Creatures cannot be detected by detect magic.
Even a creature that is made of nothing but magic cannot be detected by detect magic.
They are not magic items. You cannot detect them with detect magic.
As a GM, you might want to houserule this. But by default, they have no magic aura.
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Golems are a specific class of construct. As the OP stated they're infused with the an elemental. Think of it as a Golem being a subclass of constructs.
Golems are magically created automatons of great power. They stand apart from other constructs in the nature of their animating force—golems are granted their magical life via an elemental spirit, typically that of an earth elemental. The process of creating a golem binds the spirit to the artificial body, merging it with this specially prepared vessel and subjecting it to the will of the golem's creator.
Being mindless, golems do nothing without orders from their creators. They follow instructions explicitly and are incapable of complex strategy or tactics. A golem's creator can command it if the golem is within 60 feet and can see and hear its creator. If uncommanded, a golem usually follows its last instruction to the best of its ability, though if attacked it returns the attack. The creator can give the golem a simple command to govern its actions in his absence, or can order the golem to obey the commands of another, but the golem's creator can always resume control by commanding the golem to obey him alone.
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Okay ...I'm confused here.
Why on earth is it being asserted that creatures cannot be detected? The spell description specifically calls out creatures in the text, and delineates when and how they can be detected.
Detect Magic
Read the spell. Read it again.
It detects auras on creatures, as generated by active or lingering spells or magic items.
If a creature has none of these things, it cannot be detected by detect magic.
Constructs have auras detectable by detect magic under the following conditions:
1. The construct has an active spell affecting it.
2. The construct had a spell affecting it recently.
3. The construct is carrying a magic item.
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Okay, that's all well and good, And the same can be said of items.
If it doesn't have a spell affecting it, had one affecting it recently, or carrying a magic item.
That can be said of anything. A flag, a crossbow, or a humanoid.
But to assert that the spell cannot detect creatures, when the spell specifically calls out the conditions when a creature can be detected is not only misleading, but terribly inaccurate.
I DID read the spell. I read it before I linked it. I read it before I even responded.
YOU read it. Because it seems to me, you're either trying to clean up Smething that you said which was completely wrong, or you're treading on the side of being a jerk, and trying to be overly pedantic about what the spell description says.
It never detects a creature. It detects an aura on a creature, for whatever reason. The spell will give you information about the aura, but won't say whether it's on a creature or not.
You detect a conjuration aura through a wooden wall. You can't see what is causing it. It could be the lingering remnants of a conjuration spell that has passed, a currently active spell, a conjuration-based magic item on the ground, a conjuration-based magic item on a creature, or a summoned creature. The only distinction you might be able to make is if the aura detected is 'dim'. That can only be a lingering aura as the weakest active aura is 'faint'.
This is the rules forum. I'm saying exactly what the spell does, no more, no less. If you don't like that, you're free to houserule it. Many do. I have no complaints about that so long as you're honest about it.
And no, golems do not have magical auras of their own.
Edit: Personally, I think constructs should detect as magic items. It's a reasonable houserule.
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Umbral Reaver ... The assertion that you're reading of the rules absolutely right smacks not only of hubris, but also clearly indicates that you don't have a very solid grasp of the rules in question
The line of logic your following is horribly false.
The same can be said of anything. The spell doesn't detect an item, it detects the aura on an item. It doesn't detect a spell in effect, or recently cast, it detects the aura given off by the spell.
This *is* the rules forum ... That's about the only fact that you got right.
You're not saying at all what the spell does, you're making a pedantic point based on your interpretation of what you want the spell to do, or in this case what you want the spell to not do. Anything that emits an aura can be detected, creature, item, or otherwise.
If something is created by an Item Creation feat, it has a discernible aura.
If something is animated by a spell effect, it too emits an aura.
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To further help understand this (as Umbral Reaver is correct), consider these two sections of the spell:
Aura Strength: An aura's power depends on a spell's functioning spell level or an item's caster level; see the accompanying table. If an aura falls into more than one category, detect magic indicates the stronger of the two.
Lingering Aura: A magical aura lingers after its original source dissipates (in the case of a spell) or is destroyed (in the case of a magic item). If detect magic is cast and directed at such a location, the spell indicates an aura strength of dim (even weaker than a faint aura).
Both reference spell level and caster level for using the game mechanics. Constructs, undead (from another thread earlier today) do not have spell or caster levels associated with them as do magic items. The spell doesn't even detect outsiders or elementals, only a conjuration spell that summoned them.
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Unless a monster specifically has a special quality that says otherwise (and I'm pretty sure there are none that do), you can't detect ANY monster (including magical beasts, undead, or constructs) with detect magic. Creatures don't have magic auras. Spell effects on them do, though.
