Hi all, in a week or so my group will be continuing our pathfinder campaign. we are level 8 right now and until then I was playing the main melee character as a barbarian. However, even with the high BAB, rage powers, and damage he did. I feel I want a change of pace and a touch spell power . So i was thinking of going a battle cleric. I know in 3.5 they were beasts, but can they still be in PF? Right now our group consist of elf wizard, elf paladin(archer), human sorcerer, halfling bard, and dwarf cleric. So I think my concept of a battle cleric would fit well, if I focus on the melee part, but also I would like to keep my wisdom up to get the 9th level spells.
So here is what I thought of, Human Cleric of Gorum. Domains I thought would be good would be War(tactics) and Glory(Heroism). What do you guys think of Ftr1/Clr7? Would that help me more or is full cleric class is better? Well here is what I thought as a build for now. 25 point buy and only pathfinder books allowed.
Human cleric of Gorum level 8
Domains: War(tactics) and Glory(heroism)
Str: 18 (racial +2, +1 level bump)
Dex: 12
Con: 15
Int: 12
Wis: 16 (+1 level bump)
Cha: 10
Feats:
H. Toughness
1. Heavy Armor Prof.
3. Improved Initiative
5. Power Attack
7. Furious Focus
9. Extend Spell
11. Combat Casting
13. (open)
15. (open)
17. (open)
19. (open)
That is what I came up with. Honestly I'm not sure what other feats to focus on after level 11, More combat or metamagic feats? Also for level stat bumps, I was thinking going Con for level 12 and then Wis for the rest of them. If you have an magic item that boosts your wisdom, that affects what spell level you can cast, correct? Thanks for any advice, I want to be a melee combat beast.
Go for oracle - they make even better melee-beasts
Oracle of Battle, fauchard, surprising charge (seriously this is AWESOME!), war sight, weapon and maneuver mastery (trip), maybe the combat healer revelation, maybe even EH-feats (orc) and you will be facing one of the highest CMB scores possible. Damage will be awesome as well thanks to amazing to hit and divine favor/righteous might, fauchard with high crit-range and great spell access.
edit: maybe dip 2 levels of paladin
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Are you starting at lvl 8? Go cleric lvl 6 then holy vindicator prestige class.
Are you starting at lvl 8? Go cleric lvl 6 then holy vindicator prestige class.
You need cleric 7 to get into HV, and if you've got a domain whose second power is at 8th level, you'll want that, too. Though you can always go Cleric 7 HV 1 Cleric 1 HV 9 (or whatever). Also note that a couple levels of inquisitor will get you some nice skill bonuses to knowledge and perception as a class skill, wisdom to initiative, and will still advance those domains. Judgement 1/day, a couple other toys like detect evil at will. Gimps your spellcasting but if you're not worried about that it's worth a look. Judgement gives you something to do with your swift action.
@Wasum: I have seen the oracle class and i agree they do have some benefits, but I have to wait a level longer for spells and I won't have the flexbility of choosing my spells each day. I actually like the concept of a holy warrior and wanted to go the cleric route because of that. The oracle to me feels less flexible and doesnt have some features I would like. However, thanks I might consider but I really wanted to go cleric, is the new battle priest a oracle and not cleric anymore??
@Archmage Nex: yes, we are continuing from level 8.
@MyTThor: Thanks for the idea of HV and the Inquistor, but honestly I would want to keep my full casting, so I can have the most high level of spells asap. I want to go the cleric route because of that or I would have gone paladin lol. Thanks but cleric is what I want, but if oracle is better than that makes me sad :(.
Also side note should I dump cha to 8 and int to 10, so I can have con 16? I won't be using channels really, hence why no HV because they use the channel ability the most. Thanks, keep it coming :)
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If you have an magic item that boosts your wisdom, that affects what spell level you can cast, correct?
Permanent Bonuses: Ability bonuses with a duration greater than 1 day actually increase the relevant ability score after 24 hours. Modify all skills and statistics related to that ability. This might cause you to gain skill points, hit points, and other bonuses. These bonuses should be noted separately in case they are removed.
