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So, my players finished part 1 of book 2 and are out on the Fevered Sea, looking for plunder and additional crew members. Being new to all this pirate business, they decided to go with what they knew... and have since press-ganged some 30+ additional persons into service, including all of the able-bodied males (alongside a few women and children) of a Mwangi village into service.
Naturally, I assumed they'd quickly be going into the "slave trade" and was a little surprised when they informed me otherwise, as such work "would be evil" and they're "not those sorts of pirates." Besides being speechless, I sort of wanted to point out they were, by press-ganging others into service, already in that business, as most people view forcing another sentient being into any sort of indentured servitude an evil act. As does kicking people off of boats into shark infested waters (whether to prove a point or gain infamy) or slaughtering people just to take their stuff.
Now mind you, I don't have a problem with my players going the "evil route" for this AP. But I'm at a loss, as they're almost universally (well, one of the five isn't) working to stay neutral and actively arguing that all of the ruthless stuff they're doing isn't actually evil...
..it's just part of being a pirate (and clearly CN).
So, here's my question; How are you treating piracy in the AP? What do you consider evil acts and what do you consider to be safer, morally "grey" areas?
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My player's considered selling the people they came across for slave labour, but one out of the four players is CG, so he flatly refused to be part of anything like that.
However, everyone else is CN, and they way I treat evil acts is anything that is pretty damn evil, like slaughtering people for no reason. However if there is profit in it, then I just put it in the "grey" area
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I was leaning toward this (at least for this campaign):
Neutral acts would include - Your standard piracy. Robbing, pillaging, stealing, and even killing defenders in open combat, but without slaughter needlessly. Once weapons are dropped and surrender is offered, additional acts of violence would be evil acts. Press-ganging other pirates, or even other sailors, would be acceptable.
Evil acts would include - press-ganging innocents (women, children), slavery or human trafficking, rape and sexual assault, ritual sacrifice, 'chumming innocents' (cutting prisoners and tossing them overboard to attract sharks), killing simply to prove superiority, and so on.
I don't really have a problem with the first mate beating prisoners into submission or otherwise forcing the new crew to comply, but I do think starving men simply to break them is probably evil.
Luckily for the ship's clerics, their deities aren't overly concerned with what they do: Besmara is pretty fickle in her attention and Gozreh could care less.
I was leaning toward this (at least for this campaign):
Neutral acts would include - Your standard piracy. Robbing, pillaging, stealing, and even killing defenders in open combat, but without slaughter needlessly. Once weapons are dropped and surrender is offered, additional acts of violence would be evil acts. Press-ganging other pirates, or even other sailors, would be acceptable.
Evil acts would include - press-ganging innocents (women, children), slavery or human trafficking, rape and sexual assault, ritual sacrifice, 'chumming innocents' (cutting prisoners and tossing them overboard to attract sharks), killing simply to prove superiority, and so on.
I don't really have a problem with the first mate beating prisoners into submission or otherwise forcing the new crew to comply, but I do think starving men simply to break them is probably evil.
I can't speak for anyone else, but that sounds like a pretty solid standard to me.
I can't speak for anyone else, but that sounds like a pretty solid standard to me.I was leaning toward this (at least for this campaign):
Neutral acts would include - Your standard piracy. Robbing, pillaging, stealing, and even killing defenders in open combat, but without slaughter needlessly. Once weapons are dropped and surrender is offered, additional acts of violence would be evil acts. Press-ganging other pirates, or even other sailors, would be acceptable.
Evil acts would include - press-ganging innocents (women, children), slavery or human trafficking, rape and sexual assault, ritual sacrifice, 'chumming innocents' (cutting prisoners and tossing them overboard to attract sharks), killing simply to prove superiority, and so on.
I don't really have a problem with the first mate beating prisoners into submission or otherwise forcing the new crew to comply, but I do think starving men simply to break them is probably evil.
Small quibble, change the definition of innocents from women and children to children and non-combatants. Male or female should not make a difference.
