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I know that PC wizards can try to copy spells they find on scrolls into their spellbooks during the scenario, which removes the spell from the scroll as per normal rules and needs "magic ink" as normal.
If I've run the game and I'm applying the chronicle sheet to a wizard character, do I get the same opportunity to learn spells that are listed on the sheet?
I know I would need another gm to witness the rolls , the same as if I had bought some scrolls, I'm just not sure if I get the chance to roll for scrolls in a module I've GM'd rather than played, or whether the chronicle itrms just become "available to buy".
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I know that PC wizards can try to copy spells they find on scrolls into their spellbooks during the scenario, which removes the spell from the scroll as per normal rules and needs "magic ink" as normal.
If I've run the game and I'm applying the chronicle sheet to a wizard character, do I get the same opportunity to learn spells that are listed on the sheet?
I know I would need another gm to witness the rolls , the same as if I had bought some scrolls, I'm just not sure if I get the chance to roll for scrolls in a module I've GM'd rather than played, or whether the chronicle itrms just become "available to buy".
You would not get "Free access" to the spells, you would need to buy them.
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I do not think you are correct here Dragnmoon.
If the scroll is on the Chronical, the wizard would have access to scribe it to his book. If he can do this with a T10 on the spellcraft roll, he should be able to add this to his book.
Is there something in the F** or someplace that would prohibit this?
What have I missed?
I think what he is asking, is if he can learn the spells without buying the scrolls found during play. You can only do that during the scenario while playing.
You can't do that with chronicles gained through GM credit.
Edit: You can still buy the scrolls ane learn the spells.
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I realize that you could not gain the Boons through GM credit (yet, but from hints from Mike that might change). But where does it say you could not gain access to the spells listed on scrolls?This would be like training an AC, wouldn't it? or just buying a wand for PP or many of the other things you can do on a chronical.
You got access from the scroll on the chronical, the wizard scribes it to his book.
(often these scrolls are already used in the scenario - even pre-cast before the encounter starts.)
Are you not reading what I am saying?..
He does get access to scrolls on the chronicle sheet, what he does not get access to is the ability to Scribe the Scroll to his spell book without buying the scroll first.
When you are playing in a game and you find a scroll, you do not need to buy that scroll to add it to your spellbook, you just make the rolls and pay the fee it costs to write it in the spell book. After the scenario is over then you have to buy the scroll before you can add it.
GMs, don't get that, they need to pay the price of the scroll and then add it in the spell book. Adding a Spell to your spell book without buying the scroll found during the scenario can only be done during the course of playing the scenario, when you are adding GM credit, technically the scenario is over.
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Nosig, I'm pretty sure you're still misunderstanding them. Let me see if I can elucidate:
Many scrolls that appear on the Chronical are NOT recovered in the game. They are used by time the PCs get to them.
Correct. But no one is talking about already-used scrolls. Only ones that are found unused.
So a wizard who plays the scenario gets to add Darkvision to his book because the BBE cast it before the heros broke down his door?
Not what people are saying. People are saying that if a player finds an unused scroll lying around, they can scribe from it without buying it (same way they could grab it and cast from it without buying it) sometime before the scenario ends.
No, he gets to add it because it appears on a scroll on the Chronical where he scribed it.
Once the scenario is over and he's looking at his chronicle sheet, he can't scribe it straight from there - he'd have to buy the scroll first. But we're talking about before that.
He may never have seen it during the game. Pre-cast scrolls, Pre-used potions, etc. often appear on the Chronical.
If you did not gain access to it for judging, it should be called out (like it is for Boons).
To reiterate, we're not so much talking about loot on the chronicle after the session is over. A player can have their PC take an unused scroll found in the scenario (or even an enemy wizard's spellbook!) and scribe from it before the end of the scenario, without buying anything. The OP was asking whether the GM could do the same.
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Venture-Captain, Massachusetts—Central & West
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Many scrolls that appear on the Chronical are NOT recovered in the game. They are used by time the PCs get to them.
So a wizard who plays the scenario gets to add Darkvision to his book because the BBE cast it before the heros broke down his door? No, he gets to add it because it appears on a scroll on the Chronical where he scribed it. He may never have seen it during the game. Pre-cast scrolls, Pre-used potions, etc. often appear on the Chronical.
