exit the aoe near the boss, so you can attack him in melee
- exit the aoe further away, problem solved, as he now has to hit regular AC.
As it seems to be the finale fight in your campaign I don't have to add that you shouldn't do that too often.
| Astral Wanderer |
Easy fix to give a little protection to the BBEG from anyone: an item that, when the wearer/owner is hit for the first time AND he wants to (if he is aware of the attack), immediately activates a Stoneskin effect (starting to protect from the attack that triggered it) OR a Cure Moderate Wounds (this effect also applies before the damage from the attack is applied). And the item has how many charges you need.
So, say a PC hits with three attacks on his first turn: the first one will trigger Stonesin (which will reduce all three of them, and subsequent ones), while the second and third will trigger the healing, if the BBEG wants to. Charges will run out quickly, maybe, but the more you give (hopefully a reasonable amount), the longer he'll stand.
| Paraxis |
Easy fix to give a little protection to the BBEG from anyone: an item that, when the wearer/owner is hit for the first time AND he wants to (if he is aware of the attack), immediately activates a Stoneskin effect (starting to protect from the attack that triggered it) OR a Cure Moderate Wounds (this effect also applies before the damage from the attack is applied). And the item has how many charges you need.
So, say a PC hits with three attacks on his first turn: the first one will trigger Stonesin (which will reduce all three of them, and subsequent ones), while the second and third will trigger the healing, if the BBEG wants to. Charges will run out quickly, maybe, but the more you give (hopefully a reasonable amount), the longer he'll stand.
That is cool and all but you are opening a big can of worms in my opinion.
Any item like that the players will want, so taking it after the fight, or asking to craft more later. Remember just DM fiating in extra hit points and stoneskin spells is not cool. Giving the BBEG just extra hit points, or DR/- with no in game reason is the same as lying about dice rolls, it is cheating. So yeah a cool item that cast contingent spells is nice for him this fight just might be too nice for the PC's after the fight.| BigNorseWolf |
False life
Windwall
Use the gunslingers friends as cover: precise shot negates the -4 for firing into melee but not the +4 cover bonus for the dwarfs huge keister being a bullet sponge (he might have the improved precise shot though)
Stoneskin
Attack from more than one range increment away.
Mirror image
Blurr/displacement
Invisibility: if you can't see it you can't shoot it.
Sunder/disarm the gun
Burning Disarm spell
| PSY850 |
the same things you would do to hinder any other ranged combatant with a few things added in because of the gunpowder. windwall or fickle winds if the bbeg is also a ranged type.
I'd personally be ok with the BBEG searching out another of the super rare gunslingers in your setting to help figure out ways of protecting himself and also to face off against your player. Remember it's not your personal feelings about gunslingers you have to worry about, it's the bbeg's. If you see somebody whoop your lackeys often enough with somehting you dont understand, your gonna find an outside consultant to try and figure things out.
Asta
PSY
| Astral Wanderer |
That is cool and all but you are opening a big can of worms in my opinion.
Any item like that the players will want, so taking it after the fight, or asking to craft more later. Remember just DM fiating in extra hit points and stoneskin spells is not cool. Giving the BBEG just extra hit points, or DR/- with no in game reason is the same as lying about dice rolls, it is cheating. So yeah a cool item that cast contingent spells is nice for him this fight just might be too nice for the PC's after the fight.
If they loot it from the corpse of the BBEG, let them be. How many charges will it have left? PCs will use it a little, but once charges are gone, the item is gone.
As for crafting it, even less trouble. It'll cost like any other item of an equal level of power. Or, in other words, a lot.
Maybe the BBEG himself looted it from someone or somewhere else, and maybe the item is a lesser artifact (but that would go too far, I think).
| Abyssian |
Efreeti knows the party. Does the party know that BBEG is Efreeti? Who has true seeing? GS? Wizard? Whole party? Does Efreeti know that? If so, he won't bother with invisibility, he'll count on wall of fire to block LOS. Actually, that's probably what he'd do, anyway. Remember that the blindness from pyrotechnics is a will save, so GS may succumb. Depending if you consider SLAs "special attacks," swap the deceitful feat for Ability Focus: Pyrotechnics to increase the DC to 16 (it's at-will, too, so over and over and over).
First round: quickened scorching ray at wizard, wall of fire, fly 40' UP.
