i hear all this martial versus caster stuff and it makes me wretch.
how about we have a party composition contest?
every contestant will create a party of 5 characters according to the guidelines and explain how they deal with each of the listed scenarios. this isn't so much a competitive contest as much as seeing how the different party compositions work together.
1; your group has to negotiate with the king of another country to stop a war as soon as possible. your home is on the verge of losing to the opposing nation and the treaty must be made in haste. you have to worry about an onslaught of hired assassins, monsters, and mercenaries of various sorts
2; your group gets captured, imprisoned and stripped of all thier equipment, and you have to escape the complex prison through a series of complex mazes back to civilization
3; your group gets hired to clear a tribe of (insert level appropriate humanoid here) so that your people can gain access to an important resource.
4; you are shopping in a metropolis that doesn't like your kin. you really need supplies but everyone is unfriendly or worse towards you. how do you get the supplies?
5. you are investigating a dungeon in the hopes of plundering treasure, the foes are level appropriate and mixed composition and the traps are nasty. you need that rare artifact as soon as possible to stop the evil lich king from destroying the world. how do you go about it?
6. you have been given 1 year to clear out an unnamed land and start a colony. it takes 3 months to travel both ways by sea and is impossible by foot. there are no stores or trading outposts, no towns, but there are ruins and indigenous tribes to barter with. how do you go about it?
spoilers for party contructers
Party of 5 Characters, 1 Martial, 1 Arcane Caster, 1 Divine Caster, 1 Skill Monkey and 1 Hybrid.
Elite array
5th level
10,000 gold. no more than 3,000 of which can be spent on one item.
every character gets a free adventuring kit
no crafting discounts
1 mundane backpack
1 waterskin
enough food to cover the sustenance requirements of the adventure
1 dagger
1 free outfit worth 10 gold pieces or less with a free change of undergarments for those embarassing moments
1 50 foot coil of hempen rope
1 flint/steel
500 gold pieces worth of misc potions and scrolls
I'm not trying to knock on your thing here, but if you are really interested in seeing how various combinations of party compositions can handle obstacles, you don't want to require specific roles to be filled, such as "1 Martial, 1 Arcane Caster, ..."
You will see a greater creative use of classes if they don't HAVE to play by such specific rules.
I'm not trying to knock on your thing here, but if you are really interested in seeing how various combinations of party compositions can handle obstacles, you don't want to require specific roles to be filled, such as "1 Martial, 1 Arcane Caster, ..."
You will see a greater creative use of classes if they don't HAVE to play by such specific rules.
i guess we can ignore that requirement.
My first thoughts are sorcerer (most any bloodline), sandman bard, druid (with companion), unbreakable fighter, grenadier alchemist. I see this as a very versatile group. The sorcerer will be able to deal with unforseen surprises and the gear-stripping better than a wizard. Sandman bard has all sorts of nifty rogue abilities with good spellcasting and great social skills. Probably combat ability too. Druid will help a ton with the untamed wilderness, for obvious reasons, and a full druid companion is always nice. Fighter because you need a muscle man (druid and alchemist are his backups, though, so he's not alone). Alchemist would probably be bomber-focused, but melee capable thanks to some mutagen discoveries. His extracts will provide all sorts of versatility, as will his crafting. That's probably all the detail I'll go into, but it seems like a fun and, more importantly for this particular exercise, effective party. They have lots of magic, prepared and spontaneous, and plenty of physical might as well. They'll also be good against casters; the sandman bard has his stealspell and such, the fighter will have great saves, the alchemist will definitely have dispelling bomb, delivered through a bow when necessary, and the sorcerer may even make use of counterspelling (:O).
My thoughts are:
Paladin (martial fighter, decent diplomacy, noble connections, undead obliterator)
Oracle (divine caster, excellent diplomatic skills, interesting abilities)
Witch (great versatility for just about anything without being vulnerable to spell-book loss)
Rogue (still the best trapspringer in the business, useful for the streetwise contacts when official channels fail)
Monk (great backup man, and with equipment gone he comes into his own brilliantly)
Archer bard party face with buffs and skills providing ranged damage, normal twf rogue providing skills and sneak attacking(at a higher level i would give this guy keen kukri's and butterfly sting), cavalier shield tank order of the bro with bodyguard also provides survival skill and intimidate for the rogue to shatter once they both have the feat trees then upgrades to a pick/shield combo when the rogue gets butterfly sting(basicly one shot kills after the rogue passes a crit), diviner wizard with a crossblooded sorc dip provides artillery and control effects necromancy and illusion are barred schools also provides massive knowledge skill checks so between wizard and bard party always knows whats going on, dual cursed life oracle providing rerolls and healing/shielding with a reach weapon to attack past the cavalier. Everyone is human and took lookout as a bonus feat.
