Ooh, an HD sighting!
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I have no idea how stupid you are, aMiB, but here's my policy proposal:
I came up with that all by myself.
I might have cribbed a few ideas...
And the Articles of Confederation failed within a decade. The kind of loose state based confederation couldn't cope with even the kind of isolated agricultural economy they had then. They wanted a weak federal government but couldn't make it work and quickly had to replace it with a much stronger one.
Shays Rebellion in a nutshell.
Founding fathers: This giant government has no right to unfairly impose its will and taxes on us! Down with the government!
Shay: Thats right, your giant federal government has no right to unfairly impose its will and taxes on the only form of wealth we can store and transport, whisky!
Founding fathers: Hey, shut up, we need the money *blam*
Um, I think you're slightly confusing it with The Whiskey Rebellion. But, yeah, pretty much.
EDIT: Pretty much, that is, about the Whiskey Rebellion.
Shay's rebellion was about other stuff.
Um, I think you're slightly confusing it with The Whiskey Rebellion. But, yeah, pretty much.
EDIT: Pretty much, that is, about the Whiskey Rebellion.
Shay's rebellion was about other stuff.
DOH.. sorry. Mornings.
Shay's rebellion
Banker: *poke* Hey government , make those lazy farmers pay their debts.
Government: Lazy farmer, pay your debts. A debt is a matter of honor!
Farmer: Well i WOULD, but someone still hasn't paid me for those 6 farming seasons I spent getting shot at and starving half to death hundreds of miles away from my family in the army...
Government: Shut up. *BLAM*
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People choosing to care for each other is great, being robbed by big brother is not. Making the programs about real food and shelter instead of free fun money is the key as i see it, take the fun out of abusing it and the problem will sort itself out. they want more they can earn it and no one dies in the street. Even if some deserve it.You are completely ignorant of what programs exist, what they do, and who they support and how long. Suffice it to say, no welfare program anywhere has ever made it fun to be poor.
I believe you are fully ignorant to how they use the programs and just how comfy they are on our backs. I grew up poor, scraping to make it without help. they live MUCH better than i did.
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Here's my policy proposal. words words wordsNo, it's not in any sense your policy proposal. It's an abstract of a Heritage Foundation whitepaper! How stupid do you think we are?
The reason that conservative thinktanks push for greater means testing in entitlement programs is because means testing makes programs less popular. I linked a paper earlier that shows the bulk of government aid goes to middle class families: here it is again.
There is no justice from cutting aid to the poor, since the vast majority of government aid or subsidy goes to the middle class or rich (for reasons which are obvious). For the same reason, there's little efficiency to be gained. So what's the goal here, other than pointless cruelty?
e: Link fixed
Government handout should NOT be popular, they should be a last resort. a safety net if you stumble not a cradle to grave way of life. I grew up poor, by many standards i still am, and you can do ok poor if you are not greedy or stupid. And you are right, a LOT of aid goes to people i think make far too much to deserve it. Especially when i can see how much they squander on a daily basis. Our "poor" that need help often live in opulence compared to the real poverty around this world.
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And why do so many here sound like they just hate people with money? why is any success seen as bad?
Its not that success is bad, its that getting rich and then using that wealth to keep getting richer by changing how the government and society works is bad.
To whit...
If you stopped every single incident of welfare fraud how much would your actual taxes go down? You've been driven into a foaming white frenzy at this narrative of welfare cheats taking your money, but you apparently have no problem with no bid contracts, useless wars on behalf of corporations, subsidies for already profitable oil companies to drill our natural resources, and taxing the rich at half the rate that you tax working people (and the republicans want to fix that... by making it 1/4)
Someone goes to med school and busts their hump for 6 years to make 300 grand, GREAT! Someone goes to Bain capitol and drops a suitcase full of cash off at a congressman so that they can keep their 15% tax rates, not so much.
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And why do so many here sound like they just hate people with money? why is any success seen as bad?Its not that success is bad, its that getting rich and then using that wealth to keep getting richer by changing how the government and society works is bad.
To whit...
