Our party got TPK last gaming sesion by 6 ghosts and later took us to a Necromancer. He offered us a deal to become undead and none of us accepted so we died. We were a lv 5 party with 3 players and 1 Dm.
Now is time to make new characters LV 5 and I decided to build a Druid that goes into melee and wildshapes. Our new party will be consisted of :
1- Bard/gnome/Soudstriker
2- Cleric / AAsimar
3- Me...Druid /Menhir Savant / Race? I probably will be the main melee.
My stats are the following 16 16 14 14 12 12
Im planning to put STR / CON / DEX / WIS / INT / CHA in that order.
I still havent decided about the race...I can use anything that is on the Pathfindersrd website. My options are, Human, Dwarf, Half-ogre, Anumi, Mahrog, Asterion, Obitu.
My dilemma is....if I do have low Wis...do I really miss it at 12 level when casting 6lv spells? Is a long road from lv 5 to 12 and I have seen the list...and most of them are buffs, some control spells and a few damage.
The guide puts Dex very slightly above Con, but the rest of your attribute selections seem agree with the guide. The guide also recommends Human for race, or maybe half-orc or half-elf.
If your focus is melee, dump CHA and INT and throw that into STR. Your 14 Wis should be fine if you can find a wisdom+6 item sometime before 10th level.
14 wis is fine, int and cha aren't that important. I think the dwarf is the best race considering the bonuses to saves. Also take the glory of old trait. 16 strength is fine but 18 is better if you can afford it. Have at least one form for each type of movement and a main combat form. I suggest the ape past level 4 till 7 then the large cat(tiger) as your animal companion. The boa is also is also a good replacement for the ape and the roc and mastadon are good level 7s as well. natural spell is your 5th level feat. everything else is optional. I'll be back later with more advice.
Your DM clearly has lost perspective and control of his game. Either he had planned on wiping you out to further advance the storyline by making you undead (in which case he should not have you rolling up new characters), or he has NO concept of what 6 ghosts can do to even a 15+ level party..let alone 3 level 5's. As ghost attacks are incorporeal, they will likey hit often regardless of AC.
Assuming these ghosts were originally CR 1/4 commoners, the CR for this encounter would be higher than your APL, which isn't a terrible thing.
But if the base creatures were CR 1 or higher, then this was like a boss encounter (APL+3, technically should be a bit higher since there are only three of you) with superior action economy.
Assuming these ghosts were originally CR 1/4 commoners, the CR for this encounter would be higher than your APL, which isn't a terrible thing.
But if the base creatures were CR 1 or higher, then this was like a boss encounter (APL+3, technically should be a bit higher since there are only three of you) with superior action economy.
What were the circumstances of this encounter?
EDIT: Ninja'd.
Blacklantern : Thats what happened.
These ghosts were in a forest, at that time we were following a Big trail of Blood. Guess who wanted to investigate ( the paladin and druid ).
The ghosts ambushed us and they had all their abilities at the time.
LIFE 20 AC 17 Made touch attacks with +5 Damage 5d6 INCORPOREAL.
So, the battle went like this. Our paladin started to cast Energy Burst, the Druid with a Club +1 and I was a Wizard 4/Sorcerer 1 (Blaster) Throwing Burning hands, Missile Magic, Acid Orb, etc.
There was no fight in it. We killed one...but it was always throw a dice for 50/50 vs incorporeal. Soon, the paladin and druid fell. I ran to a fort and looked for help. Came back with 7 adventurers and the same happened.
The Necromancer wanted to make a deal with the Druid and Paladin.
Due to their nature, both said no....and became ghosts.
We talked with our DM and he said that the only way was to kill the ghost from distance cause they couldnt leave an area in the forest and the other option was to withdraw cause is clearly an overmatch to a party of lv 5.
14 wis is fine, int and cha aren't that important. I think the dwarf is the best race considering the bonuses to saves. Also take the glory of old trait. 16 strength is fine but 18 is better if you can afford it. Have at least one form for each type of movement and a main combat form. I suggest the ape past level 4 till 7 then the large cat(tiger) as your animal companion. The boa is also is also a good replacement for the ape and the roc and mastadon are good level 7s as well. natural spell is your 5th level feat. everything else is optional. I'll be back later with more advice.
