Wizard Spellbooks

[nosig]

Dragnmoon wrote:

nosig wrote:

And you have to decide to do this before the Chronicle is handed out.

A More accurate statement would be you would have to scribe it in your spellbook before the session is over, which can be after the chronicle has been handed out.

chronicles are handed out at the end of the session right? that's the defining moment... or am I missing something again? didn't we just do this in another post on spellbooks where I was corrected to my current way of doing this?

[WalterGM]

nosig wrote:

Dragnmoon wrote:

nosig wrote:

And you have to decide to do this before the Chronicle is handed out.

A More accurate statement would be you would have to scribe it in your spellbook before the session is over, which can be after the chronicle has been handed out.

chronicles are handed out at the end of the session right? that's the defining moment... or am I missing something again? didn't we just do this in another post on spellbooks where I was corrected to my current way of doing this?

I believe Dragnmoon is stating that the GM, not the action of handing sheets, defines the end of the session. I've handed out sheets as I was reading the wrap up and faction mission results -- it saves time and allows PCs to ask me any questions about any boons on their sheets.

[Dragnmoon]

Walter Sheppard wrote:

I believe Dragnmoon is stating that the GM, not the action of handing sheets, defines the end of the session.

Correct, the session is over when the GM stands up and leaves the table stating his mandatory exit statement "Screw you guys! I'm going home!"

That last statement is very important!

[nosig]

Dragnmoon wrote:

Walter Sheppard wrote:

I believe Dragnmoon is stating that the GM, not the action of handing sheets, defines the end of the session.

Correct, the session is over when the GM stands up and leaves the table stating his mandatory exit statement "Screw you guys! I'm going home!"

That last statement is very important!

this is harder for me, most of the time one of the players is my ride...

[sveden]

nosig wrote:

And you have to decide to do this before the Chronicle is handed out.

That's so completely arbitrary.

[kinevon]

Just gonna put some quotes in here, make sure I understand the sources.

CRB page 219 wrote:

[/i]Adding Spells to a Wizard’s Spellbook[/i]

Wizards can add new spells to their spellbooks through several methods. A wizard can only learn new spells that belong to the wizard spell lists.

Spells Gained at a New Level: Wizards perform a certain amount of spell research between adventures. Each time a character attains a new wizard level, he gains two spells of his choice to add to his spellbook. The two free spells must be of spell levels he can cast. If he has chosen to specialize in a school of magic, one of the two free spells must be from his specialty school.

Spells Copied from Another’s Spellbook or a Scroll:
A wizard can also add a spell to his book whenever he encounters one on a magic scroll or in another wizard’s spellbook. No matter what the spell’s source, the wizard must first decipher the magical writing (see Arcane Magical Writings). Next, he must spend 1 hour studying the spell. At the end of the hour, he must make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + spell’s level). A wizard who has specialized in a school of spells gains a +2 bonus on the Spellcraft check if the new spell is from his specialty school. If the check succeeds, the wizard understands the spell and can copy it into his spellbook (see Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook). The process leaves a spellbook that was copied from unharmed, but a spell successfully copied from a magic scroll disappears from the parchment.
If the check fails, the wizard cannot understand or copy the spell. He cannot attempt to learn or copy that spell again until one week has passed. If the spell was from a scroll, a failed Spellcraft check does not cause the spell to vanish.
In most cases, wizards charge a fee for the privilege of copying spells from their spellbooks. This fee is usually equal to half the cost to write the spell into a spellbook (see Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook). Rare and unique spells might cost significantly more.
Independent Research: Not allowed for PFS

PFS FAQ wrote:

How can wizards, witches, magi, and alchemists learn new spells or formulae?

