Whip it good.

[Kazarath]

I've wanted to make a whip-using character ever since I saw the Whip Mastery feat tree in UC. Its trickier then I that though. The whip's damage is far too minimal for a damage build, so its best use would be its trip and disarm features (plus grapple once you get greater whip mastery). Problem is, unless you're fighting nothing but medium (or smaller) humanoids, your CMB is going to pale in comparison to most foes. The most commonly used monsters (at least in my experience) are either large sized with a high strength, multi-legged, or both.

My challenge to the community is this, can you make a whip-using character that can still be of use even at higher levels?

[Quatar]

Bards make good support characters, and with a whip and/or a net they have some more battlefield control options.

Yes later tripping in general becomes less reliable, once we have flying enemies and so.

You can TWF with whips too, or use them in both hands for more strength/power attack damage.

[Saint Caleth]

A Magus can make good use of a whip to deliver spells. Spire Defender or Kensai will get you proficiency in the whip, or you can be a half-elf.

[pobbes]

A monk maneuver master with a whip could be pretty awesome. However, he would still only be ok against larger creatures. I don't know how to overcome the size/leg bonus....

[Dreaming Psion]

Negative energy channeling cleric plus channel smite? Throw in versatile channeling if you need a cleric who channels positive energy.

[Crysknife]

Lore warden?

[Alex Draconis]

Hmm there's a couple good ideas I hadn't considered. Good thread as I've thought about the same.

[blackbloodtroll]

Cleric/Maneuver Master Monk with the Guided Hand feat?

[Avenger]

Whip fighter. You can wield it with two hands and hit real hard with power atk and high str since it's a one handed melee weapon :P

[Galnörag]

Avenger wrote:

Whip fighter. You can wield it with two hands and hit real hard with power atk and high str since it's a one handed melee weapon :P

Right here is a pretty high damage build, especially coupled with whirlwind attack. The damage die just becomes something your role indecently. With lunge in the mix and two weapon rend you can spread out some scary damage. Tripping Strike as a critical feat for insult...

Lots of good threads on the boards on whip builds.

[Galnörag]

Oh, inquisitor(Calistra)/Fighter build works okay as well.

[Scarymike]

The biggest problem with a lot of these ideas is the feat tax issue. Only the fighter can really pull this off. It takes a ton of feats to use the whip properly.

I did a Kensai whip magus and while fun, it was just not very optimized.

I do love the flavor of whip, but it really has to be your sole focus in order to pull off well.

exotic weapon prof: whip
weapon focus: whip
Whip Mastery
Improved Whip mastery (bab +5 prereq)
Greater Whip Mastery

plus the feats to make it hit hard (power attack and such), OR the feats to make it CMB focused (improved trip, dirty trick, etc... )

[Robbgobb]

I am still new and don't know much about the maneuvers. Very interested in a cool build for this.

Thinking Human Kensai for a PFS build
STR: 10 DEX: 18 CON: 14 INT: 15 WIS: 10 CHA: 8

Trip build
Kensai weapon choice Whip
Kensai Bonus Feat: Weapon Focus Whip
1st level Feat: Weapon Finesse
Human Bonus Feat: Combat Expertise
3rd level Feat: Improved Trip
Magus Arcana: Manuveur Mastery Trip
5th level Feat: Butterfly's Sting
5th level Bonus Feat: Fury's Fall
Magus Arcana: Arcane Accuracy
7th level Feat: Whip Mastery
9th level Feat: Fury's Snare
Magus Arcana: Dispelling Strike
11th level Feat: Critical Focus
11th level bonus Feat: Bleeding Critical
Magus Arcana: Critical Strike

Might not be the best but looks interesting if got a good group to play with. Figure most spells would be something other than touch spells. I think I would like to see it played but don't think it would fit who I am. I would like to be a human Magus using a whip but not a Kensai. Thinking I would rather go for Spell Focus and Spell Specialization (Shocking Grasp) at 1st then pick up Exotic Weapon Prof. Whip at 3rd to lead to Whip Mastery and Weapon Focus. From there and with Arcana try and work on using reach to deliver touch spells hopefully from a safe distance.