I dropped the dwarf and chose the MAHROG.
STR 16(18) DEX 16 CON 14(16) INT 12 (10) WIS 14 CHA 12 .
My plan is to choose a tiger or a Lion as my animal companion cause we get into dungeons and houses a lot.
My AC with hide Armor is +4 AC +3 DEX +2 NA (MAHROG) = 19 seems ok.
Im still looking for feats.
Our DM gives us 2 flaws and 1,3,5 feats (5 in total). My first feat will be Toughness and still deliberating about the others.....
power attack, improved init, spell focus conjuration(just to go into augment summoning), natural spell. Perhaps dodge or improved natural armor if you feel you need it. Your DM better be making the encounters a lot harder then normal considering he's giving you flaws and allowing an overpowered race. Btw remember that you can change your animal companion for a new one at any time as long as you're in the right biome and have some time on your hands. The archetype Menhir Savant is explicitly better than the default options.
power attack, improved init, spell focus conjuration(just to go into augment summoning), natural spell. Perhaps dodge or improved natural armor if you feel you need it. Your DM better be making the encounters a lot harder then normal considering he's giving you flaws and allowing an overpowered race. Btw remember that you can change your animal companion for a new one at any time as long as you're in the right biome and have some time on your hands. The archetype Menhir Savant is explicitly better than the default options.
Thanks. And Yes, our DM is extremely hard in his campaigns cause he allows powerful races and 3er party feats.
Menhir Savant is a great option for this melee druid. And those feats are great! I was looking for Improve Natural attack...but is +4BAB.
Do you know any good guide of wildshaping, that is based in pathfinder ?
Look for things with climb, swim, and fly. Also extra senses are always welcome. the raptor is the best at your level(for combat)(if you're 5) but at level 6 you gain access to tiger. The tiger has rake, pounce, and grab on all attacks. remember to buy masterwork studded leather for your animal companion since he doesn't need feat training because he takes no attack penalties(no armor check penalty) as well. Remember to pick up some sort of two handed melee weapon(you want to help your animal companion hit after all and don't always have access to wildshape or some spells). Pick up whatever you can that will give bonuses to skills that you think you will use. Also get a mw backpack, ioun torch, and a sling(sometimes you just need to do range). Obscuring mist and entangle spells are really good for you considering you're melee. Bark skin, bulls strength, and lesser restoration are the best 2nd level spells. sleet storm is probably the best 3rd level spell but there are many that are conditionally better. Make sure before you play that you have printed out monsters that you plan on summoning. It's really annoying for someone to wait for you to find the monster you want to summon. PFSRD has a monster database and treant monks guide on the druid as well.
edit:also at level 4 you get to place 1 point any where in any attribute score so consider that when doing your build.
Do think about taking the domain over the AC, the druid in our campaign frequently completely forgets about his AC and would have preferred the domain. When he does remember the AC the action time makes the other players twiddle their thumbs a bit.
It depends on the player, I have seen Wizards with Familiars and never take them into account.
If I wanted to make a druid which focuses in magic and summoning, I would take the Domain over the Animal Companion. If the player is always "forgetting" his AC, it may be better if he takes the domain over the AC.
And get new abilities that he could use....
I always prefer animal companion cause it can be anything, a hawk, a tiger which can help me as scouts or as a fighting buddy.
If you plan on doing some decent melee then take an animal companion. A well chosen ac isn't something you're going to forget. They can become very important if built right. For example my 4th level druid has an animal companion that is a large ape
He has 22 strength 14 con 16 dex 12 wis 7 cha and an int of 3 at level 4 for common
has a climb speed of 30ft and normal movement speed of 30ft
senses are low light and scent
hp:30
Not sure what those races are, but you want +2 Str/Wis and -2 Cha or Int, preferably Cha. Oread fits the bill.