Pages 219–220 in the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook discuss how to handle a wizard’s spellbook, but Pathfinder Society makes one adjustment to these rules: a wizard does not have to purchase a scroll found during the course of a scenario in order to copy that scroll into her spellbook. The wizard only needs to spend the time, succeed on the appropriate checks, and spend the amount of gold listed on the table on page 219 of the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook. Keep in mind that the process of copying a spell from a magic scroll into a wizard’s spellbook removes the spell from the copied scroll, turning it into a blank piece of normal parchment. The normal rules for finding items during the course of a scenario are that they can be used during the scenario but must be purchased after the scenario in order to be kept. This clarification for wizards and their spellbooks is the singular exception to the gear rules. An alchemist can likewise copy spells from scrolls found during a scenario into his formula book as detailed on page 28 of the Advanced Player's Guide. Similarly, a witch PC's familiar can learn spells from another witch's familiar or from scrolls found during the course of a scenario, as detailed on page 68 of the Advanced Player's Guide. Magi follow the same rules in copying spells to their spellbooks as wizards in all ways save that they use the magus spell list to determine if they may learn a spell, instead of the sorcerer/wizard spell list. If a wizard, witch, magus, or alchemist PC is adventuring with another PC who could teach them a spell, those PCs may exchange spells on their own terms as long as they make the proper skill checks and their trading of arcane secrets does not interfere with the flow of the game, at the GM's discretion. If you don't find a scroll of a given spell during the course of an adventure, you have to buy the scroll to learn it. An NPC isn't just going to give you access to his spells for free, and purchasing a scroll of that spell represents the cost of gaining access to his spellbook. Any spell or formula learned must be accounted for on a scenario's Chronicle sheet in the "Conditions Gained" section.

Hmmm. Definite difference in cost, as Jiggy & Nosig have posted. However, "buying the scroll" adds some, hopefully unintended, costs to some spells, as there can be significant extra costs for material components on some spells.

Just a couple of the more interestng spells, off the top of my head:

Stoneskin: scroll includes a 250 GP component

Restoration: Do you have to buy a maximum Restoration scroll, with the extra 900 GP worth (total 1,000 GP) of diamond dust used, or a cheaper scroll, with only the basic 100 GP of diamond dust requirement?

[nosig]

Kinevon - Restoration is a Cleric Paladin spell, so you can't add it to a Wizard Spellbook.
In PFS you COULD add it to an Alchemist spellbook with a captured scroll (as in PFS scrolls are usable by both Arcane & Divine casters), but you would have to buy the scroll to do it. The exception for scribing a scroll to your book without buying it is for Wizards only.

[nosig]

nosig wrote:

Kinevon - Restoration is a Cleric Paladin spell, so you can't add it to a Wizard Spellbook.

In PFS you COULD add it to an Alchemist spellbook with a captured scroll (as in PFS scrolls are usable by both Arcane & Divine casters), but you would have to buy the scroll to do it. The exception for scribing a scroll to your book without buying it is for Wizards only, or at least that is what I was told on a different thread.

[kinevon]

nosig wrote:

nosig wrote:

Kinevon - Restoration is a Cleric Paladin spell, so you can't add it to a Wizard Spellbook.

In PFS you COULD add it to an Alchemist spellbook with a captured scroll (as in PFS scrolls are usable by both Arcane & Divine casters), but you would have to buy the scroll to do it. The exception for scribing a scroll to your book without buying it is for Wizards only, or at least that is what I was told on a different thread.

Given that the FAQ I quoted from explicitly says it is for wizards, witches, magi, and alchemists, you were misinformed on the other thread.

And I was using Restoration because it is one of the more egregrious (am I using that word correctly?) instances of a spell with a large component cost, in addition to haveing different component costs, depending on circumstances.

Heck, for Resist Energy, Protection from Energy and Fire Shield, can you actually scribe the generic spell from a spoecific version on a scroll?

Resist Fire, as compared to Resist Energy...

[Take Boat]

The scrolls already have the generic versions, kinevon. The decision isn't made until the spell is cast. There is no *resist fire* spell.

[kinevon]

Take Boat wrote:

The scrolls already have the generic versions, kinevon. The decision isn't made until the spell is cast. There is no *resist fire* spell.

You sure about that? I could of sworn that there was something about scrolls and/or potions having to be pre-determined as to which energy type they worked on.

[Take Boat]

I think that was the case in 2e, but in PF I'm sure. You don't make decisions about the spell until it's actually cast.

[Jiggy]

The rules for potions in the CRB state that all decisions are made when the potion is brewed. Not so for scrolls.

