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Am I correct in assuming that the grab ability does not interrupt a creature's attack routine if it triggers a grapple?
For example, let's say we have a monster with a claw/claw/bite attack routine and the grab ability. Then the following happens:
1.) It makes a full attack, and hits an enemy with it's first claw. It makes a grapple check and successfully grabs an opponent.
2.) The creature and its opponent immediately gain the grappled condition.
3.) The creature then makes its second claw attack, and then its bite attack.
4.) On its next turn, the creature can either abandon the grapple and make another full-attack action (possibly securing another grab in the process), or it deal damage in a grapple by making a grapple check to deal damage with a natural weapon.
Is all that correct?
Can't it choose to remain in the grappleandtakeitsnatural attacks? I thought in a grapple you an attack with natural attacks and light or one handed manufactured weapons.
If I remember correctly, it can take a standard action to maintain the grapple which, if successful, will allow him to deal automatic damage with a natural weapon, or if the other creature gained control of the grapple, he could attack with his natural weapons instead of trying to break the grapple. He couldn't maintain his grapple and make a full attack action.
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Am I correct in assuming that the grab ability does not interrupt a creature's attack routine if it triggers a grapple?
There have been a thousand angry threads about this question on the forums, and the developers refuse to comment.
Some people believe your full attack ends when you succeed at the grapple check. Some don't. Some say that you can succeed at the grapple, but then drop the grapple as a free action to continue your full round attack. Some say there's a heinous penalty involved. The different positions on this argument are highly complicated and no developer has dared clarify it.
Here's the most comprehensive Megathread arguing about it:
http://paizo.com/forums/dmtz2sdv&page=1?Grab-the-grapple-actions
The question is whether the giant octopus gets to deal constrict damage 8 times, basically. The answer is *shrug*, and the thread ended with a bunch of nerds playing the internet-last-word-wins game.
I would like to have an official example on how to use grap ability as well. Especially on the question if the full attack is interrupted or not if a grapple is started. Thus far at our table we ruled that the full attack routine of, lets say a giant octopus, is interrupted as soon as it gains the grappled condition. This judgement is based on the argument, that gaining the grappled condition means two entirely different things depending on who is grapping and who gets grapped. Both get the penalties described in the appendix but the set of available combat options is quite different depending on who is grapping and who gets grapped. While the one who gets grapped is allowed to either perform grapple checks to break free/reverse or do anything you can do by only using one hand (including full attacks), the one who is grapping is only allowed to either end the whole thing with a free action or perform grapple checks as a standard action. So full attacks are no valid actions anymore for someone who is grapping somebody else. Therefore as soon as a normal grapple is initiated finishing the full attack is not possible anymore (you would have to take the -20 penalty to have a chance of grabbing and continue attacking). There are numerous other examples were a change of condition stops a full attack in mid air.
The majority of natural attack routines usually don't have multiple grab attempts available (tentacl-y things tend to be the exception). On our table we just resolve all the the rest of the attacks and leave the "grabbing" attack last to resolve. You don't have to grab/grapple so you can attack with natural weapons that proc grapple and ignore the ability until you want it to happen (octapus might hit 4 times for damage then try to grab the last 4, or hit 7 and attempt a grapple on the last attack). As the posters above have said no "official" word has come down (and probably won't, leaving it up to the GM is their apparent answer in a way).
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Skylancer4:
The Tiger and Dire Tiger (common creatures for the purposes of Summon and Beast Shape spells) both have multiple grab attempts. So unfortunately this question is not in the realm of 'rarely occurs'.
With that said: my take on it is that since the standard action to maintain only occurs in the following round and since the grapple condition does not state it interrupts your attack sequence then it does not stop a full-attack sequence from continuing.
- Gauss
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Skylancer4:
The Tiger and Dire Tiger (common creatures for the purposes of Summon and Beast Shape spells) both have multiple grab attempts. So unfortunately this question is not in the realm of 'rarely occurs'.
With that said: my take on it is that since the standard action to maintain only occurs in the following round and since the grapple condition does not state it interrupts your attack sequence then it does not stop a full-attack sequence from continuing.
- Gauss
Bump.
You don't have to grab/grapple so you can attack with natural weapons that proc grapple and ignore the ability until you want it to happen (octapus might hit 4 times for damage then try to grab the last 4, or hit 7 and attempt a grapple on the last attack). As the posters above have said no "official" word has come down (and probably won't, leaving it up to the GM is their apparent answer in a way).
This is how we've always handled it. Because there is no clear-cut ruling on how this works, we just err on the side of caution. We make the grab attack last since you aren't required to make the attacks in any sort of order. Or, barring that, we all just ASSUME the grab attack happens last, regardless of when you roll it. Ie, if you hit with an attack and use grab in your first attack, you continue your attack routine, but you don't apply the grappled condition to anyone until the attack routine is ended. It may not be the perfect solution, but it seems to appease members from both camps...which we have in my group.
Alas, these are the arguments and to me both positions make perfectly sense. We adopted the ruling mentioned above after several extremly deadly encounters with grapple happy monsters in the carrion crown path.
Hopefully keeping the grapple related threads active will someday provoke an offical clarification.
Full attack action with grab -> Grapple check as free action -> Do constrict damage if possible -> Release grapple as a free action -> continue your full attack action
In this way a giant octopus can do 1d8+5 (bite), 8x 1d4+2 (tentacles) and 0 to 8 times 1d4+2 (constrict) damage.
That's the infamous assembly line grappler, which the sensible DM will prevent by placing a reasonable limit on what you can really do for free, as advised by the core rulebook.
I had a similar question, which I think was answered satisfactorily in this thread.
The conclusions:
1) A successful grab does not end a full attack, but any subsequent attacks are at a -2 because you now have the grappled condition (unless you're using the "hold" ability to make the grab check at -20.) Nowhere in the rules does it say anything about not being able to full attack while grappling, you just ordinarily don't have enough actions to do it (because maintaining a grapple is a standard action.)
2) You can grab multiple targets with the same full attack, causing them all to gain the grappled condition (although the attacker only gains it once, multiple grappled conditions don't stack.) You can only maintain one grapple, but there's nothing to stop you from releasing all the grapples, and making a new round of grabs on your next full attack.