Definitely Menhir Savant. You can drop the animal companion, grab the Feather (Animal) domain for some nice flight spells and perception buff, then pick up the Boon Companion feat to undo the level penalty your comapanion takes from the animal domain. That is the best option, IMO.
I have a melee druid build idea. It involves dipping into Master of Many Styles Sohei Monk at level 3 (or any odd level after 1, but I'd do it at 3). Before that level, take dodge. Upon taking that monk level (and gaining Improved Unarmed Strike), take Crane Style as your level 3 feat and Crane Wing as your monk bonus feat. You now can take -2 to hit for +4 AC (assuming 3 ranks in acrobatics) and cause the first melee hit on you each round to be deflected. And you add your wis to AC. So you're much harder to kill. Combine w/ wildshape you get soon after for the size, str, and natural attacks, and you're pretty uber in melee. Later on once you've gotten Natural Spell, Boon Companion, and possibly Wild Speech (if you care about speaking in wildshape and can't just wait for the elemental forms to get Large/Huge), consider picking up another style feat since you can use 2 simultaneously. I like Dragon Style. Finally, if you want to do combat maneuvers, check out the Powerful Wildshape feat. It's not that good until you can turn into huge stuff, so that it's then at least giving you a +2, which is still pretty mediocre.
EDIT: Level 9 snap-shot of the build (using 25 point buy). Feel free to switch str and wis (both starting values and where the +2 from levelling goes; you'd end up with Str 20 (28) and Wis 16 (18) at level 9 in Allosaurus form then), I just valued high wis more than high strength.
Spoiler:
Oread Menhir Savant Druid 2 / MoMS Sohei Monk 1 / Druid +6
Bond: Feather subdomain (or just animal to save a feat)
Str 16, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 18, Cha 6 (starting)
Str 16 (18), Dex 14, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 20 (22), Cha 6 (level 9)
Str 16 (24), Dex 14 (10), Con 14, Int 12, Wis 20 (22), Cha 6 (Allosaurus Form)
HP: xx (9d8 +18)
AC (normal form): 23 (10 +4 mage armor +1 dodge +6 monk +1 deflect +1 insight)
AC (Allosaurus): 28 (10 +4 mage armor +1 dodge +6 monk +7 natural -2 size +1 deflect +1 insight)
Saves (normal form): Fort +11, Ref +7, Will +15
1 Dodge
3 Crane Style (Fight Defensive: -2 attack; +4 AC)
3 Improved Unarmed Strike [Monk]
3 Crane Wing [Monk]
5 Boon Companion
7 Natural Spell (it’s not that useful at 5th level…)
9 Dragon or Snake Style
Alternative (didn't take domain): Natural spell @ 5, Wild Speech @ 7, no Boon Companion
Class: Proficient in Light/Medium armor and simple/martial/some monk weapons, Feather subdomain, T-Rex companion, Spirit Sense (Sp at will; detect undead, fey, outsiders and astral/ethereal/incorp. creatures), Place Magic (+1 CL for 1 round) 9/day, Wild Shape 3/day, Devoted Guardian (always act in surprise round), Fuse Style (two styles at once), AC Bonus
Equip:
Wis +2
Str +2
Cloak of Resistance +1
Ring of Protect +1
Natural armor +1
Dusty Rose Iuon Stone
Wand of Mage Armor or 1st level pearl of power (so someone can buff you w/ mage armor)
If you plan on doing some decent melee then take an animal companion. A well chosen ac isn't something you're going to forget. They can become very important if built right. For example my 4th level druid has an animal companion that is a large ape
He has 22 strength 14 con 16 dex 12 wis 7 cha and an int of 3 at level 4 for common
has a climb speed of 30ft and normal movement speed of 30ft
senses are low light and scent
hp:30
Dragonstyle is worth it if your DM uses terrain at all, even if it costs two feats.
I would plan on being in raptor form a great deal of the time. It may have one less pounce attack than the tiger, but as a medium creature it can charge more easily. My experience with mounted combat has lead me to believe that by the raw large creatures can rarely if ever charge in your typical dungeon. Its also an extra attack over the tiger when not charging.
