I have access to get 2 pouches of dust of dryness and I and my friends are about to attack the Stag Lord in the Stolen Lands (Kingmaker) if I were to absorb these 100 gallons of water and then fling the pellets.. what sort of effects could one expect?
Obviously mass confusion and some bull-rushing type effects from the direction of the exploding pellet but what if thrown into the courtyard of keep? Being smashed into the wall by a tidal flood of water would seem to cause some substantial damage?
How would you rule this?
maybe a rounds of the same effect as Geyser on the Decanter of endless water? for all squares in say... 20'radius of the burst??
This has been covered in previous threads and sadly will not work out the way you are hoping.
100 gallons of water isn't nearly as much as it sounds. A five foot cube is 125 cubic feet. According to the "create water" spell, 1 cubic foot holds 8 gallons of water. 100 gallons of water would be 12.5 cubic feet of water, or exactly 1/10 of the volume of a five foot cube. Spread across a 20' square that's 400 sq feet, which would mean less than half an inch of water in those squares.
So it would be sort of like tossing some big-ass water balloons. It might create a nice wet T-Shirt effect. But not much more.
dammit. Are we sure? I've had a 40 gallon tank burst and it would have taken out a body or two if they were close
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well it says the decanter itself can do 1d4 so i guess that might be like getting hit by a firehose round by round.
dammit. Are we sure? I've had a 40 gallon tank burst and it would have taken out a body or two if they were close
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Again, going by RAW, a gallon of water weighs about 8 pounds. So 100 gallons of water weighs 800 pounds, which is about the weight of your average horse. Yeah, if you got hit by a horse flung in your direction, that would hurt. But water isn't solid. And you are assuming it flies in all directions. If you even just break it down into the 8 directions of the battle grid, then it's only 100 pounds going in each direction, and only for a very short distance before it thins out so much that it's just a bit of water splashed on you.
If you were to somehow make it burst right on top of a single medium sized character, it might be reasonable to make a bull rush check to push the character one square. But that's about all I'd be willing to go as a GM based on what you are describing here.
It really would be like a big water balloon.
Well, the water still weighs 800 pounds, but whether it retains any momentum is a question. Water carries a lot of force with it, a few inches moving fast can knock you over or make you lose your footing.
I'd say look at the tanglefoot bag, but it knocks them prone instead.
Cheaper to get tanglefoots then :)
Well, the water still weighs 800 pounds, but whether it retains any momentum is a question. Water carries a lot of force with it, a few inches moving fast can knock you over or make you lose your footing.
I'd say look at the tanglefoot bag, but it knocks them prone instead.
I do a lot of fishing in fast moving rivers. A "few inches moving fast" would have to be moving awful dang fast to knock someone prone.
Moving around in mossy, slippery rivers with currents of up to 10-12 mph I typically don't have to break out my balance stick until the water is at least 2/3 of the way up my shin, and I don't really usually worry until it reaches my knees.
That's a lot of water.
100 gallons of water is essentially 2 bathtubs full. Not that impressive when you think of the amount in something you can easily imagine.
Yup, but imagine if it wasn't moving and then suddenly moved, or stopped, etc. I don't think it should be major. CMB +4, or a DC 12 Reflex save. For the cost and limited use, that power level won't break a game while still letting it have some sort of effect.
remember the inverse square law. At double the distance away, the force will only be a quarter as strong, as the water disperses. 100 gallons right next to you is strong, but even a few feet away, and.... not as much.
A 100 gallons of water will get you... soaked to the skin! I recently had, like, a thousand gallons of water 'suddenly' appear in my kitchen. 100 gallons is nothing. :)
Oh, how I would have fun...
By my calculations, getting hit by 100 gallons of water would involve a Trip attack at CMB +6.
Why? According to the rules, a 400lb Gorilla has CMB +5, and a 1200lb Gorilla has CMB +8, so being hit by the proverbial 800lb Gorilla would split the difference (normal rounding rules) to +6.
Doesnt quite work out that way Chemlak. 800lbs of water is not going to focus all of that force into a point about 1foot square (the size of the gorilla's hand). Unless it is being shot out as a jet. The gorilla can also grab and pull, the water cannot.
When this thread began I started running calculations about how much the force of water was if it were striking a person standing (facing up or downstream) 2 feet deep in water if the river had 1500CFS, was 100feet wide with an 8foot deep 20foot wide main channel...etc. I realized I just do not have enough hydrodynamics knowledge to properly figure it out.
However, I did realize that the CFS through a 2foot deep, 2foot wide, 1foot slice (4cubic feet) of the river is about 12.5CFS which amounts to a sustained 100gallons/second (sheesh, that amount was unexpected). Now, not all of that water is striking the person but then again neither is the effect we are talking about.