[Bbauzh ap Aghauzh]

Jiggy wrote:

The rules for potions in the CRB state that all decisions are made when the potion is brewed. Not so for scrolls.

Indeed. a Potion of Resistance must have the element chosen. As would technically a potion of lesser restoration. Albeit, SKR said it would be fine to hand-wave the lesser restoration thing.

[Jiggy]

I hope Mike has a chance to take a look at this before 4.2 comes out...

[Bbauzh ap Aghauzh]

4.2 as far as I know is into the editing and layout, so no more changes are likely to happen in it. This might be more of an FAQ issue.

[Jiggy]

Honestly, I meant more for timing purposes - avoiding having new rules show up in August, and then potentially a change in the FAQ an undetermined amount of time later.

[Dragnmoon]

So I was just looking at getting some spells for my Alchemist and I made a List of all the spells I wanted and If I bought them how much they would cost. Below is the difference of what it costs using PFS rules for purchasing spells for spellbooks/formula book vs the learning from spellcaster Core rules on page 219. It is a good visual so you can see the dramatic price difference, especially at higher levels.

1st Level 11 Spells
PFS Rules: 275 gp Scrolls + 110 gp writing = 385 gp
Core Rules: 55 gp fee + 110 gp writing = 165 gp

2nd Level 14 Spells
PFS Rules: 2100 gp Scrolls + 560 gp writing = 2660 gp
Core Rules: 280 gp fee + 560 gp writing = 840 gp

3rd Level 18 Spells
PFS Rules: 6750 gp Scrolls + 550 Component Cost + 1620 gp writing = 8920 gp
Core Rules: 810 gp fee + 1620 gp writing = 2430 gp

4th Level 21 Spells
PFS Rules: 14700 gp Scrolls + 200 Component Cost + 3360 gp writing = 18260 gp
Core Rules: 1680 gp fee + 3360 gp writing = 5040 gp

Total:
PFS Rules = 30,225 gp
Core Rules = 8475 gp

As you can see the difference becomes more dramatic as you buy higher level spells. For my example of my character there is a difference of 21,750 gp extra between using the PFS rules and the Core rules.

Edit: This is even worse for GM Credit characters since they have less chance of learning spells from other players and Scrolls found.

[nosig]

Dragnmoon wrote:

So I was just looking at getting some spells for my Alchemist and I made a List of all the spells I wanted and If I bought them how much they would cost. Below is the difference of what it costs using PFS rules for purchasing spells for spellbooks/formula book vs the learning from spellcaster Core rules on page 219. It is a good visual so you can see the dramatic price difference, especially at higher levels.

1st Level 11 Spells
PFS Rules: 275 gp Scrolls + 110 gp writing = 385 gp
Core Rules: 55 gp fee + 110 gp writing = 165 gp

2nd Level 14 Spells
PFS Rules: 2100 gp Scrolls + 560 gp writing = 2660 gp
Core Rules: 280 gp fee + 560 gp writing = 840 gp

3rd Level 18 Spells
PFS Rules: 6750 gp Scrolls + 550 Component Cost + 1620 gp writing = 8920 gp
Core Rules: 810 gp fee + 1620 gp writing = 2430 gp

4th Level 21 Spells
PFS Rules: 14700 gp Scrolls + 200 Component Cost + 3360 gp writing = 18260 gp
Core Rules: 1680 gp fee + 3360 gp writing = 5040 gp

Total:
PFS Rules = 30,225 gp
Core Rules = 8475 gp

As you can see the difference becomes more dramatic as you buy higher level spells. For my example of my character there is a difference of 21,750 gp extra between using the PFS rules and the Core rules.

Edit: This is even worse for GM Credit characters since they have less chance of learning spells from other players and Scrolls found.

Also, it is even cheaper to get them from another PC... who may have found them in a different adventure, or gotten them when he leveled up. Alchemists can get spells either from Wizards or from other Alchemists too.

[Dragnmoon]

nosig wrote:

Also, it is even cheaper to get them from another PC... who may have found them in a different adventure, or gotten them when he leveled up. Alchemists can get spells either from Wizards or from other Alchemists too.

