If you your normal bloodline is Draconic and you take the Eldritch Heritage feat for Empyreal are you required to have a 13 Cha to take this?
Bloodline Arcana
Unlike most sorcerers whose innate magic is powered by force of personality, you use pure willpower to master and fuel your magic. You use your Wisdom, rather than your Charisma, to determine all class features and effects relating to your sorcerer class, such as bonus spells per day, maximum spell level you can cast, and the save DCs of your spells. You gain a +2 bonus on all Heal and Knowledge (religion) checks.
This ability replaces the Celestial Bloodline Arcana.
Eldritch Heritage
Prerequisites: Cha 13, Skill Focus with the class skill of bloodline selected for this feat (see below), character level 3rd.
Benefit: Select one sorcerer bloodline. You must have Skill focus in the class skill that bloodline grants to a sorcerer at 1st level (for example, Heal for the celestial bloodline). This bloodline cannot be a bloodline you already have. You gain the first-level bloodline power for the selected bloodline. For purposes of using that power, treat your sorcerer level as equal to your character level – 2, even if you have levels in sorcerer. You do not gain any of the other bloodline abilities.
My kneejerk reaction is "no". However, Bloodline is a Sorcerer class feature. Eldritch Heritage, while a feat, does give you a class feature. Namely that Bloodline.
For anyone who is interested this would be for a Sorcerer/Monk trying to qualify for Dragon Disciple without having to deal with MAD issues with the need of a high Cha.
Actually after doing a bit of looking I think I figured out a better option that doesn't require nearly as large of an investment: Crossblooded.
So, I guess.... nevermind. ;) Thanx for the post though.
I'm not sure if empyreal is legal for crossblooded. Could be they both change the same abilities.
And being crossblooded is a huge investment. You get every new spell level one level later than other sorcerers.
The character in question would not be a heavy spellcaster. He would only be using Sorcerer to qualify for Dragon Disciple mainly for it's martial benefits, not it's spellcasting. The spellcasting is just icing on the cake.
Also, I think you have their drawbacks a bit confused.
Drawbacks
A crossblooded sorcerer has one fewer spell known at each level (including cantrips) than is presented on Table: Sorcerer Spells Known.
Furthermore, the conflicting urges created by the divergent nature of the crossblooded sorcerer’s dual heritage forces her to constantly take some mental effort just to remain focused on her current situation and needs. This leaves her with less mental resolve to deal with external threats. A crossblooded sorcerer always takes a –2 penalty on Will saves.
See this thread for the idea I was rolling around in my head.
"A crossblooded sorcerer has one fewer spell known at each level (including cantrips) than is presented on Table: Sorcerer Spells Known." means that you start with 0 spells known when you get a new spell level.
For example: Normal sorcerers get 2nd level spells at 4th level. They start out with 1 2nd level spell known.
A crossblooded sorc has one fewer spell known so at 4th level he knows 0 2nd level spells. Meaning at 4th level a crossblooded sorc can't cast 2nd level spells thou he has 2nd level spell slots.
Ah, I see what you mean. So first level they only get one spell. And 4th level they get none. Ah well, like I said, I'm not doing it for the spells.
They know one less spell. You still have the slots and could cast lower level spells out of them or use meta magic feats.
If you only do this for the entry I'd not take sorc at all but tanke 1 level of bard, most likely arcane duellist and just don't dump cha below 11. Or go on, dump it to 9 and buy a +2 cha item before going DD.
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And don't forget the bonus spells for having a high ability score.
Furthermore:
You gain the first-level bloodline power for the selected bloodline. For purposes of using that power, treat your sorcerer level as equal to your character level – 2, even if you have levels in sorcerer. You do not gain any of the other bloodline abilities.The 1st level bloodline power for the Celestial bloodline (ditto for Empyreal) is:
Heavenly Fire (Sp): Starting at 1st level, you can unleash a ray of heavenly fire as a standard action, targeting any foe within 30 feet as a ranged touch attack. Against evil creatures, this ray deals 1d4 points of damage + 1 for every two sorcerer levels you possess. This damage is divine and not subject to energy resistance or immunity. This ray heals good creatures of 1d4 points of damage + 1 for every two sorcerer levels you possess. A good creature cannot benefit from your heavenly fire more than once per day. Neutral creatures are neither harmed nor healed by this effect. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier.