1. Bard wins diplomacy with spell bonuses and oracle aid another. If we get jumped my entire team act in the surprise round, rerolls from the life oracle makes the sos spells stick and the party can set up in a very strong line.
2. We always act in the surprise round and we got captured by GM fiat, then we have to wander through a long boring maze with no encounters? Sounds time consuming but not challenging. Rogue takes the lead, oracle can still cast as much as it wants, cavalier will pick up the first weapon it sees since it doesn't specialise, bard is a skill/buff monkey, wizard gets boned by the badly written plot unless the GM happens to leave some toys to help the wizard out nearby.
3. Hack and slash with bard buffs and haste. The oracle/rogue/cavalier working in a line to chop through melee. Wizard can blast or control as required. Life oracle has no trouble with emergency healing.
4. Charm from the wizard or bard, diplomacy from the bard or oracle, theivery from the rogue. There are a few ways around it, probably start with diplomacy then steal and use charm as back up.
5. We don't do dying, wizard opens with blast or control, bard buffs and shoots, rogue gets flank with cavalier and the oracle uses its polearms from behind the cavalier. Rerolls from the oracle and free teamwork feats from the cavalier keep everyone alive.
6. A combination of everything above, once i have diplomanced a king, killed an entire tribe of humanoids, bought gear in an unfriendly city, escaped a trap filled prison and cleared a dungeon complex settling a strange land should prove easy enough.
The rogue could be replaced with an urban ranger shield fighter and then the cavalier could go for a two handed or dual wield build for extra damage from his challenge ability. Having an extra front liner might work out better than the rogue.
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Fighter or Paladin takes on Meat Shield Duty. Paladin if Good party, Fighter if not.
Sorcerer (Infernal) plays Arcanist. With Human favored class bonus, he knows more than enough spells for anything that comes up.
Rogue (Scout) fills the role for which he's named. Also serves as "backup" face, probably focusing on Sleight of Hand & Intimidate.
Cleric of Travel & Protection domains keeps everyone on their feet, free of bad conditions, and mixes it up with his weapon of choice. Secondary Meat Shield, as well.
Bard takes on the "fifth man" role, serving as Dimplomancer, Party-Buffer-Extraordinaire, archer, knowledge-guy, and all around "get to know me and you'll like me" fellow. He also gets the party into the nicer clubs & parties with his social background & graces.
Everyone takes Lookout (as Egoish suggested), and if possible Stealth (via Trait or just pumping skills as needed).
Your party will not be as effective psi if no one has the diviner always act ability since its possible to fail perception. So i'd recommend giving your cleric the divine strategist archtype to ensure everyone always acts, you sacrifice channel and a domain.
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Your party will not be as effective psi if no one has the diviner always act ability since its possible to fail perception. So i'd recommend giving your cleric the divine strategist archtype to ensure everyone always acts, you sacrifice channel and a domain.
D'oh...forgot about that!
Perhaps the Bandit Archetype on our little Rogue, then? Or as you suggest the Divine Strategist. Channel is awfully nice, though, and a Protection Cleric is a damn tough nut to crack in melee.
(Basically less Rocket Tag and more Shotgun Crouching...)
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1. Be the hired assassins... or at least a group do 4 rogues and a meat shield fighter type. Use each rogue as a different kind of skill monkey - Int 18 to 20, giving them 14 or 15 skill ranks per level = 75 skill ranks, should cover most things... another rogue as an intimidate monkey - feat accordingly. Two ranged high dex rogues with the ability to swap dex for damage and fire extra arrows. That should cover 5th level combat... Anyway: Intimidating the King - 5 + 4 Cha + 2 feat + 3 class skill + whatever else you can add in (I would have added a circlet of persuasion...). So that is 14 base roll. Even on a 1, the King has to be level 6 or higher to resist signing.
2. Rogues... escape... ok... also, one of the rogues (the int one) has major magic Chill Touch and can attack bonds with it (and cast it while bound). Sneak attack damage applies?
3. Mean, but the meat shield out front backed up by raining 6 arrows a round works...
4. Disguise. Bluff. Intimidate. Nuf Said.
5. They shouldn't be fighting a LICH KING at level 5... but yeh, Rogues work.
6. Set up 5 colonial towns, one run by each underworld boss who meet in council every month to see how things are going... Crafting (houses) finally came in handy!