Thanks nosig, but I am already aware of that, the idea above was to show the dramatic difference between PFS rules and Core rules of buying spells.

For this specific character he is made mostly with GM credit, so his chances of getting spells from other players or found scrolls have been rare so most of his spells he has had to buy.

[LazarX]

Dragnmoon wrote:

nosig wrote:

Also, it is even cheaper to get them from another PC... who may have found them in a different adventure, or gotten them when he leveled up. Alchemists can get spells either from Wizards or from other Alchemists too.

Thanks nosig, but I am already aware of that, the idea above was to show the dramatic difference between PFS rules and Core rules of buying spells.

For this specific character he is made mostly with GM credit, so his chances of getting spells from other players or found scrolls have been rare so most of his spells he has had to buy.

The rules aren't really different, it's just that PFS mandates that which mechanics be used to obtain spells. The assumption may be that NPC wizards follow "guild rules" and don't sell spell access to PC's. The mechanics that PFS uses is completely compliant with Core Rules it's a different application.

[nosig]

LazarX...
I did not follow what you are trying to say.
Sorry - I must be stuck in Monday

[Wraithcannon]

LazarX wrote:

The assumption may be that NPC wizards follow "guild rules" and don't sell spell access to PC's. The mechanics that PFS uses is completely compliant with Core Rules it's a different application.

This logic makes no sense, the Pathfinders have their own powerful wizards, are you saying that none of them are allowed to support their fellow members in growing arcane knowledge?

All this debate is all well and good, I'm just going to wait for that "oh so elusive" offical answer.

[Dragnmoon]

We already have the official answer, you buy scrolls. I think what some want is a change to that official answer.

[LazarX]

Wraithcannon wrote:

LazarX wrote:

The assumption may be that NPC wizards follow "guild rules" and don't sell spell access to PC's. The mechanics that PFS uses is completely compliant with Core Rules it's a different application.

This logic makes no sense, the Pathfinders have their own powerful wizards, are you saying that none of them are allowed to support their fellow members in growing arcane knowledge?

Actually that's pretty much exactly what the PFS rules imply. Aram Zey, to note an example has his own buisness and his own agenda, he's not going to open his book for you plebes. Also given that many Pathfinders don't share a common agenda, the NPC's don't have a reason to buck the in house system. Wizards on the average are very reluctant to open their spellbooks to anyone. What PC's do at a table is the exception, not the rule.

And most Pathfinder Wizards are ... out in the field being Pathfinders.

You already have your official answer... the rules as stated for the Campaign mandate how you get access to spells for your book. It's via scrolls you either purchase from the Society or find in a Chronicle.

[nosig]

Some one should not try to explain it in "Realistic" terms.

This is like the rule that says "everyone at the table can buy item XX off the Chronicle", even when the item is a one-of-a-kind widget.

Thaat's the rules. We agree to play by the rules.

As a general rule, PCs open thier books to anyone - sharing spells without any expectation of a return. Some players (me for example) make a habit of "transfering" spells from PC to PC. I have 7th level PC, a Rogue who has one level of wizard... he has a VERY large spell book (with spells up thru 5th level). the intent of this book is to provide other PathFinder PCs with expanded spell access... Should I expect a visit from the local Wizards Guild? ("we need to discuss this open book practice of yours..."). I'm guessing not.

[nosig]

LazarX wrote:

...snipping to save space...

You already have your official answer... the rules as stated for the Campaign mandate how you get access to spells for your book. It's via scrolls you either purchase from the Society or find in a adventure before Chronicles are given out.

Fixed that for you.

It is very possible for you to gain access to spells that are not on the Chronicle. First Steps Part II for example contains a spellbook with spells that does not appear on the Chronicle.

It is possible that you will NOT gain access to scrolls that appear on the Chronicle. If the BBE cast several buff spells from scrolls, they often appear on the Chronicle, but are not available during the adventure to be copied to your book (or added to your familiar in the case of a witch).

[sveden]

nosig wrote:

LazarX wrote:

...snipping to save space...

You already have your official answer... the rules as stated for the Campaign mandate how you get access to spells for your book. It's via scrolls you either purchase from the Society or find in a adventure before Chronicles are given out.