For the group of mine : they consider themselves "at war" with Cheliax and Rahadoum. They also have a deep dislike for the Aspis Consortium, after some incidents in Bloodcove. Of course, the groups' background was setup that way.
They try to avoid (unnecessary) bloodshed and have, with a more pronounced tendency through AP-2, left the opposition sailing off after plundering them, unless they flew the Chelian or Rahadoumi flag. Healing badly wounded opposition in the bargain. Chelians usually get dropped off on small inaccessible islands, with some tools. The island also has Zombies-natives... Rahadoumi... drop of at the coast, may the gods' help them.
Since they are sailing a rather compact vessel (the Chelian Cutter "Famished Main") , they as a group are very picky about which merchants they rob, and will inspect the ship if it claims neutrality, but will rather trade with Varisians or Andorans than plunder them. So they pick the high value stuff, but leave the merchants some chance to still turn a profit from their journey.
Overall, they try to stick to the privateer's code from Pirates of the Inner Sea, but they have attacked other pirates, especially those with a certain notority to increase their Infamy
No chopping up (unreasoned violence, talk to Lamashtu or demons), enslavement (talk to Asmodeus) or trading in the same. No feeding to sharks. Zombie Island is basically where they draw the line.
Rape and sexual assualt : you are kidding, right ?
They also adhere to the "rule of skirts". Basically : if it wears a skirt (or priestly robe, or one of office ) it is personally not to be attacked, molested, taken advantage of or dishonoured.... unless attacking them first which "waives" the rule, but allows "non-combatants" to stay out of a fight. Bit more complicated than that, but great fun.
in their terms : "dishonourably honourable"
I'm waiting until I have all 6 parts before I start running this but I do like this discussion. I really like the idea of running it via the "Runners' Code" from Shadowrun and will likely integrate that into my game.
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Rape and sexual assualt : you are kidding, right ?
Well, pirates have been known to raid, rape, and pillage. It's not a huge stretch.
Thankfully, my players are a little more mature than that (well, most of them).
But the undertone was somewhat present. Aretta (see AP1; Aretta Bansion (NE female human): a bad tempered ex-harlot with big ears; job: swab; initial attitude: hostile.) sort of set the mood for this line of questioning (one of the PCs asked why the rest of the crew called her "Ears.") The overtly quiet cabin-girl didn't help matters, either.
In either case, I decided to make write that in.
But the undertone was somewhat present. Aretta (see AP1; Aretta Bansion (NE female human): a bad tempered ex-harlot with big ears; job: swab; initial attitude: hostile.) sort of set the mood for this line of questioning (one of the PCs asked why the rest of the crew called her "Ears.") The overtly quiet cabin-girl didn't help matters, either.In either case, I decided to make write that in.
Never mind maturity. Both subjects are highly problematic if encountered passively, often with strong out-of-character reactions. There were some... OMG reactions to Caulky's situation yes. Easened up when it became clear that Harrigan and Peppery were an item. Also Caulky is in fact not a humanoid girl around here.
For players to actually participate in the mentioned crimes, as parts of playing "evil", I find that a surefire way to ruin the fun at the table.
Same goes for descriptive torture in the "Saw" vein.
A fun heroic adventure game should not go there. Unless one is explicitly playing a horror game like Cult
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For players to actually participate in the mentioned crimes, as parts of playing "evil", I find that a surefire way to ruin the fun at the table.
Same goes for descriptive torture in the "Saw" vein.
A fun heroic adventure game should not go there. Unless one is explicitly playing a horror game like Cult
Agreed.
I tend to run fantasy game from a more 14th-16th Century take on morality than a politically correct 20th Century take on morality.
Slavery, serfdom, a system of government's inability to allow most any upward mobility... all really the same to varying degrees, just by a different name. Neutral or evil? Who's to say. Suppose it depends on your sensibilities. All three have existed in pretty much all of human civilization, even the latter one is alive and well in most of the world today.