Eldritch Heritage series does *NOT* grant access to the Bloodline Arcanas, only the powers.
Crossblooded.
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If you your normal bloodline is Draconic and you take the Eldritch Heritage feat for Empyreal are you required to have a 13 Cha to take this?
Bloodline Arcana
Unlike most sorcerers whose innate magic is powered by force of personality, you use pure willpower to master and fuel your magic. You use your Wisdom, rather than your Charisma, to determine all class features and effects relating to your sorcerer class, such as bonus spells per day, maximum spell level you can cast, and the save DCs of your spells. You gain a +2 bonus on all Heal and Knowledge (religion) checks.
This ability replaces the Celestial Bloodline Arcana.
Eldritch Heritage
Prerequisites: Cha 13, Skill Focus with the class skill of bloodline selected for this feat (see below), character level 3rd.
Benefit: Select one sorcerer bloodline. You must have Skill focus in the class skill that bloodline grants to a sorcerer at 1st level (for example, Heal for the celestial bloodline). This bloodline cannot be a bloodline you already have. You gain the first-level bloodline power for the selected bloodline. For purposes of using that power, treat your sorcerer level as equal to your character level – 2, even if you have levels in sorcerer. You do not gain any of the other bloodline abilities.
My kneejerk reaction is "no". However, Bloodline is a Sorcerer class feature. Eldritch Heritage, while a feat, does give you a class feature. Namely that Bloodline.
For anyone who is interested this would be for a Sorcerer/Monk trying to qualify for Dragon Disciple without having to deal with MAD issues with the need of a high Cha.
This has been discussed at length in other threads, but technically you can't do Empyreal (or any other mutated bloodline) with EITHER Crossblooded OR Eldritch Heritage. Here's why:
Eldritch Heritage lets you choose a bloodline. The mutated bloodlines are NOT, in and of themselves, bloodlines. They are the result of a class archetype (Wildblooded) MODIFYING an existing bloodline (in this case the Celestial bloodline). You can't take an archetype of Sorcerer from just having the Eldritch Heritage feat, so you would end up with some of the powers of the Celestial bloodline.
As far as Crossblooded goes, this one is much more contested. The problem here is that both the Crossblooded and the Wildblooded archetypes technically modify the Bloodline class feature of the Sorcerer. This would mean you can't take both of them. Now, personally, I consider each part of the Bloodline to be a seperate class feature (for example, if you replace Bloodline Power 1 with one archetype, you could still replace Bloodline Power 3 with another archetype without them conflicting). This would be similar to how archetypes of the Bard work, where you can exchange different Bardic Performances with different archetypes, and so you could either say "they modify the Bardic Performance class ability, so they conflict" or you could say "that one modifies Inspire Courage, that one replaces Inspire Confidence, so they don't conflict."
So, assuming you take my stance on it and say that Crossblooded and Wildblooded are compatible, then you come to another problem. If you take the Wildblooded archetype, it modifies any standard bloodline you have into a mutated one. If you have the Draconic and Celestial bloodlines, you'd end up instead with the Linnorm and Empyreal bloodlines. Since Dragon Disciple REQUIRES you to have the Draconic bloodline, (again being super technical) you no longer qualify for the Dragon Disciple prestige class.
PHEW! OK, so quick round-up of what I just said:
-Can't take Eldritch Heritage with a Wildblooded bloodline.
-Can't do Wildblooded and Crossblooded together, technically.
-Even if you can, you can't have both Draconic and Empyreal bloodlines, since they'd both be modified by Wildblooded.