Get an amulet of mighty fists set to do elemental damage and cast greater magic fang on your claws.
I would not drop the animal companion for anything. They are wickedly powerful on their own, they make good flanking buddies, and can meat shield for you if something goes wrong and you need to retreat and heal up. Just remember to gear them up, usually with the parties hand me downs.
Wild armor is a trap. Don't do it. Its cheaper to buy multiple sets of armor for your different forms. Stone plate from the inner sea world guide is plate armor for druids.
Assuming these ghosts were originally CR 1/4 commoners, the CR for this encounter would be higher than your APL, which isn't a terrible thing.
But if the base creatures were CR 1 or higher, then this was like a boss encounter (APL+3, technically should be a bit higher since there are only three of you) with superior action economy.
What were the circumstances of this encounter?
EDIT: Ninja'd.
Blacklantern : Thats what happened.
These ghosts were in a forest, at that time we were following a Big trail of Blood. Guess who wanted to investigate ( the paladin and druid ).
The ghosts ambushed us and they had all their abilities at the time.
LIFE 20 AC 17 Made touch attacks with +5 Damage 5d6 INCORPOREAL.
So, the battle went like this. Our paladin started to cast Energy Burst, the Druid with a Club +1 and I was a Wizard 4/Sorcerer 1 (Blaster) Throwing Burning hands, Missile Magic, Acid Orb, etc.
There was no fight in it. We killed one...but it was always throw a dice for 50/50 vs incorporeal. Soon, the paladin and druid fell. I ran to a fort and looked for help. Came back with 7 adventurers and the same happened.
The Necromancer wanted to make a deal with the Druid and Paladin.
Due to their nature, both said no....and became ghosts.
We talked with our DM and he said that the only way was to kill the ghost from distance cause they couldnt leave an area in the forest and the other option was to withdraw cause is clearly an overmatch to a party of lv 5.
Um, was your DM making you roll percentiles to see if you hit the ghosts? If so, he was running them wrong. In pathfinder, if you have a magic weapon or use spells then there is no miss chance, you just deal half damage.
Not sure what those races are, but you want +2 Str/Wis and -2 Cha or Int, preferably Cha. Oread fits the bill.
Definitely Menhir Savant. You can drop the animal companion, grab the Feather (Animal) domain for some nice flight spells and perception buff, then pick up the Boon Companion feat to undo the level penalty your comapanion takes from the animal domain. That is the best option, IMO.
I have a melee druid build idea. It involves dipping into Master of Many Styles Sohei Monk at level 3 (or any odd level after 1, but I'd do it at 3). Before that level, take dodge. Upon taking that monk level (and gaining Improved Unarmed Strike), take Crane Style as your level 3 feat and Crane Wing as your monk bonus feat. You now can take -2 to hit for +4 AC (assuming 3 ranks in acrobatics) and cause the first melee hit on you each round to be deflected. And you add your wis to AC. So you're much harder to kill. Combine w/ wildshape you get soon after for the size, str, and natural attacks, and you're pretty uber in melee. Later on once you've gotten Natural Spell, Boon Companion, and possibly Wild Speech (if you care about speaking in wildshape and can't just wait for the elemental forms to get Large/Huge), consider picking up another style feat since you can use 2 simultaneously. I like Dragon Style. Finally, if you want to do combat maneuvers, check out the Powerful Wildshape feat. It's not that good until you can turn into huge stuff, so that it's then at least giving you a +2, which is still pretty mediocre.
EDIT: Level 9 snap-shot of the build (using 25 point buy). Feel free to switch str and wis (both starting values and where the +2 from levelling goes; you'd end up with Str 20 (28) and Wis 16 (18) at level 9 in Allosaurus form then), I just valued high wis more than high strength.
** spoiler omitted **...
Hi, I have been thinking about multiclassing the Melee Druid with a Monk in the future, but IMO I will probably do it when I reach lv 9-10.
