Classic forum technique of adding to my post and then replying to it. I didn't specify why I would do it, just that I would.Likewise. If it were a monster or fey, that'd be okay. But one of the normal races and classes? Meh. As a player I find it lame and unfair. As a DM I find it lazy and unfair and a tad metagamey.Let him know, if it effects you, it effects his NPCs.This isn't true in my games. I don't use character creation rules for npcs if I don't feel like it, and sometimes I use different rules for them all together. For example, a fighter who never takes AoO or a sorcerer who casts all spells as if they were spell-like abilities.That is not something I would ever put up with.
I am taking a moment, mind you, to think about being a person who would enjoy this from a DM.
I still have not fully wrapped my head around that.
Except I'm pretty sure "because I don't feel like it" is stating why you would skip out on the usual NPC creation rules...
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It is a game. That is a weird thing to deny. I mean, if you really don't need any rules, why are you using rulebooks?
Are you not just LARPing in chairs while occasionally rolling some dice because you feel like it?
If you are playing your own game(or whatever you call it), and not using the Pathfinder system in any real shape or form, then you are playing it in name only.
When I come to play a poker game, I expect Ace high to beat King high.
Not for it only to do so when the right person is holding the Aces.
CW has a few houserules that many board members would not appreciate. We have discussed it before. If you do a few searches you can find a couple.
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I just gotta say this....."i don't care it's like this... i don't want you to question it!" when the GM just basically houseruled mine and my buddy's PC to be absolutely useless in any melee situation is not only unacceptable but rude, asinine, and egotistical. I don't need to stroke this dude's ego and take that crap. We are friends getting together to play a game. If his ego doesn't allow any question or discussion to His Law then screw him. I have a boss at work that can speak like that....sometimes....if I feel like taking it, I don't need that in my "fun-time". You stopped the game for a minute to tell him what the rule was...it didn't destroy the game to pause for a moment, it takes maybe a moment to look up the proper rule. If A$$hat GM can't take rules questions he shouldn't be the one enforcing the rules.
Given that we have the SRD and searchable PDFs, it makes it a helluva lot easier to look up rulings. As a GM, I don't mind taking a minute to look things up.
All hail the glory of the internet!
Actually it is a game, social activity, and potential story telling event.
How much of each it is varies by group. I have seen tables where killing was the order of the day, and plot hook(what's that?) was just as excuse to use sharp pointy object, and throw fireballs. There was not really any story telling, but the shared delight in killing definitely made it a social activity.
What? Let's take a look at the Core Book's Cover for a moment. What's the full title? "Pathfinder Roleplaying Game"
It might be a story-telling game, but it is still a game.
EDIT: Ninja'd by bbt
To be honest, I'd say that if you really want to focus on pure storytelling with the rules taking a backseat, there are probably much better systems than Pathfinder to use. At it's heart, Pathfinder is a very technical and rules-heavy game
If you want collaborative storytelling out of an RPG, you'd be a lot better off using something like the FATE system.
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You know, I just read through your houserules and some other posts in other threads cranewing.
If an Art Critic ran a Pathfinder game, he'd probably run it like you do.
"It's not art, it's an experience through the turmoil that is that is the human spirit".
Yeah, definitely Art Critic.
Face it, you and your group(I hope) are fine with your style, but it is not a superior style(if that's what you're suggesting).
Why is someone with no knowledge of the rules being the GM?Wow, really? Everyone starts somewhere.
Not to mention there are a lot of rules and even a seasoned GM can sometimes get confused in the heat of battle.
But the most important thing in this thread is its title. At last somebody has thought to just drop the "Game" part of the title altogether.
BWA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HAAAAAAAA!!!
Removed a post. Please be civil to other posters.
Still waiting for the OP to tell us what happened.
@cranewings
I went (really fast) through your house rules, some of them create some serious issues with other aspects of the game, who in turn create issues with other aspects of the game and so on. I was going to comment on some of them but i have more serious question to ask:
Why for the name of everything that is good and holy did you go through the trouble of writing the house rules since you do whatever you want with the rules at any time?
For that matter why even bring the books with you and why even buy them in the first place if you aren't going to use them?
Unless it a life or death situation, then I always suggest that any calls on the rules (rules lawyering) be held off until either the end of the session, between sessions or before the start of the next session. Go with it for that session.Of course, the fact that this particular rules interpretation is, indeed, something that is, IMO, going to potentially turn a situation into a life or death situation means that getting this rule right is vital.
Long term, yes it is important to understand how the GM is interpreting the rules.
For one game session, I think probably not.
After the session, talk to the GM in a calm and respectful manner. If it is an interpretation error (as I believe this one is), then it can be cleared up without interfering with game play.