I'm curious what witty comeback is going to happen now ;-)
Golems do not have a magical aura and neither do undead even though both can be created by magic. They are creatures not magic items. Detect magic never says that it detects creatures. It says it can detect the aura that a creature may have. There are ways for creatures to have aura, but it is not because it is creature X unless specifically noted.
In short a creature can bear an aura due to a spell that was cast on it, a magic item in its possesion, and so on, but they do not have a constant aura that they generate unless they have an always one spell-like ability or a permanent spell, but that goes back to having a spell cast on them.
The rules say don't say anything created by a magic item has an aura either. They say "items" created by the magic item creation feat has an aura.
Magic Items and Detect Magic
When detect magic identifies a magic item's school of magic, this information refers to the school of the spell placed within the potion, scroll, or wand, or the prerequisite given for the item. The description of each item provides its aura strength and the school to which it belongs.
Golems and constructs are not listed as items which would include; Armor and shields, Weapons, Potions, Rings, Rods, Scrolls, Staves, Wands, and Wondrous items.
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Some constructs will show up (objects animated via the spell for the duration of the spell).
but detect magic even calls out outsiders and elementals (both likely to be more "magical" than a construct). with the following line:
Outsiders and elementals are not magical in themselves, but if they are summoned, the conjuration spell registers
Concerro, Golums are crafted using the Craft Construt feat which is called out as a magic item creation feat:
Craft Construct (Item Creation)
You can create construct creatures like golems.
Prerequisites: Caster level 5th, Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Craft Wondrous Item.
Benefit: You can create any construct whose prerequisites you meet. The act of animating a construct takes one day for each 1,000 gp in its market price. To create a construct, you must use up raw materials costing half of its base price, plus the full cost of the basic body created for the construct. Each construct has a special section that summarizes its costs and other prerequisites. A newly created construct has average hit points for its Hit Dice.
It is a magic item creation feat, but the end result is not an item. Therefore they don't have an aura. The RAW specifically says items have auras, not anything made via an item creation feat.
Animated objects would have an aura because of the spell use to create them.
Summoning something will cause an aura due to the spell, not the creature itself. If it was the creature itself then they would have an aura even when they were not summoned.
The rules have not changed since 3.5, and if the wording is the same the meaning is the same.
Spotting a Construct: Most constructs resemble inanimate objects when they aren't moving themselves. A simple animated object is indistinguishable from a regular object until it moves (though a detect magic spell will reveal the magic aura from the spell that animates the object). When an animated object moves or acts, it's fairly obvious the object isn't quite normal. A character can make a DC 26 Spellcraft check to note the spell in play.
Permanent constructs, such as golems, usually offer a few clues that can alert an observant adventurer to its true nature, even when at rest. Such clues can include articulated joints, gemlike eyes, and weaponry and bits of equipment that aren't part of the creature's main structure. A DC 20 Spellcraft or Knowledge (arcana) check ought to be sufficient to reveal these clues.
According to the quote an animated object would have an aura due to the spell that powers it, which is what I said in my previous post.
Here’s the important distinction: Golems are not magic items,....
Some constructs will show up (objects animated via the spell for the duration of the spell).
but detect magic even calls out outsiders and elementals (both likely to be more "magical" than a construct). with the following line:
Outsiders and elementals are not magical in themselves, but if they are summoned, the conjuration spell registers
A Construct animated via Animate Object does not detect as magic. The spell Animate Object, however, has an aura and will detect.
Outsiders do not detect, however if they are summoned, the summon spell does detect. If the Outsider is Gated in, there's no aura on the Outsider and it does not detect.
Now, would the outsider have a lingering aura of the gate spell or would that aura be on the location where gate was cast? :P
It would be Where the spell was cast. Called creatures are not said to have auras unlike summoned creatures.
RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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Constructs, undead (from another thread earlier today) do not have spell or caster levels associated with them as do magic items.
I just want to point out that most constructs do in fact have caster levels in the construction section of their bestiary entry. However, I agree that once they are created they no longer have a magical aura, just like undead.
I'm curious as to why it's important to use detect magic to find constructs when in many cases a Knowledge(arcana) check will do the job?
With intelligent magic items that get up, walk around, and talk, at what point is it a golem/construct?When it has a mobilty of its own. Then the item gets a STR and DEX score, and becomes a construct. Or rather, is treated as a construct.
When is the reverse true?
I'm not sure it ever is, game-mechanically.
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for Golems:
Aura Strength: An aura's power depends on a spell's functioning spell level or an item's caster level; see the accompanying table. If an aura falls into more than one category, detect magic indicates the stronger of the two.