If you stopped every single incident of welfare fraud how much would your actual taxes go down? You've been driven into a foaming white frenzy at this narrative of welfare cheats taking your money, but you apparently have no problem with no bid contracts, useless wars on behalf of corporations, subsidies for already profitable oil companies to drill our natural resources, and taxing the rich at half the rate that you tax working people (and the republicans want to fix that... by making it 1/4)
Someone goes to med school and busts their hump for 6 years to make 300 grand, GREAT! Someone goes to Bain capitol and drops a suitcase full of cash off at a congressman so that they can keep their 15% tax rates, not so much.
The political corruption of money bothers me too, it is simply not shoved in my face by the masses like welfare is. And the problem is not just who is doing what but how it spreads and what the future will be. Watching my customers i can feel Idiocracy comming true, the common man's absolute degeneration. And it is not just the welfare it is the whole mentality so common among the poor and lower middle class, smoke drink and do drugs, squander every penny and then b*%~% at every bill that comes due. Cry about health care costs that they never saved a penny for and create many of the problems themselves.
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And why do so many here sound like they just hate people with money? why is any success seen as bad?And why do so many here sound like they just hate the poor? Why is poverty always seen as a deserved personal failing?
Often it is, and the life of many poor is a waste. Nothing wrong with not having much, it is the way that so many live that is the problem
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Watching my customers i can feel Idiocracy comming true, the common man's absolute degeneration.
I would suggest that you read more history.
The unwashed masses have always been a pretty degenerate bunch. That's why they're called the "unwashed masses".
Where's Lord Dice?
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"Sire, the peasants are revolting!"Watching my customers i can feel Idiocracy comming true, the common man's absolute degeneration.I would suggest that you read more history.
The unwashed masses have always been a pretty degenerate bunch. That's why they're called the "unwashed masses".
Old world peasants struggled to get by with honest hard work, not potheads scarfing junkfood on someone elses hard work
He's quoting Lord Dice quoting Mel Brooks (I think).
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Often it is, and the life of many poor is a waste. Nothing wrong with not having much, it is the way that so many live that is the problemAnd why do so many here sound like they just hate people with money? why is any success seen as bad?And why do so many here sound like they just hate the poor? Why is poverty always seen as a deserved personal failing?And often the very rich, who have more than they can possibly use, are sociopathic bastards, willing to do anything for more, more, more. As long as they don't have to look at the consequences personally. Murder by Spreadsheet. They do far more damage than than the poor.
It's just harder to see because it's all hidden behind the fancy mansions and profit statements. It doesn't get rubbed in your face like the poor welfare cheats do. Which is the way they want it, of course. They get to keep driving the country into the ground and you keep on blaming welfare.
Note that I mean the very rich here. Not anyone who has any success. The top 0.1% or maybe even less. People who live in a world of mansions, limos, private jets and bodyguards.
You are correct there, but it doesn't excuse anyone else's behavior. and the masses do plenty to drive the culture into the ground if not the economy
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Degeneracy of the Unwashed Masses: A Short Historical Chronicle
Compared to all of these, potheads eating ho-ho's seems pretty tame.
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Poor Marie Antionette offered them cake and they cut her head off!
Monsters!
You are correct there, but it doesn't excuse anyone else's behavior. and the masses do plenty to drive the culture into the ground if not the economyOften it is, and the life of many poor is a waste. Nothing wrong with not having much, it is the way that so many live that is the problemAnd why do so many here sound like they just hate people with money? why is any success seen as bad?And why do so many here sound like they just hate the poor? Why is poverty always seen as a deserved personal failing?And often the very rich, who have more than they can possibly use, are sociopathic bastards, willing to do anything for more, more, more. As long as they don't have to look at the consequences personally. Murder by Spreadsheet. They do far more damage than than the poor.
It's just harder to see because it's all hidden behind the fancy mansions and profit statements. It doesn't get rubbed in your face like the poor welfare cheats do. Which is the way they want it, of course. They get to keep driving the country into the ground and you keep on blaming welfare.
Note that I mean the very rich here. Not anyone who has any success. The top 0.1% or maybe even less. People who live in a world of mansions, limos, private jets and bodyguards.
Here's the thing Andrew: the masses are the culture, in exactly the same way they are the population. I'm sorry if you hate America, man, but you're looking at it. As for the economy, I'm one of the masses; I can only wish we had the power to drive the it anywhere.