Wizards would have to buy the pre-used scrolls found on Chronicle sheets to put them into their spellbook. Wizards can only scribe for free the scrolls they find during their adventure. See FAQ:
Pages 219–220 in the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook discuss how to handle a wizard’s spellbook, but Pathfinder Society makes one adjustment to these rules: a wizard does not have to purchase a scroll found during the course of a scenario in order to copy that scroll into her spellbook.
If they don't find it during the scenario, be it whether used by BBEG or burned up in some even, or skipped over, they don't get to scribe it to their book for free. They'd have to purchase it.
EDIT: Also, on to OP's question, as the Wizard isn't actually in the scenario to "find" these scrolls, you'd have to purchase the scrolls to copy them into your spellbook
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Venture-Captain, Massachusetts—Central & West
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It's fine to do at the end, as long as it was one of the scrolls encountered DURING the mission. Think of it as the Wizards sneaking off into a back room to copy it before they hand it over to the Pathfinder Society for their reward money.
If, like you said, a BBEG used the scroll but it still appears on the Chronicle sheet, they'd need to buy it before they can copy it.
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If a PC wants to wait until the Chrolicle sheets are passed out -- that is to say, once the battles are over and the loot is sold -- then she can buy the scroll and transfer it into her spellbook.
If she wants to, she can scribe the scroll during the adventure -- let's say there's a four-day trip after Encounter 1 (with wizard and spellbook) into the Aspodell Mountains -- she can scribe the scroll given the right materials, and she doesn't have to spend gold to buy the spells.
In the same way, if your ranger finds a potion in Encounter 2, he can use it during the adventure for free, or he can wait until the adventure is over and buy it.
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Venture-Captain, Massachusetts—Central & West
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If a PC wants to wait until the Chrolicle sheets are passed out -- that is to say, once the battles are over and the loot is sold -- then she can buy the scroll and transfer it into her spellbook.
If she wants to, she can scribe the scroll during the adventure -- let's say there's a four-day trip after Encounter 1 (with wizard and spellbook) into the Aspodell Mountains -- she can scribe the scroll given the right materials, and she doesn't have to spend gold to buy the spells.
In the same way, if your ranger finds a potion in Encounter 2, he can use it during the adventure for free, or he can wait until the adventure is over and buy it.
Not quite. The FAQ states that Wizards (and other classes that can learn from scrolls) are the exception to that rule.
...
The wizard only needs to spend the time, succeed on the appropriate checks, and spend the amount of gold listed on the table on page 219 of the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook. Keep in mind that the process of copying a spell from a magic scroll into a wizard’s spellbook removes the spell from the copied scroll, turning it into a blank piece of normal parchment. The normal rules for finding items during the course of a scenario are that they can be used during the scenario but must be purchased after the scenario in order to be kept. This clarification for wizards and their spellbooks is the singular exception to the gear rules.
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EDIT: Now that I read that over and over again, that is so ambiguous that I now understand the confusion. o.o
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Venture-Captain, Massachusetts—Central & West
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But all that has to happen entirely before the Chronicle is awarded. A PC can't end an adventure, use the reward money to buy special inks, rise in level, and then copy a spell "before" turning it in.
I agree it should happen before the Chronicle sheets are passed out. But I think it can happen between defeat of BBEG and wrap up of mission. After re-reading it, I think I misunderstood your post.
Sorry about that. *shuffles off to get something caffeinated*
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Venture-Captain, Massachusetts—Central & West
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Note the rule only applies to Wizards and not other classes with spellbooks.states that Wizards (and other classes that can learn from scrolls) are the exception to that rule.
Hrm. Yes, you are right. I read into that sentence too much. Well, I'm just a big bundle of Wrong and Fail today. I'm going to take a nap or something at work.