I just gotta say this....."i don't care it's like this... i don't want you to question it!" when the GM just basically houseruled mine and my buddy's PC to be absolutely useless in any melee situation is not only unacceptable but rude, asinine, and egotistical. I don't need to stroke this dude's ego and take that crap. We are friends getting together to play a game. If his ego doesn't allow any question or discussion to His Law then screw him. I have a boss at work that can speak like that....sometimes....if I feel like taking it, I don't need that in my "fun-time". You stopped the game for a minute to tell him what the rule was...it didn't destroy the game to pause for a moment, it takes maybe a moment to look up the proper rule. If A$$hat GM can't take rules questions he shouldn't be the one enforcing the rules.
I find it interesting that you have jumped to the conclusion that the GM has ego problems and that all the problems at the described gaming sessions were caused by the GM.
The manner in which the OP and his friend told the GM that he had gotten it wrong will have a large impact on how it is received. And the frequency in which the GM is challenged each game session will also have an impact on how people respond.
A "you idiot, you got it wrong" will not be well received by most, even from friends. Especially if it has already happened several times that game session.
From my experience, it takes more than a minute to find the correct page (or pages if the rules are spread over different sections), as most people don't know exactly where to find the rule, so they need to spend time finding the right page.
As to your last phrase Fake Healer, most people don't want to be GM, they would rather play. If players take that attitude, are they willing to take over the responsibilities of being the GM? So, I am curious to know if you are mostly a GM or a player?
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I just gotta say this....."i don't care it's like this... i don't want you to question it!" when the GM just basically houseruled mine and my buddy's PC to be absolutely useless in any melee situation is not only unacceptable but rude, asinine, and egotistical. I don't need to stroke this dude's ego and take that crap. We are friends getting together to play a game. If his ego doesn't allow any question or discussion to His Law then screw him. I have a boss at work that can speak like that....sometimes....if I feel like taking it, I don't need that in my "fun-time". You stopped the game for a minute to tell him what the rule was...it didn't destroy the game to pause for a moment, it takes maybe a moment to look up the proper rule. If A$$hat GM can't take rules questions he shouldn't be the one enforcing the rules.I find it interesting that you have jumped to the conclusion that the GM has ego problems and that all the problems at the described gaming sessions were caused by the GM.
The manner in which the OP and his friend told the GM that he had gotten it wrong will have a large impact on how it is received. And the frequency in which the GM is challenged each game session will also have an impact on how people respond.
A "you idiot, you got it wrong" will not be well received by most, even from friends. Especially if it has already happened several times that game session.
From my experience, it takes more than a minute to find the correct page (or pages if the rules are spread over different sections), as most people don't know exactly where to find the rule, so they need to spend time finding the right page.
As to your last phrase Fake Healer, most people don't want to be GM, they would rather play. If players take that attitude, are they willing to take over the responsibilities of being the GM? So, I am curious to know if you are mostly a GM or a player?
My group runs 2 campaigns currently on alternating weeks....I GM one of them. If I don't know a rule I ask the table, I usually get a good answer from the more experienced players and go with it until I can verify the rule. If the rule is important at the moment (sundering a player's item, PC death, magical disease, etc..) I ask someone to look it up, usually the person most familiar with the rulebook needed, and they usually find the rule within a minute or so. If I have to make an off-the-cuff ruling I make sure that it is fair to everyone involved and then move on.
If I had 2 players tell me a rule and I was looking at the wrong rule I would apologize and go with it, looking it up later to verify and (hopefully) commit it to memory. If my response was "I don't care it's like this... I don't want you to question it!", as the OP stated, then I am being unreasonable and letting my ego control my ability to communicate with my group of friends.I didn't assume anything with my post, I formed opinions based on information given by the OP which may only show one side of the story but it's all I have to go on. I also never said that the players bear no fault, I have no information on how the players acted to form an opinion on that.
I like GMing and am fair and open with my group (I hope anyway). I also like being a player. In either role an open mind and a little respect for those around you goes a long way. It seems one, the other or both were in limited supply in the OPs situation...perhaps by those in both roles.
My NPCs sometimes break character creation rules. (Especially when I had 9 Players at one point. Whoa.)
My Players know it.
I see the ultimate rule part of the game is that everyone is having fun. I do agree with Cranewings that, at least the style of game that I play, ends up being more interactive/group story telling than a game.
While their might be better systems, people like rules. Rules are fun, they give boundaries. When you have sufficient rule mastery, you can than break rules. This is where story telling comes in. Authors, who have mastered a grammar system, will frequently break the rules of grammar to create a feel or make a point. I think that this is why they created Rule 0.
Well, this post looks like a muddle mess, so take with it what you will.
u mad?Well...
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We play basketball.
We never really keep score, and when we do, we use a system of fouls, and anti-fouls, though this can change at any time. Most of the time we don't use a ball, because it is more about being on the court with friends, and I don't like balls.
This is basketball, the experience, the activity, not the game.
We play basketball.
We never really keep score, and when we do, we use a system of fouls, and anti-fouls, though this can change at any time. Most of the time we don't use a ball, because it is more about being on the court with friends, and I don't like balls.
This is basketball, the experience, the activity, not the game.
This feels very zen to me. Next time I meditate, I'm going to repeat this over and over again to myself.