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Here's the thing Andrew: the masses are the culture, in exactly the same way they are the population. I'm sorry if you hate America, man, but you're looking at it. As for the economy, I'm one of the masses; I can only wish we had the power to drive the it anywhere.You are correct there, but it doesn't excuse anyone else's behavior. and the masses do plenty to drive the culture into the ground if not the economyOften it is, and the life of many poor is a waste. Nothing wrong with not having much, it is the way that so many live that is the problemAnd why do so many here sound like they just hate people with money? why is any success seen as bad?And why do so many here sound like they just hate the poor? Why is poverty always seen as a deserved personal failing?And often the very rich, who have more than they can possibly use, are sociopathic bastards, willing to do anything for more, more, more. As long as they don't have to look at the consequences personally. Murder by Spreadsheet. They do far more damage than than the poor.
It's just harder to see because it's all hidden behind the fancy mansions and profit statements. It doesn't get rubbed in your face like the poor welfare cheats do. Which is the way they want it, of course. They get to keep driving the country into the ground and you keep on blaming welfare.
Note that I mean the very rich here. Not anyone who has any success. The top 0.1% or maybe even less. People who live in a world of mansions, limos, private jets and bodyguards.
I love america for what it was, what it was meant to be, now i pity it like a dying deranged old dog. I know what it was, what potential it had but now can only wait for the inevitable end
Watching my customers i can feel Idiocracy comming true, the common man's absolute degeneration.I would suggest that you read more history.
The unwashed masses have always been a pretty degenerate bunch. That's why they're called the "unwashed masses".
"Sire, the peasants are revolting!"
Old world peasants struggled to get by with honest hard work, not potheads scarfing junkfood on someone elses hard work
That also has to do with our increased means of production.
In 1870, 70% of the US population was employed in agriculture. It took that much of our population to feed all of us. Now it takes 2-3%.
Most peasants worked hard, because otherwise you starved to death because there wasn't enough food to go around if 70%+ didn't work in agriculture.
Food and wealth has less to do with hard work and more to do with power. Unless you'd like to argue that it's harder work to be a CEO than a coal miner.
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Watching my customers i can feel Idiocracy comming true, the common man's absolute degeneration.I would suggest that you read more history.
The unwashed masses have always been a pretty degenerate bunch. That's why they're called the "unwashed masses".
"Sire, the peasants are revolting!"
Old world peasants struggled to get by with honest hard work, not potheads scarfing junkfood on someone elses hard workThat also has to do with our increased means of production.
In 1870, 70% of the US population was employed in agriculture. It took that much of our population to feed all of us. Now it takes 2-3%.
Most peasants worked hard, because otherwise you starved to death because there wasn't enough food to go around if 70%+ didn't work in agriculture.
Food and wealth has less to do with hard work and more to do with power. Unless you'd like to argue that it's harder work to be a CEO than a coal miner.
Yep, but the coal miner WORKS, works hard to feed his family. Not like so much of what lives in our cities, smoking weed and getting into trouble and letting the government take care of all their needs
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Yes, yes, woe is America. Just accept you're not competent to run a country and let the Motherland take you back. I'm sure England can find some administrators capable of turning you into something useful to Her. Carry on with this wallowing in your misery, colonials. We warned you this would happen, but, oh no, you had to break away from your betters.
Tally-ho. Pip, pip.
Captain Brittannica, I've always taken a laissez-faire approach to running the goblin kennels, but you sound like just the guy to "administer" them.
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Yep, but the coal miner WORKS, works hard to feed his family. Not like so much of what lives in our cities, smoking weed and getting into trouble and letting the government take care of all their needs
That also has to do with our increased means of production.In 1870, 70% of the US population was employed in agriculture. It took that much of our population to feed all of us. Now it takes 2-3%.
Most peasants worked hard, because otherwise you starved to death because there wasn't enough food to go around if 70%+ didn't work in agriculture.
Food and wealth has less to do with hard work and more to do with power. Unless you'd like to argue that it's harder work to be a CEO than a coal miner.
Peasants who didn't work starved. Peasants who didn't have land to work also starved.
Coal miners work hard, until the old mine is replaced by a strip mining operation that does far more environmental damage and uses far less workers.
What's the unemployment rate in our cities? It that really because they're all lazy and want to live on the dole? Or because there aren't jobs to be found?
We have illegals a plenty working fields, cleaning etc. Jobs lazy ass americans are being allowed to refuse. Flush out the illegals and get americans to work.