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From the FAQ (emphasis mine)
Pages 219–220 in the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook discuss how to handle a wizard’s spellbook, but Pathfinder Society makes one adjustment to these rules: a wizard does not have to purchase a scroll found during the course of a scenario in order to copy that scroll into her spellbook. NOTE: There is no time limit listed for this. Wizards may copy any scroll they've ever found in a scenario into their spell book. This is the special wizard scribing rule. The wizard only needs to spend the time, succeed on the appropriate checks, and spend the amount of gold listed on the table on page 219 of the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook. Keep in mind that the process of copying a spell from a magic scroll into a wizard’s spellbook removes the spell from the copied scroll, turning it into a blank piece of normal parchment. The normal rules for finding items during the course of a scenario are that they can be used during the scenario but must be purchased after the scenario in order to be kept. This clarification for wizards and their spellbooks is the singular exception to the gear rules. ...(cut out non wizard bits)... If you don't find a scroll of a given spell during the course of an adventure, you have to buy the scroll to learn it. An NPC isn't just going to give you access to his spells for free, and purchasing a scroll of that spell represents the cost of gaining access to his spellbook. Any spell or formula learned must be accounted for on a scenario's Chronicle sheet in the "Conditions Gained" section.
Wizards can copy into their book any scroll they've ever found. Other classes must do it during the scenario to avoid having to buy the scroll. This was clarified in an old Joshua Frost post who said just because the expection was already made for wizards did not mean he wanted to extend it for all spellbook using classes. I'm trying to find the old post (not that it means anything).
This is a rule that should perhaps be looked at.
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From the FAQ (emphasis mine)
** spoiler omitted **
Wizards can copy into their book any scroll they've ever found. Other classes must do it during the scenario to avoid having to buy the scroll. This was clarified in an old Joshua Frost post who said just because the expection was already made for wizards did not mean he wanted to extend it for all spellbook using classes. I'm trying to find the old post (not that it...
I see more confusion..
Though it does leave out the other classes that can add spells from scrolls, (That will need to be addressed by Mike) Wizards Still have to do so during the scenario to avoid having to buy the scroll.
All that FAQ is stating, is that once it is in the spellbook they don't have to purchase the scroll to keep it in the spellbook after the scenario is over.
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From the FAQ (emphasis mine)
** spoiler omitted **
Wizards can copy into their book any scroll they've ever found. Other classes must do it during the scenario to avoid having to buy the scroll. This was clarified in an old Joshua Frost post who said just because the expection was already made for wizards did not mean he wanted to extend it for all spellbook using classes. I'm trying to find the old post (not that it...
I see more confusion..
Though it does leave out the other classes that can add spells from scrolls, (That will need to be addressed by Mike) Wizards Still have to do so during the scenario to avoid having to buy the scroll.
All that FAQ is stating, is that once it is in the spellbook they don't have to purchase the scroll to keep it in the spellbook after the scenario is over.
You seem to be saying that only wizards can copy found scrolls during a scenario and not pay for the scroll and that alchemists, witches etc have to pay for the scroll at the end of the adventure?
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You seem to be saying that only wizards can copy found scrolls during a scenario and not pay for the scroll and that alchemists, witches etc have to pay for the scroll at the end of the adventure?
I thought that was what you were saying? I was correcting you to point out, it needs to be done during the scenario, you seemed to point out it could be done after the scenario is over and everyone went home.
Though there is an issue with witches and alchemists, since they are not mentioned, but that is most likely due to the FAQ not being updated, Mike will have to Update it, since I am sure it is meant for other classes that can add spell from scrolls, to be able to do so during the scenario with out having to buy the scroll.
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I'm saying that wizards can scribe the scroll at any time without having to pay for them.
While other classes can only avoid paying for the scrolls by scribing them during the adventure.
Ok, you did say what I thought you Said...
You are incorrect.
All with "spellbooks" need to add the scroll during the scenario to avoid having to pay for it.
You are reading the FAQ incorrectly, though I can see why with your note.
The FAQ is only clarifying that you don't have to pay the cost of the scroll to keep it in your spellbook, not that you can add it to your spellbook once the scenario is over without buying the scroll.
The idea is that you can Use scrolls (other found consumables as well) during the course of the scenario without having to buy them at the end . Normally though if you want to keep consumables you would have to buy them afterwards, the exception using scrolls to add to your spellbook, you can keep it in your spellbook without buying the scroll, that does not change the rule that it needs to be used during the scenario.
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You are saying I am needing to take game time, table time at a Con, to review scrolls captured, review all combat equipment carried on each NPC, so that players with Book Class PCs can decide if they wish to scribe them?
