Rogue / ninja ranged attack and sneak bonus

[Tim Melnick]

Our play group has been arguing that the sneak attack bonus does not go with a ra from rogues/ninjas, is that true or do i still get it as long as the target is within 30ft for the attack?

[bigkilla]

Tim Melnick wrote:

Our play group has been arguing that the sneak attack bonus does not go with a ra from rogues/ninjas, is that true or do i still get it as long as the target is within 30ft for the attack?

Yes you can ranged sneak attack from 30 feet but the target has to be unaware of your presence. You need to be stealthed of invis or something.

[Tim Melnick]

then why is there a sniper upgrade for rogues if they do not add sneak damage too ra's? I read and reread the core and it is a separate sentence, "Range attacks can count as sneak attacks only if the target is within 30ft." Then having a ra rogue would be useless.

[bigkilla]

Tim Melnick wrote:

then why is there a sniper upgrade for rogues if they do not add sneak damage too ra's? I read and reread the core and it is a separate sentence, "Range attacks can count as sneak attacks only if the target is within 30ft." Then having a ra rogue would be useless.

The key word is CAN.They do add sneak attack damage to ranged attacks that they qualify for. They do not get sneak attacks on any old ranged attack. If they did why would someone ever play a melee Rogue?

The rogue's attack deals extra damage (called "precision damage") anytime her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks her target.

Ranged attacks can count as sneak attacks only if the target is within 30 feet.

[Tim Melnick]

tyvm
i see that a rogue has no reason too have a ra weapon for that then.

[Belazoar]

Chect the Scout archetype out for rogues. it's skirmisher ability may be what you are looking for. Or convert the Scout class from DnD Complete Adventurer to Pathfinder, it wouldn't take much, it's a well designed class. IMO

The Scout archetype for Rogues is in the APG. It's ability to look at is Skirmisher.

Also in the APG is the Skirmisher archetype for Rangers. You do not want that. :)

[Tim Melnick]

guess i would have too look up the sniper subclass for rogues too see if there is something in there that bypasses that rule, or there would be no reason as a rogue you would ever take a ra weapon.

[Roaming Shadow]

Tim Melnick wrote:

guess i would have too look up the sniper subclass for rogues too see if there is something in there that bypasses that rule, or there would be no reason as a rogue you would ever take a ra weapon.

I can tell you now, the Sniper archetype doesn't bypass the maximum range of applying Sneak Attack, though it does increase the range.

There are always Sniper Goggles once you get enough gold. Those allow you to apply Sneak Attack at any range, provided you still meet the other requirments for Sneak Attack.

[Tim Melnick]

its not the range problem, but if ra's actually apply sneak damage as long as the target is within 30ft.

[Roaming Shadow]

Um...they do. From the core rulebook:

"The rogue's attack deals extra damage (called "precision damage") anytime her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks her target."

That means any time the rogue attacks (or, more specifically, makes an attack roll). That includes ranged attacks and I'm pretty sure any spell that includes an attack roll (rays, I believe). To continue:

"Ranged attacks can count as sneak attacks only if the target is within 30 feet"

What these mean is that any time a rogue makes an attack roll against a floot footed or Dex denied oppoenent, the rogue applies sneak attack damage, with the exception that, if it's ranged, it must be within 30ft ro apply.

[Nicos]

Tim Melnick wrote:

its not the range problem, but if ra's actually apply sneak damage as long as the target is within 30ft.

To be within 30 ft is a neccesary condition but not suficient. There are several ways to bypass that but all are at least dificult

A high level ninja can use vanishing trick and have Greater invisibility, all the attack (withing 30 ft) would be then SA.

A 8th level scout/sniper can move an shot an apply his senck damage to a single shot.

A 10th level vivisecsionist can have greater invisibility as an extract.

Smokes or mist or something coupled with something that lets the rogue ignores concealement will work.

Also the shattered defense feat could work but it needs coperation from the rest of the party though. MAke the figher/barbarian take the cornugon smash feat and your damage will scale considerably.

[Tim Melnick]

we were discussing that i would not get my sneak damage when 30ft or less away, so by Mr. Shadows explanation, i still would get my sneak damage in that case.

[bigkilla]

Tim Melnick wrote:

we were discussing that i would not get my sneak damage when 30ft or less away, so by Mr. Shadows explanation, i still would get my sneak damage in that case.

Yes if the target is denied a dexterity bonus to AC. Not just any old time you are within 30 feet.