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Yes, yes, woe is America. Just accept you're not competent to run a country and let the Motherland take you back. I'm sure England can find some administrators capable of turning you into something useful to Her. Carry on with this wallowing in your misery, colonials. We warned you this would happen, but, oh no, you had to break away from your betters.
Tally-ho. Pip, pip.
lol, have you seen england? posably worse than what i say agianst our problems. Plus the euro zone nonsense to take them down even if they try to get things right.
If that's the case, then why are you even here opining? Not trying to be a jerk, just wondering.
I love america for what it was, what it was meant to be, now i pity it like a dying deranged old dog. I know what it was, what potential it had but now can only wait for the inevitable endHere's the thing Andrew: the masses are the culture, in exactly the same way they are the population. I'm sorry if you hate America, man, but you're looking at it. As for the economy, I'm one of the masses; I can only wish we had the power to drive the it anywhere.You are correct there, but it doesn't excuse anyone else's behavior. and the masses do plenty to drive the culture into the ground if not the economyOften it is, and the life of many poor is a waste. Nothing wrong with not having much, it is the way that so many live that is the problemAnd why do so many here sound like they just hate people with money? why is any success seen as bad?And why do so many here sound like they just hate the poor? Why is poverty always seen as a deserved personal failing?And often the very rich, who have more than they can possibly use, are sociopathic bastards, willing to do anything for more, more, more. As long as they don't have to look at the consequences personally. Murder by Spreadsheet. They do far more damage than than the poor.
It's just harder to see because it's all hidden behind the fancy mansions and profit statements. It doesn't get rubbed in your face like the poor welfare cheats do. Which is the way they want it, of course. They get to keep driving the country into the ground and you keep on blaming welfare.
Note that I mean the very rich here. Not anyone who has any success. The top 0.1% or maybe even less. People who live in a world of mansions, limos, private jets and bodyguards.
No, it's not in any sense your policy proposal. It's an abstract of a Heritage Foundation whitepaper! How stupid do you think we are?
The reason that conservative thinktanks push for greater means testing in entitlement programs is because means testing makes programs less popular. I linked a paper earlier that shows the bulk of government aid goes to middle class families: here it is again.
There is no justice from cutting aid to the poor, since the vast majority of government aid or subsidy goes to the middle class or rich (for reasons which are obvious). For the same reason, there's little efficiency to be gained. So what's the goal here, other than pointless cruelty?
I actually did come up with my facts, figures, and ideas separately. Mine are pulled from a policy paper that I did last year. I'm glad to see that someone else is on the right track as well. You'll note that a lot of my figures are slightly different, but the gist looks to be overall the same.
The link you supplied is about Medicare and Social Security, which vastly pushes benefits upwards. Considering that the budget for each of those two programs are each greater than the combined budget of welfare programs, it's no surprise that benefits appear skewed. The rest of the benefits going to the middle and upper classes are in the form of reduced taxes. Now, perhaps it's just me, but I don't consider paying less of my earned income to the government to be a benefit. Unlike your source, I also don't consider Unemployment Insurance to be "welfare". I would prefer it if they showed their work or shown a breakdown of each individual program rather than the entire thing taken together. I suspect that you'd see a vastly different layout had they done so. The Heritage Foundation source and CBPP source are comparing apples to a grocery store.
Interestingly, if you go to their source, the Census report on poverty, head over to Table 4 of the 2011 report. You'll see that those living in poverty who did not work at least 1 week outnumber (18.9M) those who worked less than full-time (8M) and those who worked full-time (2.6M) combined. I'm not sure how they would have come to their conclusion with this information, but I'd love to see their work.
I'm not sure why you'd push for less efficiency in our delivery. Wouldn't you want to know that our tax dollars are going to the correct recipients? My proposal, which is not actually present in this Heritage Foundation paper, wrings a lot of efficiency by eliminating redundancy. I'm not sure how you would qualify that as cruelty, except that it stops giving an incentive to not work and have more babies.