Captured a Darkvision scroll. Wait, was it pre-used by the NPC? if so, was this one an extra? Did he have two? Witch, Wizard, Alchemist all need to stop playing to pull out thier books and see if it appears on thier list. Do they have the money to add it? This is just what my game needs, more bookkeeping in the middle of the game. "How much time does it take to add it to my book/familiar? We need to break here and take two hours - I'm not going to get this chance after the BBE falls, the scenario ends then and I want this added to my book."
I think I'm just going to assume all scrolls are used from now on. If you want the spell, you have to buy it.
For that last sentence, no. Just no.
1) Whenever the PCs find useful stuff on an opponent, they should get theinformation on what it is. That falls under the normal rules for Spellcraft, Read Magic, and other such information gathering.
2) You, as GM, always have to track your NPCs' resources used. Doesn't matter if it is the scroll of Flaming Sphere used by the enemy sorcerer, or the 20 arrows used by the archer, you have to track them so that you, just like your players, abide by the rules. If that archer fires a 21st arrow, without having a second quiver of arrows, you are making changes to the scenario.
3) You can still allow the players to do the scribing at the end, after the BBEG is defeated, as part of the time required (off-stage) to get back from wherever they fought the BBEG and when they report in to the Pathfinder Society.
4) Just like Day Job rolls, GMs don't get anything that requires making a roll to determine success or failure, even if a T10 would be successful. Since the GMPC always gets full gold & PP, and has no expenses from the scenario, either consumables or bribes/inn stays or whatever, paying for a scroll or two shouldn't be a big deal.
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sigh... not when you fill out the Chronical.
More importantly, not after you filled out the chronicle went home then showed up for the next game.
You can still have the Wizards "In game" doing their thing while you are filling out the chronicles.
That is normally how I do it.
After the scenario has succeeded and they got their thanks from the Pathfinder Society, the wizard goes off to add the spells to his spell book.
All the while other players are rolling day Jobs (Wizard can to) while I am filling out chronicles.
Sometime they find time during the story, but most of the time it is after they succeeded.
There are a small hand full of scenarios this can't be done it.
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Yeah ... I'm agreeing with Mike Linder here.
I think that it comes down to when a GM says the scenario is "over". If the player leaves the table, that's "after" the game. But, if the DM is willing to hang out a bit, watch rolls, what have you ... I think that it's easily within the bounds of the scenario, even if it's after the last boss fight.
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We want all of our Pathfinders to be as prepared as possible before their next adventure for us. Besides, Kreighton's vault is overflowing -- something we might need to remedy at the Grand Convocation...hmmmm... Anyways, ill prepared adventurers aren't able to bring more cool items.....err....needed research back to our hold.
So, after you have finished your adventure and before you report your adventures, please feel free to take the necessary steps to scribe a scroll to a spelbook, commit it to your familiars, memory, scribe it into your alchemical book, or what have you. Just remember to have the proper supply of writing utensils, ink, etc... for the job.
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We want all of our Pathfinders to be as prepared as possible before their next adventure for us. Besides, Kreighton's vault is overflowing -- something we might need to remedy at the Grand Convocation...hmmmm... Anyways, ill prepared adventurers aren't able to bring more cool items.....err....needed research back to our hold.
So, after you have finished your adventure and before you report your adventures, please feel free to take the necessary steps to scribe a scroll to a spelbook, commit it to your familiars, memory, scribe it into your alchemical book, or what have you. Just remember to have the proper supply of writing utensils, ink, etc... for the job.
Glad the Decemvirate took my advice.
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I don't think anyone who has read this thread should be allowing that though, given the comments from Josh Frost linked above. When the intent of a rule has been plainly stated, even if only in a non-binding forum post, GMs should follow that once they are aware of it imo.
You all missed the most important part of that post by Josh.
Dragnmoon is correct.
I can find plenty of examples like that
Dragnmoon is correct.
Dragnmoon is correct.
I would call that binding ;)
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I don't think anyone who has read this thread should be allowing that though, given the comments from Josh Frost linked above. When the intent of a rule has been plainly stated, even if only in a non-binding forum post, GMs should follow that once they are aware of it imo.You all missed the most important part of that post by Josh.
Dragnmoon is correct.I can find plenty of examples like that
Dragnmoon is correct.Dragnmoon is correct.I would call that binding ;)
How many times is a broken clock right in a week?
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Fourteen.
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But where does he get his salsa from??
"NEW YORK CITY??"