Fixed that for you.

It is very possible for you to gain access to spells that are not on the Chronicle. First Steps Part II for example contains a spellbook with spells that does not appear on the Chronicle.

It is possible that you will NOT gain access to scrolls that appear on the Chronicle. If the BBE cast several buff spells from scrolls, they often appear on the Chronicle, but are not available during the adventure to be copied to your book (or added to your familiar in the case of a witch).

That still doesn't require that players do all their scribing BEFORE the chronicles are handed out. If they found the scroll, they found the scroll. In fact they shouldn't be scribing anything until they get their chronicle. That way the GM can observe them recording the costs.

[Dragnmoon]

sveden wrote:

That still doesn't require that players do all their scribing BEFORE the chronicles are handed out. If they found the scroll, they found the scroll. In fact they shouldn't be scribing anything until they get their chronicle. That way the GM can observe them recording the costs.

And I keep telling him that but it just does not stick!

nosig the important part is to scribe the scroll before the game ends, not before you get the chronicle.

Once the game ends and everyone goes home then you are stuck having to buy the scroll.

[BigNorseWolf]

Dragnmoon wrote:

nosig the important part is to scribe the scroll before the game ends, not before you get the chronicle.

Once the game ends and everyone goes home then you are stuck having to buy the scroll.

I believe the problem nosig is pointing to that as soon as the adventure is over and the chronicle sheets come out people are scrambling to put minis away and beat out the closing time for the venue. Things like shopping technically are supposed to be done with the DM there but there isn't much time, but since there's no roll to pick up weapon blanches at the market people tend to overlook that

[Dragnmoon]

BigNorseWolf wrote:

I believe the problem nosig is pointing to that as soon as the adventure is over and the chronicle sheets come out people are scrambling to put minis away and beat out the closing time for the venue. Things like shopping technically are supposed to be done with the DM there but there isn't much time, but since there's no roll to pick up weapon blanches at the market people tend to overlook that

It is up to the player to remind the GM he has some spells to add.

[nosig]

Dragnmoon, what I am trying to point out is that the player needs to say he is coping the spell prior to getting the Chronicle. He cannot get the Chronicle, look down and see a scroll of Darkvision and say "I copy this spell into my book" because he didn't have it before he got the Chronicle - he may not even have known that it was there to be gotten.

It sould be tracked during play much like a Bribe would be. Or something else bought during the game. For example: my wizard bought a vial of anti-toxin (50gp), a bribe of (20gp), and copied 2 2nd level spells to my book (80gp). each of these things are done during the game, before chronicles are given out.

I can not (even though most people do it this way) go away from the table, look down and see a scroll of Darkvision and say - "wow, I'll add that to my book for 40 gp. Let me write it in here, right under the Anti-Toxin and Bribe that I did during the game." I have to tell the judge that I am writing this spell into my book.

Most players never interact again with the judge after the Chronicle passes from the Judge to the player. "Thanks for running the game!" sometimes doesn't even get said, 'cause there is not enough time.

[nosig]

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Dragnmoon wrote:

nosig the important part is to scribe the scroll before the game ends, not before you get the chronicle.

Once the game ends and everyone goes home then you are stuck having to buy the scroll.

I believe the problem nosig is pointing to that as soon as the adventure is over and the chronicle sheets come out people are scrambling to put minis away and beat out the closing time for the venue. Things like shopping technically are supposed to be done with the DM there but there isn't much time, but since there's no roll to pick up weapon blanches at the market people tend to overlook that

exactly.

I place a sticky note on my PC sheets between games. I list the things I think that PC needs to buy before his next game, and mention it to the judge at the start of that PC's next game. and it goes on that games Chronicle.

We can not do this with spells gained in the last adventure - they go on the Chronicle for the game that they are gotten. Otherwise you have to buy the scroll.

as BNW says above "Things like shopping technically are supposed to be done with the DM there but there isn't much time, but since there's no roll to pick up ... people tend to overlook that". Scroll accesses are being done this way. New people think that you gain access to the spell FROM THE CHRONICLE, not from finding the scroll during the game.