Note: The width of the river and channel depth are approximates from the local river while the floating speed is current. I increased the effect of the main channel by double (the river is about 2x as fast in the main channel) which decreased its effect in the 2foot deep portion. Note: if the river is 3x as fast the amount of water going through the person's space drops to 75gal/second.
The summary: if a man can stand in a river and not be pushed down I doubt 100gallons can do so reliably. CMB for a trip attack sure. How much? Less than the 800lb gorilla.
- Gauss
Great Wolf Lodge Big Bucket of Water
Reminds me of a tamer version the hurricane deck at niagra. That was fun! I stood right in the water blast.
- Gauss
Doesnt quite work out that way Chemlak. 800lbs of water is not going to focus all of that force into a point about 1foot square (the size of the gorilla's hand). Unless it is being shot out as a jet. The gorilla can also grab and pull, the water cannot.
When this thread began I started running calculations about how much the force of water was if it were striking a person standing (facing up or downstream) 2 feet deep in water if the river had 1500CFS, was 100feet wide with an 8foot deep 20foot wide main channel...etc. I realized I just do not have enough hydrodynamics knowledge to properly figure it out.
However, I did realize that the CFS through a 2foot deep, 2foot wide, 1foot slice (4cubic feet) of the river is about 12.5CFS which amounts to a sustained 100gallons/second (sheesh, that amount was unexpected). Now, not all of that water is striking the person but then again neither is the effect we are talking about.
Note: The width of the river and channel depth are approximates from the local river while the floating speed is current. I increased the effect of the main channel by double (the river is about 2x as fast in the main channel) which decreased its effect in the 2foot deep portion. Note: if the river is 3x as fast the amount of water going through the person's space drops to 75gal/second.
The summary: if a man can stand in a river and not be pushed down I doubt 100gallons can do so reliably. CMB for a trip attack sure. How much? Less than the 800lb gorilla.
- Gauss
I was being slightly facetious, Gauss, playing on the 800lb weight and the common term "800lb gorilla".
My post was very much along the lines of "here's a not-too excessive ballpark that you might want to use".
Thank you for the detailed analysis, though - I vastly appreciate it. I'm not about to pull out some 20-year-old physics textbooks and do a full hydrodynamic work-up on the problem, especially for a game.
I think we can safely say that the +6 I produced as an "on the fly" figure represents the upper bounds of the problem.
Chemlak, no worries. I wasn't about to do that either. Hehehe. I do have those books around here somewhere too.
- Gauss
I think we can safely say that the +6 I produced as an "on the fly" figure...
... yeah, maybe an EXTREME upper bound, as in a completely implausible and unsupportable upper bound.
100 gallons of water is just not that much water. There is also no motive force involved, the water does not shoot out as if from a firehose. It simply appears.
Of course GMs can rule how they like, but interpreting RAW on this the most likely result from tossing the dust packets will be very much comparable to getting hit by a big water balloon. At the very most it MIGHT have an impact on a single medium sized or smaller target. But that's even pushing it.
The most probable result if thrown at a group of characters is a lot of wet T-shirts.
Just curious but what do you think would be the effect if you hit someone trying to cast a spell with this?
Well, there's RAW and there's what I think.
By RAW it would be a concentration check, but not a very hard one since the water would do little if any damage.
I would probably add some circumstance bonus to the concentration check since even though getting hit with a water balloon might not do much actual damage, it would certainly be a major distraction...
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Just curious but what do you think would be the effect if you hit someone trying to cast a spell with this?Well, there's RAW and there's what I think.
By RAW it would be a concentration check, but not a very hard one since the water would do little if any damage.
I would probably add some circumstance bonus to the concentration check since even though getting hit with a water balloon might not do much actual damage, it would certainly be a major distraction...
I would go off of the chart in the book:
Violent motion while casting 15 + spell level
Extremely violent motion while casting 20 + spell level
Wind with rain or sleet while casting 5 + spell level
Wind with hail and debris while casting 10 + spell level
So, wind with rain or sleet is only 5+SL, add hail and debris and it only goes to 10+SL, I could see using either of these depending on if it was a direct hit (10+SL) or a "splash" from a near hit (5+sL) (as a splash weapon).
Just curious but what do you think would be the effect if you hit someone trying to cast a spell with this?Well, there's RAW and there's what I think.
By RAW it would be a concentration check, but not a very hard one since the water would do little if any damage.
I would probably add some circumstance bonus to the concentration check since even though getting hit with a water balloon might not do much actual damage, it would certainly be a major distraction...
I would go off of the chart in the book:
Violent motion while casting 15 + spell level
Extremely violent motion while casting 20 + spell level
Wind with rain or sleet while casting 5 + spell level
Wind with hail and debris while casting 10 + spell levelSo, wind with rain or sleet is only 5+SL, add hail and debris and it only goes to 10+SL, I could see using either of these depending on if it was a direct hit (10+SL) or a "splash" from a near hit (5+sL) (as a splash weapon).
Yeah, that's totally reasonable.