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I have a lot of notes that I plan to post about my RotRL campaign, which nears its end. But among those I need to mention this in particular from tonight's experience:
The Dwarf Cleric of Sarenrae cast life bubble to guard against altitude sickness and the cold. And as best as I could tell, it negates 85% of the drama in the ascent into the Kodar Mtns. Maybe more.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/l/life-bubble
I let them get away with it, because I refuse to be 'that guy' and could find no further rationalization. But they'll probably walk away from the Wendigo without further incident after this. "Oh no. A blizzard. Who cares, as long as we keep navigating north and follow the river, it doesn't matter." Since they're 12th level, it lasts 24 hours in a casting.
Yews, but that 24 hours has to be divided up among the recipients; a 4-person party will each get only 6 hours protection, which will consume four of the cleric's 5th L spell slots each day unless they have some other means of protection (such as spending nights in a rope trick spell.)
I have a similar problem in my Jade regent Campaign where:
Yews, but that 24 hours has to be divided up among the recipients; a 4-person party will each get only 6 hours protection, which will consume four of the cleric's 5th L spell slots each day unless they have some other means of protection (such as spending nights in a rope trick spell.)
Yeah, you pretty much have to cast it once per person to get 24 hour protection, and that'll eat up a LOT of spell slots.
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Sorry but, as a player who played through this section, I'm afraid I don't see the problem. By this point of the campaign the party is at least 12th level, has confronted giant armies, countless undead abominations, infernal beings from the nether realms and even traveled across planes. I'd feel pretty silly if I were on my way to a legendary lost city to confront the ancient big bad and still had to concern myself overmuch with trivial environmental issues like cold and thin air. Your cleric character has proven her faith and virtue in titanic struggles and has been rewarded with powerful spells from her patron. It makes sense that Sarenrae will grant her servant the ability to protect herself and her valiant companions so that they might achieve their lofty goal. As long as the players have the foresight and good sense to prepare the necessary magics and the willingness to dedicate their resources to using them as needed then that's one less thing with which they and you need concern yourselves. Accept it happily and move on to the action. :)
Sorry but, as a player who played through this section, I'm afraid I don't see the problem. By this point of the campaign the party is at least 12th level, has confronted giant armies, countless undead abominations, infernal beings from the nether realms and even traveled across planes. I'd feel pretty silly if I were on my way to a legendary lost city to confront the ancient big bad and still had to concern myself overmuch with trivial environmental issues like cold and thin air. Your cleric character has proven her faith and virtue in titanic struggles and has been rewarded with powerful spells from her patron. It makes sense that Sarenrae will grant her servant the ability to protect herself and her valiant companions so that they might achieve their lofty goal. As long as the players have the foresight and good sense to prepare the necessary magics and the willingness to dedicate their resources to using them as needed then that's one less thing with which they and you need concern yourselves. Accept it happily and move on to the action. :)
Also, if said cleric dies her/his loss will sting all the more in death zone altitudes.
Also, if said cleric dies her/his loss will sting all the more in death zone altitudes.
True. But only if the rest of the party doesn't make it back out before their active spells run out. Suddenly, they're on a clock!
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There is truth to what you say. However, the problem is contained exactly in your response: it renders the conquest of a mountain taller than Everest -trivial-. Which steals some of the drama.
I am not begrudging my players. I am merely sad that a series of interesting challenges has been cut through with the same decisive anticlimax as Alexander at the Gordian Knot.
When we reconvene, I will be using the comparison to Alexander to bolster the awesomeness of the spell, cement the meaning of the spell, and make the players feel special. Because if I don't, they'll reach the top and say "well ... that was easy."
That sounds to me like the right approach. Being who they are, your PCs have earned their ability to overcome petty mortal concerns such as darkness, bad weather, and gravity. They should enjoy being able to handle otherwise daunting challenges with aplomb. That doesn't have to take away from the grandeur, majesty and sheer awesomeness of Mhar Massif. It'll be the scene of the party's greatest victory or their worst defeat; play it up for all it's worth with vivd and colorful descriptions.
Sorry but, as a player who played through this section, I'm afraid I don't see the problem. By this point of the campaign the party is at least 12th level, has confronted giant armies, countless undead abominations, infernal beings from the nether realms and even traveled across planes. I'd feel pretty silly if I were on my way to a legendary lost city to confront the ancient big bad and still had to concern myself overmuch with trivial environmental issues like cold and thin air. Your cleric character has proven her faith and virtue in titanic struggles and has been rewarded with powerful spells from her patron. It makes sense that Sarenrae will grant her servant the ability to protect herself and her valiant companions so that they might achieve their lofty goal. As long as the players have the foresight and good sense to prepare the necessary magics and the willingness to dedicate their resources to using them as needed then that's one less thing with which they and you need concern yourselves. Accept it happily and move on to the action. :)
Well said Ambrus. The environmental effects, which are a significant part of the stories and movies which inspire us as players, usually become insignificant very early in PC careers. For me and apparently Kegluneq, this can be a bit of a let down.