Golems have a CL listed that is separate from the requirements to construct.
Clay GolemCL 11th; Price 41,500 gp
Construction
Requirements Craft Construct, animate objects, bless, commune, prayer, resurrection, creator must be caster level 11th; Skill Craft (sculptures) or Craft (pottery) DC 16; Cost 21,500 gp
The first part before "Construction" lists out just like any other magic item.
This implies that they act as a magic item and follow those rules for magic items. This means that you should be able to cast Dispel magic on them (since Dispel magic does not have a SR check). This also means that they should be detectable. Otherwise, why have the CL listed outside of the requirements to craft?
The first part before "Construction" lists out just like any other magic item.
This implies that they act as a magic item and follow those rules for magic items. This means that you should be able to cast Dispel magic on them (since Dispel magic does not have a SR check). This also means that they should be detectable. Otherwise, why have the CL listed outside of the requirements to craft?
No, actually a magic item, say a ring of blinking, lists out like so:
Ring of Blinking
Aura moderate transmutation; CL 7th
Slot ring; Price 27,000 gp; Weight —
Description
On command, this ring makes the wearer blink, as the blink spell.
The magic item specifically notes it's aura strength and school. What strength and school is listed for a wood golem? None, because it's not needed. GM's are of course free to house-rule that constructs can be detected however they want (in that case, the GM would need to actually assign an aura strength and school). But for over a decade, by RAW, detect magic has not detected constructs, or any other creature, unless other special things are going on with that creature. This wasn't a Pathfinder decision, it's part of d20. And from my previous D&D experience (going back to 1984) I don't recall anyone in any edition ever supporting the use of detect magic to find constructs like golems or living statues.
I'm curious what witty comeback is going to happen now ;-)Unless a monster specifically has a special quality that says otherwise (and I'm pretty sure there are none that do), you can't detect ANY monster (including magical beasts, undead, or constructs) with detect magic. Creatures don't have magic auras. Spell effects on them do, though.
James Jacobs isn't the rules guy.
Doesn't change RAW.
Doesn't change RAW.I'm curious what witty comeback is going to happen now ;-)Unless a monster specifically has a special quality that says otherwise (and I'm pretty sure there are none that do), you can't detect ANY monster (including magical beasts, undead, or constructs) with detect magic. Creatures don't have magic auras. Spell effects on them do, though.James Jacobs isn't the rules guy.
*sigh*
I know how you feel.
Perhaps this can help to clarify: Dispel Magic can dispel animated objects, "unsummon" summoned monsters, and at least temporarily disrupt permanent magical items (such as Bags of Holding). All of these examples also register with Detect Magic.
Now, that being said, undead, outsiders, golems, and most other constructs are not subject to Dispel Magic (i.e. it doesn't "undo" them) although it may dispel effects cat on them or items they carry. Am I right?
Without a higher ruling, I would use the logic that Detect Magic can detect what Dispel Magic can dispel.
for Golems:
Aura Strength: An aura's power depends on a spell's functioning spell level or an item's caster level; see the accompanying table. If an aura falls into more than one category, detect magic indicates the stronger of the two.Golems have a CL listed that is separate from the requirements to construct.
Clay GolemCL 11th; Price 41,500 gp
Construction
Requirements Craft Construct, animate objects, bless, commune, prayer, resurrection, creator must be caster level 11th; Skill Craft (sculptures) or Craft (pottery) DC 16; Cost 21,500 gp
The first part before "Construction" lists out just like any other magic item.
This implies that they act as a magic item and follow those rules for magic items. This means that you should be able to cast Dispel magic on them (since Dispel magic does not have a SR check). This also means that they should be detectable. Otherwise, why have the CL listed outside of the requirements to craft?
If that were true then antimagic field would shut them down.
So for balance reasons Golems do not detect, and a justification was etched out of "detect magic".
I wish the designers were a little more open about their decision making processes, because shoehorning in these exceptions for balance that don't fit the fluff is what leads to these arguments.
So from what I have gathered Golems don't show because James Jacobs didn't want a cantrip based radar giving away what's behind that door.
James does not make the mechanical rules, and this is also how it was in 3.5, which is where PF came from.
I'm curious what witty comeback is going to happen now ;-)Unless a monster specifically has a special quality that says otherwise (and I'm pretty sure there are none that do), you can't detect ANY monster (including magical beasts, undead, or constructs) with detect magic. Creatures don't have magic auras. Spell effects on them do, though.
James Jacobs isn't the rules guy.
Wait! I get it now!
I feel dumb. :(
The comeback was too witty...