I still have to talk with my DM about using the Crane Style in wildshape form. As the Crane Wing feat which allows you to deflect one attack with a Hand. In which case, Ill be using claws, tails or anything else. He takes the rules as written and with an earth elemental I can have arms and hands as I design it any way I want.
Hi, I have been thinking about multiclassing the Melee Druid with a Monk in the future, but IMO I will probably do it when I reach lv 9-10.
I still have to talk with my DM about using the Crane Style in wildshape form. As the Crane Wing feat which allows you to deflect one attack with a Hand. In which case, Ill be using claws, tails or anything else. He takes the rules as written and with an earth elemental I can have arms and hands as I design it any way I want.
Thanks for the idea!!!
You have to take feral combat training to use unarmed feats with natural weapons
Assuming these ghosts were originally CR 1/4 commoners, the CR for this encounter would be higher than your APL, which isn't a terrible thing.
But if the base creatures were CR 1 or higher, then this was like a boss encounter (APL+3, technically should be a bit higher since there are only three of you) with superior action economy.
What were the circumstances of this encounter?
EDIT: Ninja'd.
Blacklantern : Thats what happened.
These ghosts were in a forest, at that time we were following a Big trail of Blood. Guess who wanted to investigate ( the paladin and druid ).
The ghosts ambushed us and they had all their abilities at the time.
LIFE 20 AC 17 Made touch attacks with +5 Damage 5d6 INCORPOREAL.
So, the battle went like this. Our paladin started to cast Energy Burst, the Druid with a Club +1 and I was a Wizard 4/Sorcerer 1 (Blaster) Throwing Burning hands, Missile Magic, Acid Orb, etc.
There was no fight in it. We killed one...but it was always throw a dice for 50/50 vs incorporeal. Soon, the paladin and druid fell. I ran to a fort and looked for help. Came back with 7 adventurers and the same happened.
The Necromancer wanted to make a deal with the Druid and Paladin.
Due to their nature, both said no....and became ghosts.
We talked with our DM and he said that the only way was to kill the ghost from distance cause they couldnt leave an area in the forest and the other option was to withdraw cause is clearly an overmatch to a party of lv 5.
Um, was your DM making you roll percentiles to see if you hit the ghosts? If so, he was running them wrong. In pathfinder, if you have a magic weapon or use spells then there is no miss chance, you just deal half damage.
Roanark :
He was using them wrong because we were throwing 50% up to with magical weapons (paladin with bonded sword) or even burning hands.
If you plan on doing some decent melee then take an animal companion. A well chosen ac isn't something you're going to forget. They can become very important if built right. For example my 4th level druid has an animal companion that is a large ape
He has 22 strength 14 con 16 dex 12 wis 7 cha and an int of 3 at level 4 for common
has a climb speed of 30ft and normal movement speed of 30ft
senses are low light and scent
hp:30
An animal companion gains Multiattack as a bonus feat if it has three or more natural attacks and does not already have that feat. If it does not have the requisite three or more natural attacks, the animal companion instead gains a second attack with its primary natural weapon, albeit at a –5 penalty.
If I have an ape as AC. He has 1 Bite + 2 claws (3Nat Attacks), when he reaches lv 9. What good it is gaining the Multiattack Feat?
Also, BAB for AC specifies :
BAB
This is the animal companion's base attack bonus. An animal companion's base attack bonus is the same as that of a druid of a level equal to the animal's HD. Animal companions do not gain additional attacks using their natural weapons for a high base attack bonus.
If I have an ape as AC. He has 1 Bite + 2 claws (3Nat Attacks), when he reaches lv 9 STR 24 ( 13 + 8 + 3 ) Has a BAB of +6/+1 and gains Multiattack.
That means that the LV 9 Ape will never have more attacks per rounds than his Full attack of 1 Bite +13 and 2 Claws +13?
or will it have 1 Bite +13/ 2 Claws +13/ 1 bite +8?
Animal companions fall off in potential power because they have a fixed number of attacks that NEVER change based on levels. Remember that you can change AC pretty easily so don't let something like that hurt your gameplay if you want to keep an effective ac. However do note that Melee druids fall off at about levels 10 to 12.
