Is there a way to get bludgeoning damage with a dagger?

[false_idol]

Title pretty much says it, without using the dagger as an improvised weapon, are there any feats/features that might make this possible?

[Mabven the OP healer]

This does both what you want, and what you don't want:

Catch Off-Guard

[Justin Sluder]

Is there a way to get bludgeoning damage with a dagger? Yes, use the dagger to kill someone who has a hammer. Take the hammer and now you get to deal bludgeoning damage. ;)

[false_idol]

My problem with using it as an improvised weapon (if I'm understanding the rules correctly) is that wouldn't it negate any feats I have specific to the dagger?

[AvalonXQ]

I assume you're trying to get your d8 sneak attack dice doubled (combining sap master and knife master)?

I don't know any way for this to work.

[Mergy]

Dagger pistol would shoot as a bludgeoning weapon I believe?

[Cutlass]

In the real world - hit the guy with the pommel of the dagger.

In the game world, apparently not.

[Ahorsewithnoname]

This spells will allow you to bypass DR/bludgeoning with your dagger

Versatile Weapon

[Mergy]

Cutlass wrote:

In the real world - hit the guy with the pommel of the dagger.

In the game world, apparently not.

That is simulated with the improvised weapon rules.

Yes I know some daggers are built with knuckledusters; talk to your GM and ask if you can have one.

[DeathQuaker]

false_idol wrote:

My problem with using it as an improvised weapon (if I'm understanding the rules correctly) is that wouldn't it negate any feats I have specific to the dagger?

That's an area that you need to resolve with your GM, because I think it depends on how you see the situation, and not something that you can elegantly make a universal ruling on.

I am assuming what you're trying to do is hit someone with the pommel or flat of the blade. Most daggers are not designed to do this elegantly, hence why it would fall under using a dagger as an improvised bludgeoning weapon (with due respect to him, as far as I can tell, Cutlass is incorrect, it is not impossible, it just falls under a different set of rules).

On one hand, one could argue that since the dagger is being used as an improvised weapon, and not as it's intended, feats and class abilities related to its use do not apply, which is the assumption I think you're making.

But on the other hand, if you're trained to use the dagger especially (Weapon Focus or fighter Weapon Training) for example, it's arguable you have been trained in the versatility of its use, and thus would be able to do a pommel strike and still get your bonuses from your training. Using this reasoning, I would still inflict the -4 improvised weapon penalty--the blade is not balanced well for everyday use that way (unless of course you have Catch Off Guard)--but I'd also allow other bonuses to still stack. So, if you have Weapon Training 1 and Weapon Focus 1, that gives you a +2 to attack, so you're at a net -2 penalty (and a normal +2 to attack if you have Catch Off Guard).

RAW probably does argue in favor of the bonuses from weapon feats not stacking but again, I think it's really something to talk out with your GM since it's not unreasonable.

[false_idol]

DeathQuaker wrote:

But on the other hand, if you're trained to use the dagger especially (Weapon Focus or fighter Weapon Training) for example, it's arguable you have been trained in the versatility of its use, and thus would be able to do a pommel strike and still get your bonuses from your training. Using this reasoning, I would still inflict the -4 improvised weapon penalty--the blade is not balanced well for everyday use that way (unless of course you have Catch Off Guard)--but I'd also allow other bonuses to still stack. So, if you have Weapon Training 1 and Weapon Focus 1, that gives you a +2 to attack, so you're at a net -2 penalty (and a normal +2 to attack if you have Catch Off Guard).

RAW probably does argue in favor of the bonuses from weapon feats not stacking but again, I think it's really something to talk out with your GM since it's not unreasonable.

I would tend to agree with you, but I'm trying to cheeseweenie pretty hard , I wouldn't feel right using it if I couldn't do it RAW.

I found a third level paladin spell that let's you do it, but so far that's the closest I've come to getting my cheese combo

UNLESS anybody knows an easy way for a rogue to get a third level paladin spell? One step at a time baby

[Mergy]

UMD and a wand of it? If you have a magic item creating buddy, you could also get an item crafted that let you cast it 1/day without UMD; pricier that way, of course.

[Ahorsewithnoname]

false_idol wrote:

UNLESS anybody knows an easy way for a rogue to get a third level paladin spell? One step at a time baby

UMD?

[Ahorsewithnoname]

Ahorsewithnoname wrote:

false_idol wrote:

UNLESS anybody knows an easy way for a rogue to get a third level paladin spell? One step at a time baby

UMD?

Wait I read the spell you are referring to, it won't work RAW unless you are a 5th level Paladin.