I have the same issue with Comprehend Languages.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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One option is to 'tax' the spell. In that I mean it works normally (negates the effects) but they feel the fluff.
let the 'fringe' of the life bubble become somewhat visible with the environmental effects. Talk about feeling the pressure the cold, let the magic pulse and flare. Don't nerf the spell, but point out how the spell is really being stressed. If it drives home what happens if the spell does go 'pop', even if it doesn't. Also tell them you got the Anniversary PDF and it has some ideas for dealing with the spell. :-)
Eberron similar experience.
As a player the difficulty of the atmospheric effects actually annoyed me, it stopped a large part of a session solving an issue I felt should be trivial. One of the Problems end and its derivitives is the pre existing spells are for combat or challenge environment.
So it creates the weird situation of being able to buy boots which let me walk around naked save for the boots at temperatures where my spit freezes before it hits the ground. But low oxygen becomes a big deal?
So an environment that For economic purposes should have been one of the first problems solved by magic suddenly becomes a big deal.
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Some people like white room battles. Others like complications. Why put the battle on a mountain if the mountain is to become irrelevant? If I wanted whole stretches of the game hand-waved away by feat/spell taxes, I would return to playing Exalted 2nd Edition. My players tend to like complications because white room battle's they've reduced to pure mathematics. So I've got my work cut out for me, and have to come back next time prepared to make climbing Mhar Massif feel like an accomplishment.
Regardless, this is something that GMs ought to keep in mind. If your players hate this stuff, make it easier for them to get Elixers of the Peaks and spells like Life Bubble. If your players are going to hear the wah-wah of a trombone when they climb/teleport or whatever to the top of the world without issue, than take care to adjust your narration or include some extra challenges.
*casts thread necromancy*
Life Bubble annoyed me constantly as a GM too. As a spell, it protected too many people against too much (too much pressure, too little pressure/vacuum, low oxygen/bad atmosphere, actual gas attacks and anything else which depended upon breathing), and was extendable to boot.
While I won't take it away from either of my two RotR groups mid-AP (so as to avoid being "that guy/gal" GM), I will be nerfing it for any following games/campaigns.
The nerf will be that it can't protect against actual attacks (as opposed to "natural conditions for where you are right now").
I might also reduce the spell to "one target only", instead of being divisible between many targets.
I will also compare it to any "survive in space" type spells that might be in Distant Worlds and related sourcebooks, and see if I can use them as benchmarks for the changes.
Part of my decision is based on the fact that one of the RotR groups will be tackling the Jade Regent AP next.
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Dispel Magic is a thing. They'll look a bit silly if they're suddenly freezing to death and gasping for air while trying to thump a lamia.
But really, this is just another episode of Magic Trumps Mundane. Endure Elements does this at 1st level, so it's nothing new (and that goes on a 750gp wand just fine).
Seriously. Dispel Magic is truly detrimental. It can take out the entire group if they were foolish enough to have everyone under one casting. It can take out the fighter of the group quickly if one of them is targeted. And it ends up taking MORE spell slots because you need to have spares on hand in case of a spell going down.
In fact, you need to have a secondary caster or someone able to cast spells from scrolls - and more, someone who can EFFECTIVELY cast those spells because the spell failure chance for casting from scrolls is a 24 for the Druidic version, or 25 for the Cleric or Wizard version. So your Rogue-type will have to spend Skill Points for UMD which could be better used elsewhere in the off chance of needing to cast a high-level scroll.
Also, do note the first line of the spell: You surround the touched creatures with a constant and moveable 1-inch shell of tolerable living conditions. So describe the air as thin and wispy. Mention that the PCs have a dull ache behind their skulls - the very initial stages of altitude illness. It has no in-game effect. It doesn't cause fatigue. But the players should be gasping for breath from time to time.
This will make the Elixir of the Peaks that much better as that gives them eight hours of being acclimated to those conditions. No more headache. Travel is much easier. They will cherish those elixirs and likely preserve them for the final climb to the summit to face down Karzoug (even with Life Bubble).
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I honestly had the exact opposite experience as a DM re: Life Bubble. My hunter picked it up as his first 3rd level spell back in Magnimar, got access to a lesser rod of extend spell as soon as possible, and has essentially kept the party cloaked in it ever since. Because the party is so used to using it, they've picked up magic items and spells to combo with it, like plague storm and fogcutter lenses.
life bubble trivializes all sorts of survival scenarios and hinders certain traps, but as stated above, dispel magic and greater dispel magic will strip it away, which can be very bad for a party that has grown used to relying on it. For parties that cast it every day (as they likely will in Xin-Shalast), this taxes their resources for something other than combat (which is good - how much combat would you need to do to to go through a 16th level party's resources?) and reinforces the significance of support casters.
Life bubble has an unusually big spotlight in my campaign, not only because the party's been using it daily for 2 years of play, but because sihedron rings don't grant Deflection and Resistance bonuses in my (ABP) campaign, but grant permanent life bubble. And honestly, things that let my party focus on the fun bits (like not slowly asphyxiating on the way to the final dungeon) seem like good investments on their and my parts.