To Loremaster or not to Loremaster?

[Jace Knightly]

I'm looking at starting a Wizard in Pathfinder society play.

My plan is a Knowledgeable Diviner(Foresight). But my problem comes from deciding if I want to go Loremaster or not.

At level one I plan on having a greensting Scorpion familiar (+2 initiative), and Breadth of experience. Traits (Warrior of old and Focused mind).

my problem is what to do after a few lvls. Loremaster fits the idea and has tons of useful stuff but requires 3 meta magics and skill focus (knowledge(any)) which is redundant with breadth of experience. Which leaves me absolutely no feats to spare for survivability like toughness or improved initiative.

Opinions? Ideas?

Also, is greensting +2 or +4 my UM book says +2 online paizo site says +4

Edit: Failed to mention race is Elven due to the Breadth of knowledge feat

Given that I go elf the stat block looks like

str 7
dex 16
con 10
int 20
wis 10
cha 10

Or

str 7
dex 18
con 12
int 20
wis 7
cha 7

[Jace Knightly]

Initial posting was a little screwy so I'm hoping by cleaning it up I might get a little advice.

Althax
PFS 20 point buy

Race: Elven
Class Diviner (foresight School)
Faction: Osirion

Ability Scores (20 Point Buy)
Str: 7
Dex: 16
Con: 10
Int: 20
Wis: 10
Cha: 10

Skills:

Craft(Traps)(more for flavor and fun than anything)
Knowledge(arcana)
Knowledge(dungeoneering)
Knowledge(History)
Knowledge(Local)
Knowledge(Planes)
Spellcraft

(putting ranks into the rest of the knowledge at lvl 2)

Familiar: Greensting Scorpion (+2 initiative)

Traits: Reactionary (+2 initiative),
Focused mind (+2 Concentration)

School powers:

(paraphrasing the powers)
Forewarned: Always act in surprise round and 1/2 Wizard lvl to initiative, min +1.
Prescience: 3+int times per day roll a d20 to replace a roll before my next turn.

Feats
1: Breadth of Knowledge
W: Skill Focus (conjuration?)
3: Metamagic or Toughness
5: Metamagic or improved initiative
W5: Metamagic
7: Skill Focus (Knowledge) or Something

Ok, bottom line is I dunno what direction to take this character. Given that he has a +8 initiative bonus at level 1 with a few more initiative bonuses this character can be a first striking machine. Which with the right spells could be great.

Other than going first the character concept is to be vastly knowledgeable and have good utility. I fully intend to invest heavily in scrolls as the game progresses to add utility.

Loremaster seemed to be a cool Prc for him but it's pretty demanding for feats and he has to live that long.

Does anyone have any suggestions for Prc or to just continue straight wizard and why.

Honestly this is my first pathfinder wizard and after reading a tons random wizard threads and guides I could use a little advice all around.

[Alexander Kilcoyne]

Perhaps i'll write more later but the comment that screams out at me is- 10 Con? Ouch!

[Jace Knightly]

I know, lately my knee jerk reaction is to dump charisma so I've been trying to avoid doing it so much.

[Remco Sommeling]

I'd take wisdom and/or charisma down 2 (both) or 3 (one) points, to raise constitution up to 12, I do not think metamagic feats are that great to learn 3 of them, skill knowledge is nice but a bit too much, eventually you will gain something back on the bonus feats from Loremaster but not before level 12 and you sacrifice the abilities of a full classed wizard.

Personally I do not see the added value in PFS play, I'd just go full wizard.

[Gnoll Coward]

Jace Knightly wrote:

Also, is greensting +2 or +4 my UM book says +2 online paizo site says +4

It was changed to +4 in the errata to UM.

[Alexander Kilcoyne]

Seriously? Why on earth would they raise it...

[LazarX]

You don't need to start with an intelligence of 20, especially not in PFS, which is not a campaign that requires munchkin min-maxing of stats. Being a bit more reasonable in that stat, will do wonders for your attribute budget.

[Remco Sommeling]

Alexander Kilcoyne wrote:

Seriously? Why on earth would they [i]raise[/i[ it...

agreed it seems silly, give it the power of a full feat, a popuplar feat for casters to boot and fully stackable.. compared to other familiars.. piazo devs really have an odd sense of balance sometimes

[Jace Knightly]

I think this is the first errata that has played in my favor. Thanks for the clarification. I was considering dropping the int, even just dropping it to 19 frees up another 4 points and still lets me hit 20 at lvl 4. Thanks for you input guys! Especially loving that my greensting just got better!

[StreamOfTheSky]

Do full wizard, it's stronger than Loremaster AND less effort/thought.

[Ciaran Barnes]

You really do not need a 20 starting int. Its just hurting the rest of your ability scores.

[NoneParticular]

If you REALLY want all knowledge checks to be stupid high for your character, go two levels Alchemist(Mindchemist) simply for the Perfect Recall ability.

Adds your Intelligence bonus on any knowledge check, twice. So, right now you have a 20 int? That means your knowledge base skills all get +10, you also get the Cognategen ability to boost your intelligence even more, +4 to int.

Since your a wizard too, use Fox's Cunning. All your Knowledge skills now have at least a +18 to the check. That's not including the ranks and magic items you have, if any.

I'd say, at about level 5, if you have a 20 Int, and you take 2 levels Mindchemist and 3 wizard, you should have 39 points to use for skills. If you take an extra skill point once in place of an extra hit point each time you gain a level in your favored class, You'll have 40 skill points. So 4 ranks in every Knowledge. You also get 3 extra since they are all trained.

So, at lv 5 if you use your spells and abilities, you can have +25 to any knowledge check and not have used any feats.

[Corlindale]

Well, Loremaster seems to be a fairly balanced prc, in that you make a significant sacrifice and get a comparable bonus. Whether it's worth it is up to you.

The loss of survival-style feats is not a huge issue, since you can recover toughness with a loremaster secret, and the bonus feat you get can also be put to good use here.

I ultimately decided against Loremaster with my Diviner wizard, despite actually having taken enough feats to meet the requirement. My reasoning was:
1. I already had very good knowledge skills, thanks to high int and breadth of experience, so the boost wouldn't be felt as much.
2. My school powers would stop progressing, and I wouldn't get the nice aura at level 8 with the Foresight school.
3. I would lose favored class bonus, which would partly negate the bonus of additional skill points on LM.
4. No free spells on level-up. Since our campaign didn't always have lots of downtime, I felt it could on occasion be a significant disadvantage not to get the two free spells on level up, even if it might not be a huge deal wealth-wise.

Also, I agree with the other posters that your stats could be more balanced. I would personally go with a 19 Int - then you can afford decent Con and Dex too.

[Jace Knightly]

SO, Thanks for all the advice, it's been very helpful. I've decided against the loremaster Prc. and I've dropped my int to 19 allowing me to balance out my ability scores and have more than a 10 con.

Additionally I bumped breadth of Knowledge to 3rd level feat in favor of toughness at first, the plus to Knowledge is cool but I absolutely hate having less than 10hp.

Thanks again for the help

[LazarX]

I'm playing with a Loremaster in Legendsof the Shining Jewel and it's worked out wonderfully with the concept I had in mind from the get go... the classic sage wizard. My starting Int budget was 16 which got bumped to 18 when the campaign converted to Pathfinder.