[kinevon]

Just a couple of points on the build:
Butterfly's Sting is not a good feat for a whip build, it is designed for a high crit weapon that is fairly wimpy on its own. It's the high crit part that sucks.

Fury's Fall is going to get the build looked at as cheese, since you are double-dipping Dex for tripping.

I would tend to recommend Improved Disarm, and the Greater Trip & Greater Disarm feats in the chain.

Not as cheesy, but nothing spells "Surrender!" as much as your enemy prone on the group without a weapon in easy reach.

Fury's Snare is just sort of bad, since you would be losing money with how often you would need to repair/replace your whips. Of course, Bladebound makes all sorts of interesting effects, there...

[kinevon]

As mentioned earlier, Lore Warden Fighter has a good line-up for combat maneuvers, what with Combat Expertise for free, and the Maneuver Mastery class ability.

With the right weapon and enhancements, and a few potions of Enlarge Person on tap, that Lore Warden is going to be ugly as a trip/disarm build.

I have an 11th level build that is +29 to trip and +31 to disarm, without any of the Improved feats. Since he used a whip, with a 15' reach, he was usually able to avoid AoOs for provoking...

[Oterisk]

A 15th level magus with Spell perfection can "whip out" a quickened true strike for any maneuvers they want to do.

And a 4 feat chain being counted cheese is silly to me. It is a significant benefit for a significant investment. You need Weapon Finesse, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, and Fury's fall to get double your Dex on trip chances. There's no way to get it before level 3 with a whip, and there are other 4 feat chains that are arguably more potent. Of course they have other prerequisites as well, and even if you can trip someone it hardly means the encounter is over.

[james maissen]

Kazarath wrote:

Problem is, unless you're fighting nothing but medium (or smaller) humanoids, your CMB is going to pale in comparison to most foes. The most commonly used monsters (at least in my experience) are either large sized with a high strength, multi-legged, or both.

My challenge to the community is this, can you make a whip-using character that can still be of use even at higher levels?

Flying negates trip, but otherwise you can certainly make a character that can trip things that aren't flying.

I made up a 1/2 orc ftr3(lore warden)/magus9(hexcrafter) for fun once based around the whip. If going higher I'd branch over to monk (maneuver master). The defense on the character was less than stellar but seemed like a fun build.

I posted it on the boards somewhere, perhaps on walter's magus thread.

-James

[Nemitri]

No one has mentioned the scorpion whip yet, its basically an improved whip (deals 1d4 lethal and counts as light, so you can dual wield two of them, and count as proficiency with whips)

[AceMcGrudy]

Well, if they are anything like me it is because they skipped the Performance weapons out of hand.

Thanks so much for pointing this out, I have decided against duel whip characters every time I noticed the whip is one handed.

[Robbgobb]

kinevon wrote:

Just a couple of points on the build:

Butterfly's Sting is not a good feat for a whip build, it is designed for a high crit weapon that is fairly wimpy on its own. It's the high crit part that sucks.

Fury's Fall is going to get the build looked at as cheese, since you are double-dipping Dex for tripping.

I would tend to recommend Improved Disarm, and the Greater Trip & Greater Disarm feats in the chain.

Not as cheesy, but nothing spells "Surrender!" as much as your enemy prone on the group without a weapon in easy reach.

Fury's Snare is just sort of bad, since you would be losing money with how often you would need to repair/replace your whips. Of course, Bladebound makes all sorts of interesting effects, there...

Thanks for your suggestions but I think Butterfly's Sting is really good with Spellstrike.

Fury's Fall might be looked at as Cheese but have to have it for Fury's Snare. And for Snare, did think about Bladebound. Just was thinking it would be better not to do that.

I am mainly thinking about things for that I normally would not do. It might be a character I would only play with a home group when we had front row and range so that I could benefit from the reach. If I was trying to make a character that I was expecting to work then I would change up lots of feats. Thanks again for the suggestions.