As far as magic items would go: 3 basic +1 weapons (6k). A handy haversack. The rest would probably go into scrolls of cure light wounds (since 4 out of 5 in the party can use them OK). If the 10k was PER person, they would all get a +1 weapon, haversack, efficient quiver and the rest in curing scrolls (disease, curse, healing).
alternate to meatshield "fighter" is 1/2/1/1 fighter/barbarian/paladin/ranger
bab +5 - saves 9/2/2 (or take a monk instead of barb 2 for +4 bab and 10/4/4 - saves like a 14th lvl fighter instead of 5th)
Below is my entry: 5 clerics, all of different races. Now, for the scenarios:
1. "Face" can negotiate _like a baws_. If we expect assassins, a round of Delay Poison gets us through the banquet. Also, 66 daily dice of channel energy provide endurance for fights. Party has access to Fly and Invisibility to bypass obstacles and get to the negotiating table.
2. 3 members of the party can cast even if deprived of equipment.
3. AoE damage is not so great. Try to get a few healing breaks (a few turns) in the middle of the fighting. Also, 66 dice of channel energy.
4. +19 Diplomacy, and I've probably left a few bonii lying on the table. If that fails, f!$+'em, memorize Create Food and Water.
5. Scout handles traps, Brute and Archer clear mooks, 66 channeling dice+shield other, B.C. pits the tough melee foes. Also, Locate Object.
6. Just go. Negotiate and/or kill everything into submission. In 4 levels, Teleport becomes an option.
Face
½elf Cleric of Kofusachi
Str 8 dex 10 con 11 int 12 Wis 14 Cha 18
Racial: Low-light vision, Adaptability, Elf Blood, Elven immunities, Keen Senses, Multitalented
Feats: Rhetorical Flourish, Skill Focus: Diplomacy (racial), Persuasive, Selective Channeling.
Traits: Bluff + Intimidate skill trait.
Skills: Diplomacy +17, Intimidate +15, Bluff +13, Sense Motive +10
Domains: Travel (Trade)(+10 speed)(swift action +2 bluff/diplomacy/sense motive 5/day), Chaos (touch of chaos 5/day)
Domain spells
3: Fly/MCA-Law
2: Locate object/Align Weapon
1: Floating Disk/ProtFromLaw
Channel Energy 3d6 7/day
Scout
Halfling Cleric (Varisian Pilgrim) of Sun Wukong
Domains: Travel (Exploration)(+10 speed)(door sight 6/day), Trickery (class skills)(copycat 8½/day)
Str 6 Dex 16 Con 10 Int 12 Wis 16 Cha 13
Racial: Small, fearless, halfling luck, keen senses, swift as shadows, weapon familiarity
Skills: Stealth +22, Perception +20, Disable Device +18
Traits: skill trait disable device, birthmark
Feats: Skill Focus Perception, Skill Focus Disable Device, weapon finesse
Equipment: Eyes of the Eagle, Goggles of Minute Seeing, Cloak of Elvenkind, master thieves, stealth and perception tools.
Domain spells: Expeditious retreat/disguise self, locate object/invisibility, fly/nondetection
B.C.
Dwarf Cleric (Theologian) of Torag
Domains: Earth (caves)
Feats: Spell Focus (Conjuration), Varisian Tatoo (Conjuration), Improved Initiative
Traits: Birthmark, Glory of old
Skills: Heal +12.
Str 11 Dex 10 Con 16 Int 8 Wis 18 Cha 12 (Hit points 48)
Spells: Extended Spiked Pit*3, Create Pit*3 Shield Other, Magic Stone 4*CLW
Archer
Human Cleric (Mendevian Priest) of Erastil
Str 14, Dex 10, Con 11, Int 8, Wis 18, Cha 12
Feats: Point Blank shot, rapid shot, channel smite, guided hand
Domains: Plant
Equipment: +1 full plate, +1 composite longbow, assorted Bane arrows, stuff.
Brute
½orc Cleric of Gozreh
Domains: Wolf, Plant (Growth)
Feats: Improved Trip (bonus), Combat Reflexes, Power Attack, Cleave
Str 16, Dex 14, Con 11, int 8, wis 14, cha 10
Racial: Ferocity, darkvision
Traits: heirloom weapon (horse cutter, proficiency), bite attack
Domain spells: Enlarge Person/hunter's howl, Barkskin/bloodhound, Aspect of the Wolf/Plant Growth. Also memorizes greater magic weapon.