And if you used the scroll during the game - you can't copy it to your book. And if you have an Alchemist and a Witch for example, they BOTH can't copy the spell, only one can get it. (unless there is more than one scroll - which there is AFTER chronicles are handed out).

[nosig]

Dragnmoon wrote:

BigNorseWolf wrote:

I believe the problem nosig is pointing to that as soon as the adventure is over and the chronicle sheets come out people are scrambling to put minis away and beat out the closing time for the venue. Things like shopping technically are supposed to be done with the DM there but there isn't much time, but since there's no roll to pick up weapon blanches at the market people tend to overlook that

It is up to the player to remind the GM he has some spells to add.

I wish to stress that we are not teaching people this. New people think that you gain access to the spell FROM THE CHRONICLE, after the game is over, not from finding the scroll during the game. They never discuss it with the judge. "They (think they) don't need to, after all, the spells on the chronicle, they can just copy it right?"

[BigNorseWolf]

Nosig wrote:

And if you used the scroll during the game - you can't copy it to your book. And if you have an Alchemist and a Witch for example, they BOTH can't copy the spell, only one can get it.

Hmmm... Go back to town, stop at the nearest inn. Say "hey, any wizards here want to crib a free spell?" Let the wizard copy the scroll, and then the witch and alchemist copy it off of the wizard?

(mental image of the owl sitting on the alchemists shoulder while he's trying to read the book)

[Serum]

Still, if players/DMs are keeping track of what scrolls they found and didn't use up at the end of the game, they should be able to make their rolls while the DM is wrapping up.

As long as they know that it's the game scroll that they're copying, not the chronicle scroll.

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Hmmm... Go back to town, stop at the nearest inn. Say "hey, any wizards here want to crib a free spell?" Let the wizard copy the scroll, and then the witch and alchemist copy it off of the wizard?

*wizard copies the scroll* "Okay, witch & alchemist, pay me the scroll price for the spell, and I'll let you copy it out of my spell-book." *witch and alchemist make the sad-face, and/or beat the crap out of the wizard and steal his book*.

[nosig]

Serum wrote:

Still, if players/DMs are keeping track of what scrolls they found and didn't use up at the end of the game, they should be able to make their rolls while the DM is wrapping up.

As long as they know that it's the game scroll that they're copying, not the chronicle scroll.

yes! exactly. they get the access from the scroll, not from the chronicle.

"New people think that you gain access to the spell FROM THE CHRONICLE, after the game is over, not from finding the scroll during the game."

[nosig]

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Nosig wrote:

And if you used the scroll during the game - you can't copy it to your book. And if you have an Alchemist and a Witch for example, they BOTH can't copy the spell, only one can get it.

Hmmm... Go back to town, stop at the nearest inn. Say "hey, any wizards here want to crib a free spell?" Let the wizard copy the scroll, and then the witch and alchemist copy it off of the wizard?

sounds great... except the rules say no. NPC wizards don't give access to thier spell books.

Oh! and I don't think witches can learn spells from wizards books.

[Serum]

Yeah, the witch's familiar can't, but the alchemist can. Witch familiars have to learn from familiars (good luck finding a friendly witch familiar in a scenario. At least wizards/alchemists can pick up a spellbook from an enemy wizard's corpse).

Back on topic, considering every PC pathfinder travels through Absalom on a frequent basis, there's no reason for the CRB rules to not be in effect. In a city the size of Absalom, we should be able to find wizards who are selling access to their spellbooks at the prices listed in the CRB.

[Dragnmoon]

nosig wrote:

"New people think that you gain access to the spell FROM THE CHRONICLE, after the game is over, not from finding the scroll during the game."

I know you think that, we don't know if all new people think this. I know in my experience I have never seen anyone think this other then you and a few others that have posted here.

I think part of the problem is that people just don't read the FAQ. Its importance for PFS is just not stressed enough.

[nosig]

This one will turn your head though. (going to set off some fireworks)

I have a Rogue. I want the Wizard in the party to cast Darkvision on me. He thinks he has better things to do with his 2nd level spells and besides he doesn't have Darkvision. So....