Second round: pyrotechnics (fireworks option), quickened scorching ray at wizard unless he didn't feel it the first time (target someone else or change size on self to enlarge)
Third round: quickened scorching ray, giant form I to get regeneration 5 (oh, and keep fire invulnerability).
Fourth round: CHARGE! especially if wizard is within Efreeti's reach of GS (keep killing wizard, AoO GS as needed)
possibly swap the order of change size and giant form I. Since he's got fighter levels, give him a tower shield and whatever 1-handed weapon you want to give him instead of the falchion so he can have total cover while flying. Besides the wizard, can the party fly?
| blue_the_wolf |
does the BBEG know about the party?
If so it should be no problem what so ever to have henchmen with spells, skills, or other abilities to minimize the effect of the gunslinger.
spells like invisibility, blindness, windwall and even burning dissarm are great ways of slowing a gunslinger.
getting up close and using grapple, kill kill is also a tactic.
and remember... your BBEG should never be a solo encounter for a fresh party. the BBEG should always have minions and come after some form of winnowing, consider this winnowing as a way to limit the slinger without making him feel totally jumped on
| Rageling |
@ Umbranus / Lemmy: Staying 30ft away from Gunslinger is actually what you don't want to do. The Deadeye lets you make the attacks as Touch Attacks beyond the weapon's range increment. They don't need to tag his actual AC unless he's within the firearms's base range.
"Deadeye (Ex): At 1st level, the gunslinger can resolve an attack against touch AC instead of normal AC when firing beyond her firearm’s first range increment..."
@ BigNorseWolf: That's what I was thinking too, but with a CR 17 BBEG, chances are the Gunslinger has Improved Precise as you said (BAB 11 to take). I was thinking instead that a full-class Gunslinger won't have "Point Blank Master" because it requires Weapon Specialization, meaning if you swarm the 'slinger with little guys and they chose to focus on the BBEG, that would be a lot of Attacks of Opportunity - and even the lucky can only avoid probability so long.
If the villain knows the party well, what about general or mass debilitation? Minions or Henchmen that can bestow minor conditions that stack up, such as the Bane spell or the Sickened condition? With knowledge of what the Gunslinger can do, you could add in a Cavalier cohort that could further decrease the Gunslinger's chance to hit the Efreeti - this in general could/would force the party to deal with a smaller threat while the bigger threat was free to act, as they try and bring down the Cavalier. Summoned creatures and/or minion swarms could yield a similar effect. Salamanders (Nobles maybe) seem oddly fitting to this purpose, though many options exist.
Also the Efreeti is a fighter... Noticing how easily the Gunslinger tags and trashes their target, chances are they'll want to engage directly, especially if any ability to teleport exists (standard to use or swing and move to keep in range). If he can get up in the Gunslinger's face, that would be a serious problem for them. This could seem like a hose to the 'slinger touch-shot specifically, but it could also force the team to run interference - combat maneuvers and human walls to give the marksman their range.
For his backup, with an assumed Leadership score of 25, I'd personally consider:
* 1x (Cohort Lv 17) Summoner (Broodmaster variant for harassing, aids in counterspelling)
* 2x+ Genie-kin and/or Salamander types, varied classes, possibly a Magus or two to create abnormal combat situations.
(Side note: A Magus Cohort with Dimensional Assault tree could be a serious headache for a Gunslinger)
I understand the difficulty - It's hard for the players to appreciate a truly difficult fight when four of them are trashed, while the ranged guy's like: "What's your problem? I'm fine!" It's even harder to make all the players feel equally pressured without making someone feel entirely hosed. I run into this from time to time, and the players usually feel they need to solo their opposite, not realizing how mirror-matches usually end up.
In summary, the best I can think of would be minions, + the Wall of Fire suggestion made by others for obscuring.
Teleport to close distance, standard swings to save move to keep up. Little critters won't pose a vital threat to the Gunslinger, though with enough attacks of opportunity from a lack of Point-Blank Master, probability alone should make them feel the pressure. This will either force the party to help clear off the Gunslinger if they want their full support, or force the Gunslinger themselves to get rid of the pests at their feet - effectively buying the BBEG some fire-free time. I stand by the use of Summoner, Magus and/or Cavalier as support henchmen to toss out blanket debilitation and interference. I like the idea of making the players feel like they had to wade through an insurmountable river of filth and fire, before finally claiming their Nemesis' head.