I love america for what it was, what it was meant to be, now i pity it like a dying deranged old dog. I know what it was, what potential it had but now can only wait for the inevitable end
May I ask what decade or year you're talking about?
lol, have you seen england? posably worse than what i say agianst our problems. Plus the euro zone nonsense to take them down even if they try to get things right.Yes, yes, woe is America. Just accept you're not competent to run a country and let the Motherland take you back. I'm sure England can find some administrators capable of turning you into something useful to Her. Carry on with this wallowing in your misery, colonials. We warned you this would happen, but, oh no, you had to break away from your betters.
Tally-ho. Pip, pip.
Yes, I see England on a regular basis, old boy. Every time I look out my window I see the majestic city of London. Far superior to the copies you colonials tried to make. America is ok to visit, but it's a horrible place to live. I mean, it's full of...Americans. How much more ghastly could it be?
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I love america for what it was, what it was meant to be, now i pity it like a dying deranged old dog. I know what it was, what potential it had but now can only wait for the inevitable endMay I ask what decade or year you're talking about?
All of them, when americans worked hard and strove to do bigger and better, not waste and expect to take from others. We have always been a people to value hard work, what happened?
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We have illegals a plenty working fields, cleaning etc. Jobs lazy ass americans are being allowed to refuse. Flush out the illegals and get americans to work.Often for less than minimum wage and under illegal conditions because they can't complain without the risk of being deported.
And how, exactly, do you plan on deporting millions of undocumented people?
Easy, harsh punishment to anyone that houses or employs them. They will deport themselves.
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All of them, when americans worked hard and strove to do bigger and better, not waste and expect to take from others. We have always been a people to value hard work, what happened?I love america for what it was, what it was meant to be, now i pity it like a dying deranged old dog. I know what it was, what potential it had but now can only wait for the inevitable endMay I ask what decade or year you're talking about?
Considering that our entire continent was taken from others, I dont know which time period you talk about.
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All of them, when americans worked hard
Which Americans? The ones like a majority of the founding fathers who got rich owning slaves and having them do all the work?
When weren't we taking from others? Those hard working farmers had to drive the indians off the land before they could farm it.
What happened is that hard work STOPPED WORKING as soon as we had automated factory systems and or cheaper foreign labor. You can't just say "hey you go work in a factory" because there aren't that many jobs there anymore. You can't just say "hey you go farm some land" because its all already being farmed. The least troublesome, and ironically the cheapest way of dealing with someone that doesn't want to or can't find work is just to pay them: its cheaper than prison.
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Now, if you're working hard and your standard of living is at or below that of someone not working at all, doesn't that suggest that you're being underpaid?
All of them, when americans worked hardWhich Americans? The ones like a majority of the founding fathers who got rich owning slaves and having them do all the work?
When weren't we taking from others? Those hard working farmers had to drive the indians off the land before they could farm it.
What happened is that hard work STOPPED WORKING as soon as we had automated factory systems and or cheaper foreign labor. You can't just say "hey you go work in a factory" because there aren't that many jobs there anymore. You can't just say "hey you go farm some land" because its all already being farmed. The least troublesome, and ironically the cheapest way of dealing with someone that doesn't want to or can't find work is just to pay them: its cheaper than prison.
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Now, if you're working hard and your standard of living is at or below that of someone not working at all, doesn't that suggest that you're being underpaid?
If only there was some sort of government aid for people in that position...
All of them, when americans worked hardWhich Americans? The ones like a majority of the founding fathers who got rich owning slaves and having them do all the work?
When weren't we taking from others? Those hard working farmers had to drive the indians off the land before they could farm it.
What happened is that hard work STOPPED WORKING as soon as we had automated factory systems and or cheaper foreign labor. You can't just say "hey you go work in a factory" because there aren't that many jobs there anymore. You can't just say "hey you go farm some land" because its all already being farmed. The least troublesome, and ironically the cheapest way of dealing with someone that doesn't want to or can't find work is just to pay them: its cheaper than prison.
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Now, if you're working hard and your standard of living is at or below that of someone not working at all, doesn't that suggest that you're being underpaid?
Well put.
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Considering that our entire continent was taken from others, I dont know which time period you talk about.All of them, when americans worked hard and strove to do bigger and better, not waste and expect to take from others. We have always been a people to value hard work, what happened?I love america for what it was, what it was meant to be, now i pity it like a dying deranged old dog. I know what it was, what potential it had but now can only wait for the inevitable endMay I ask what decade or year you're talking about?
Taken from others that took it from others, like every land