I buy the scroll on day one of the adventure. I hand the scroll to the Wiz and say, "Good sir! I will give you this scroll if you can but scribe this spell to your Tome of spells. While we adventure together, if you would but prepare this spell, and perhaps cast it upon me when we venture into the Forgotten Cellar of Evil Hamsters, I would be of much greater use to our expedition."

yeah... I just transfered some wealth from my rogue to the wizard PC... and he gets to keep it from now on.

[nosig]

Dragnmoon wrote:

nosig wrote:

"New people think that you gain access to the spell FROM THE CHRONICLE, after the game is over, not from finding the scroll during the game."

I know you think that, we don't know if all new people think this. I know in my experience I have never seen anyone think this other then you and a few others that have posted here.

I think part of the problem is that people just don't read the FAQ. Its importance for PFS is just not stressed enough.

ask an arcane caster where he gets access to new spells.

they all say... (well, all except me now)

"when I level and from sharing with other casters... oh! and from scrolls on Chronicles."

(edit) perhaps at higher level. Almost all my play is at lower level, below level 7. Many players down there don't know how to FIND the FAQ, let alone read it. They learn the game the same way most of us do, from other players.

[sveden]

nosig wrote:

This one will turn your head though. (going to set off some fireworks)

I have a Rogue. I want the Wizard in the party to cast Darkvision on me. He thinks he has better things to do with his 2nd level spells and besides he doesn't have Darkvision. So....

I buy the scroll on day one of the adventure. I hand the scroll to the Wiz and say, "Good sir! I will give you this scroll if you can but scribe this spell to your Tome of spells. While we adventure together, if you would but prepare this spell, and perhaps cast it upon me when we venture into the Forgotten Cellar of Evil Hamsters, I would be of much greater use to our expedition."

yeah... I just transfered some wealth from my rogue to the wizard PC... and he gets to keep it from now on.

You cannot do that. You cannot do this for the exact reason you stated, you are transferring wealth to the wizard from your rogue.

[Dragnmoon]

nosig wrote:

yeah... I just transfered some wealth from my rogue to the wizard PC... and he gets to keep it from now on.

Seems like you already did it, But I don't think you can do that.

[sveden]

nosig wrote:

Dragnmoon wrote:

nosig wrote:

"New people think that you gain access to the spell FROM THE CHRONICLE, after the game is over, not from finding the scroll during the game."

I know you think that, we don't know if all new people think this. I know in my experience I have never seen anyone think this other then you and a few others that have posted here.

I think part of the problem is that people just don't read the FAQ. Its importance for PFS is just not stressed enough.

ask an arcane caster where he gets access to new spells.

they all say... (well, all except me now)

"when I level and from sharing with other casters... oh! and from scrolls on Chronicles."

(edit) perhaps at higher level. Almost all my play is at lower level, below level 7. Many players down there don't know how to FIND the FAQ, let alone read it. They learn the game the same way most of us do, from other players.

They do not all say that. Please try and be reasonable if you are going to post examples.

[nosig]

sveden wrote:

nosig wrote:

This one will turn your head though. (going to set off some fireworks)

I have a Rogue. I want the Wizard in the party to cast Darkvision on me. He thinks he has better things to do with his 2nd level spells and besides he doesn't have Darkvision. So....

I buy the scroll on day one of the adventure. I hand the scroll to the Wiz and say, "Good sir! I will give you this scroll if you can but scribe this spell to your Tome of spells. While we adventure together, if you would but prepare this spell, and perhaps cast it upon me when we venture into the Forgotten Cellar of Evil Hamsters, I would be of much greater use to our expedition."

yeah... I just transfered some wealth from my rogue to the wizard PC... and he gets to keep it from now on.

You cannot do that. You cannot do this for the exact reason you stated, you are transferring wealth to the wizard from your rogue.

Part A)

1) My PC has a scroll.
2) He hands it to the Wizard.
3) The wizard uses it.

all good so far?

Part B)
1) Wizard encounters a scroll in an adventure.
2) Wizard uses scroll to scribe the spell into his book.

Still good?

you are saying Part A & Part B can not be done together...
Why not?

