Kitsune Magic and Fast Shifter (Advanced Race Guide)

[Yuki Hyou]

Hi,

According to HeroLab, when building a Kitsune with the Fast Shifter alternate racial trait, they are still able to cast Dancing Lights (it's listed separately to the Kitsune Magic ability itself)

Just wanted to clarify that the replacement of the "Kitsune Magic (Ex/Sp)" ability with an alternate trait should remove the ability to cast Dancing Lights before I submit a bug report to Lone Wolf.

Bonus question:
If Dancing Lights is removed as above, should the Magical Tail feat have Kitsune Magic as a prerequisite?

[Skylancer4]

Yes the alternate trait should remove the ability to cast Dancing Lights 3xday (of Kitsune who have an 11+ Cha) as well as the DC bump of charm spells cast. They probably have it linked to the Cha stat instead of the racial traits (or linked to both).

No, the SLA provided by the Magical Tail feat is/are (depending how many times you take the feat) completely seperate.

[Yuki Hyou]

Skylancer4 wrote:

Yes the alternate trait should remove the ability to cast Dancing Lights 3xday (of Kitsune who have an 11+ Cha) as well as the DC bump of charm spells cast. They probably have it linked to the Cha stat instead of the racial traits (or linked to both).

Thanks, I have emailed Lone Wolf regarding this.

Skylancer4 wrote:

No, the SLA provided by the Magical Tail feat is/are (depending how many times you take the feat) completely seperate.

I just felt that they were linked (RP-wise at least) to the magical ability of the race and thus would be lost if you swapped out that ability. Also, thinking further on it, there could be an additional issue with retraining ...

If you took the Magical Tail feat twice to gain both disguise self and charm person, then retrained the first instance of that feat - what would happen? (I would hope most GMs would prevent this ever being an issue, but still!) Additionally, what if you then (at some later level) took Magical Tail again - would you get disguise self back, or would you move onto misdirection?

[cartmanbeck]

Yuki Hyou wrote:

Skylancer4 wrote:

Yes the alternate trait should remove the ability to cast Dancing Lights 3xday (of Kitsune who have an 11+ Cha) as well as the DC bump of charm spells cast. They probably have it linked to the Cha stat instead of the racial traits (or linked to both).

Thanks, I have emailed Lone Wolf regarding this.

Skylancer4 wrote:

No, the SLA provided by the Magical Tail feat is/are (depending how many times you take the feat) completely seperate.

I just felt that they were linked (RP-wise at least) to the magical ability of the race and thus would be lost if you swapped out that ability. Also, thinking further on it, there could be an additional issue with retraining ...

If you took the Magical Tail feat twice to gain both disguise self and charm person, then retrained the first instance of that feat - what would happen? (I would hope most GMs would prevent this ever being an issue, but still!) Additionally, what if you then (at some later level) took Magical Tail again - would you get disguise self back, or would you move onto misdirection?

I don't think any character has the ability to re-train feats gained from gaining levels, the only case of re-training of feats that I know of is fighter bonus feats, and those can only be chosen from combat feats so you'd never have the issue of dealing with the Magical Tail feat.

Is there some class ability that lets you re-train any of your feats?

[Yuki Hyou]

cartmanbeck wrote:

Is there some class ability that lets you re-train any of your feats?

TBH, I was basing this off a (possibly incorrect) recollection of the possibility of changing out parts of a character when a new rulebook is released, in the event that those items fit the character better than any previously existing items did. Searching for this information just now has not yielded any results, so I'm going to assume I was wrong.

[cartmanbeck]

Yuki Hyou wrote:

cartmanbeck wrote:

Is there some class ability that lets you re-train any of your feats?

TBH, I was basing this off a (possibly incorrect) recollection of the possibility of changing out parts of a character when a new rulebook is released, in the event that those items fit the character better than any previously existing items did. Searching for this information just now has not yielded any results, so I'm going to assume I was wrong.

Nope, unless your DM allows it, there's no such rule.

[Matrixryu]

Yuki Hyou wrote:

If you took the Magical Tail feat twice to gain both disguise self and charm person, then retrained the first instance of that feat - what would happen? (I would hope most GMs would prevent this ever being an issue, but still!) Additionally, what if you then (at some later level) took Magical Tail again - would you get disguise self back, or would you move onto misdirection?

If your GM allows you to 'retrain' feats, I think the spells you would gain from Magical Tail would get 'reset' so that you have the proper spell-like abilities for the number of feats you have.

[Laucian Nailo]

Matrixryu wrote:

Yuki Hyou wrote:

If you took the Magical Tail feat twice to gain both disguise self and charm person, then retrained the first instance of that feat - what would happen? (I would hope most GMs would prevent this ever being an issue, but still!) Additionally, what if you then (at some later level) took Magical Tail again - would you get disguise self back, or would you move onto misdirection?

If your GM allows you to 'retrain' feats, I think the spells you would gain from Magical Tail would get 'reset' so that you have the proper spell-like abilities for the number of feats you have.

Even if a GM allows feat retraining, which I do, they should not allow you to retain Racial Feats. They are feats based on inherent features of your class, not something that can be trained. As such Magical Tail represents a kitsune's natural growth of their magical nature (read the actual legends of kitsune, they gain tails a their abilities grow), which is not something that can be reversed.