One more quick point... or a question for you, Lune, really. Why would you want to do the Empyreal bloodline with Eldritch Heritage anyway? You wouldn't get the Bloodline Arcana, which switches the sorcerer to Wis-based... what other benefit would there be for your build?
Eltruch heritage does not give you the bloodline arcana. So you'll still use CHA for everything related to the bloodline powers.
So, assuming you take my stance on it and say that Crossblooded and Wildblooded are compatible, then you come to another problem. If you take the Wildblooded archetype, it modifies any standard bloodline you have into a mutated one. If you have the Draconic and Celestial bloodlines, you'd end up instead with the Linnorm and Empyreal bloodlines. Since Dragon Disciple REQUIRES you to have the Draconic bloodline, (again being super technical) you no longer qualify for the Dragon Disciple prestige class.
ignoring/'interpreting away' the things you do in order to allow crossblooded+wildblooded to work,
i DON'T think there actually is a problem w/ draconic:wildblooded:linnorn to qualify for Dragon Disciple.wildblooded doesn't remove the original bloodline, it just modifies the POWERS of it.
Dragon Disciple doesn't have specific powers of the Draconic Bloodline as it's Pre-Reqs*,
it has simply HAVING the Draconic BL as it's pre-req, and as Wildblooded doesn't take that away,
you still have the Draconic bloodline for any purpose for which that matters...
(e.g. I could imagine a Draconic Bane weapon that extra damaged Dragons and Draconic BL chars: that still applies to Linnorn Wildblooded Sorcerors)
* Of course, if you give up Draconic BL Claws to gain Linnorn's Energy Ray, the Dragon Disciple ability that adds a Bite, and eventually Energy Damage, to whenever you use the Draconic Claws, will be wasted and never used.
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So, assuming you take my stance on it and say that Crossblooded and Wildblooded are compatible, then you come to another problem. If you take the Wildblooded archetype, it modifies any standard bloodline you have into a mutated one. If you have the Draconic and Celestial bloodlines, you'd end up instead with the Linnorm and Empyreal bloodlines. Since Dragon Disciple REQUIRES you to have the Draconic bloodline, (again being super technical) you no longer qualify for the Dragon Disciple prestige class.
ignoring/'interpreting away' the things you do in order to allow crossblooded+wildblooded to work,
i DON'T think there actually is a problem w/ draconic:wildblooded:linnorn to qualify for Dragon Disciple.
wildblooded doesn't remove the original bloodline, it just modifies the POWERS of it.
Dragon Disciple doesn't have specific powers of the Draconic Bloodline as it's Pre-Reqs*,
it has simply HAVING the Draconic BL as it's pre-req, and as Wildblooded doesn't take that away,
you still have the Draconic bloodline for any purpose for which that matters...
(e.g. I could imagine a Draconic Bane weapon that extra damaged Dragons and Draconic BL chars: that still applies to Linnorn Wildblooded Sorcerors)* Of course, if you give up Draconic BL Claws to gain Linnorn's Energy Ray, the Dragon Disciple ability that adds a Bite, and eventually Energy Damage, to whenever you use the Draconic Claws, will be wasted and never used.
Fair point. So if you accept that crossblooded+wildblooded is legal, then it's doable.
FYI - I was in the other most recent thread discussing whether Wildblooded was doable with Eldritch Heritage. No conclusion was made. The closest it ever got was from a private email that a user posted from James Jacobs (not a rules guy) saying he wouldn't allow it. And nothing was said about Crossblooded.
Either way, I disagree that either of them is not allowable within RAW. They both appear allowable within RAW. You are, of course, welcome to your own interpretation. And until we have an official ruling on it that is all we really have to go on: our own interpretations. That is to say that arguing about it isn't going to do anyone any good.
That being said, assume that my original question was posted with the assumption that it does work. ... then ignore it, because I have my answer on this one. ;) However, if you would like to offer me suggestions or ideas on the build I had in mind for this please check out this thread.