"A wizard may not scribe a scroll he recieves from a PC during an adventure. He may use it for any other purpose. He MAY scribe scrolls he buys, finds, or recieves from NPCs, but not those from PCs." Is this the case then?

[nosig]

sveden wrote:

nosig wrote:

Dragnmoon wrote:

nosig wrote:

"New people think that you gain access to the spell FROM THE CHRONICLE, after the game is over, not from finding the scroll during the game."

I know you think that, we don't know if all new people think this. I know in my experience I have never seen anyone think this other then you and a few others that have posted here.

I think part of the problem is that people just don't read the FAQ. Its importance for PFS is just not stressed enough.

ask an arcane caster where he gets access to new spells.

they all say... (well, all except me now)

"when I level and from sharing with other casters... oh! and from scrolls on Chronicles."

(edit) perhaps at higher level. Almost all my play is at lower level, below level 7. Many players down there don't know how to FIND the FAQ, let alone read it. They learn the game the same way most of us do, from other players.

They do not all say that. Please try and be reasonable if you are going to post examples.

LOL! I am being reasonable. I've asked several arcane casters in the past month.

I have started "correcting" people about a month ago (I was doing it the wrong way up until I was corrected by Dragnmoon and several others on a thread on this board, so I felt I needed to correct the damage I had done). I'm one of those "old hands" that teach a lot of beginners.

This is what most players currently say.
"you get spells from other PCs and from access on Chronicles." Sometimes they forget the ones they get for leveling. But everyone "knows" the chronicle gives spell access, just like item access.

[nosig]

Dragnmoon wrote:

nosig wrote:

yeah... I just transfered some wealth from my rogue to the wizard PC... and he gets to keep it from now on.

Seems like you already did it, But I don't think you can do that.

(wow - lost a really nice detailed reply when the site went down. Ah, well...)

actually no Dragnmoon, I have not needed to.

I've not encounted it yet either, but I'm sure if I can think of it, other people are more than able to do so also.

My rogue has a single level of wizard, so I do not need to buy a scroll to pass a wizard a spell, I just let him copy it from my spell book. I've adventured with several high level wizards, so my book is very extensive (spells thru 5th level).

So I figured I'd point this loop-hole out. If someone want to patch it (thur an FAQ maybe?), so much the better. I like a well defined set of guidelines, ones that are internally consistant.

[sveden]

nosig wrote:

Dragnmoon wrote:

nosig wrote:

yeah... I just transfered some wealth from my rogue to the wizard PC... and he gets to keep it from now on.

Seems like you already did it, But I don't think you can do that.

(wow - lost a really nice detailed reply when the site went down. Ah, well...)

actually no Dragnmoon, I have not needed to.

I've not encounted it yet either, but I'm sure if I can think of it, other people are more than able to do so also.

My rogue has a single level of wizard, so I do not need to buy a scroll to pass a wizard a spell, I just let him copy it from my spell book. I've adventured with several high level wizards, so my book is very extensive (spells thru 5th level).

So I figured I'd point this loop-hole out. If someone want to patch it (thur an FAQ maybe?), so much the better. I like a well defined set of guidelines, ones that are internally consistant.

You changed your example. You clearly stated that you buy a scroll and then hand it to the wizard.

Why did you do that? Are you trying to avoid being wrong after the fact? Or are you starting a different discussion?

[kinevon]

No, he was pointing out something he does that is perfectly legal per campaign rules, and trying to find out how it is different from someone buying a scroll of X and letting their FNW scribe it to their spellbook instead of "cast" it.

Also, by the rules, it seems perfectly legal, at this time, for someone to buy a scroll of X, and let a Wizard/Magus/Alchemist/Witch scribe (or equivalent) it into their spellbook (or equivalent). Except that, it also seems to break the "give another PC money".

I don't think it does, myself, any more than letting someone else use any of your consumables does.

You bought it, you paid for it, you asked the PC of class X to use it.
PC of class X uses it, not to cast, but to scribe, and pays the appropriate scribing cost, along with the spellcraft check, to add that spell to their spellbook.
Scroll gone, as normal, PC is not allowed to buy another copy of said scroll and give it to you.