Yes the main battle priest for a large group is oracle.
Choosing spells dose not help battle priest. It hurts them with spells known you can cast the spell you need at any time. Almost all cleric spell list look the same after a point. They might change the spells if they know what there fighting. Over all it will stay the same most of the time.
What features do you like about the Cleric? For me I like the features of the oracle far better then I do the cleric. Make a list of what your looking to do. Then compare the cleric and oracle. You might be surprised when you compare the two.
(This is my example of Cleric Vs. Oracle. This is just my opinion of the advantages of each. I can do a build for a cleric but it will take some time. As I have not make a battle cleric sense the APG. Due to my opinion oracles fill the role better.)
Skills
Cleric(2) < Oracle(4)
BAB
Cleric(3/4) = Oracle(3/4)
Saves
Cleric(2Good) > Oracle(1Good)
Spell Casting : With a good understanding of the spell list. There are so few good spells on the list for buffing. That even with the limited spells known. You can still get them all and the remove X as a oracle. Combined with the more castings per day and casting them on the fly as needed. With that the Cleric dose have the advantage of using Wis for casting. Combined with a good will save makes them a tough target for that type of spell. The Oracle on the other hand uses Cha for casting. Allowing them to be the party face, combat effective, and divine caster.
Cleric < Oracle
Domain Powers VS. Revelations : The best comparison I can come up with is. Domain powers are more versatile but limited in effect. Revelations are more focused but have greater effect. And sense your focus in most cases better. And the battle preist is no exception.
Cleric < Oracle
With a 25 Point buy. My Oracle looks something like this.
Human
Str 16 +2 Human +2 Level 4,&8 = Total 20
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 12
Wis 8
Cha 14
Initiative : +6 Roll 2 Dice keep one
Fauchard +2 To Hit +14/9 Damage 1D10+9 Crit 15-20/X2
Power Attack To Hit +12/7 Damage 1D10+15
Curse : This is personal preference. I like haunted but not the best choice for a combat character.
Skill Ranks Total : 48
Feet's : Improved Initiative, Extra Revelation: War Sight, Exotic Weapon Fauchard, Power Attack, Improved Over Run, (9th: Charge Though)
Revelations :
Skill at Arms : heavy armor, all martial weapons.
War Sight : Roll 2 Dice for Initiative keep one.
You can always act in the surprise round, but if you fail to notice the ambush, you act last.
Weapon Mastery : Fauchard : Weapon Focus, Improved Critical.
Maneuver Mastery : Trip : Trip CMB uses class level. Improved Trip(Feet)
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Her is a battle cleric build that is a bit difrent from what you came up with. I recomed not taking levels in fighter.
Human Worship Shelyn
Str 16 +2 Human +2 level = total 20
Dex 12
Con 14
Int 14
Wis 14
Cha 8
Initiative +9
A divine strategist can always act in a surprise round even if she fails to make a Perception check to notice enemies, though he is considered flat-footed until he acts.
Allies able to see and hear the divine strategist gain a bonus on initiative +2
Glave +2 To Hit +13/8 Damage 1D10+9 Crit 20/X3
Power Attack +11/6 Damage 1D10+15
Skill Ranks Total : 40
Feet's : Improved Initiative, Combat Reflexes, Power Attack, Furious Focus, Weapon Focus Glave
Caster Support
Tactical Expertise
Domain : Protectin(Defense)
Granted Power +2 resistance bonus to all saves
Deflection Aura 1/Day
You can emit a 20- foot aura for a number of rounds equal to your cleric level. Allies within the aura gain a +2 deflection bonus to AC and combat maneuver defense.
Aura of Protection 8round/day
You and your allies within this aura gain a +1 deflection bonus to AC and resistance 5 against all elements (acid, cold, electricity, fire, and sonic).
Edit : If your using traits both will get a big bost from reactionary.
I have been looking through the cleric class and the oracle class to see what I would like more or what I feel would be better in the end and I have to say the oracle looks good. However, these are the two builds I thought of for a battle priest, using cleric as one and the other oracle. I choose the greatsword as my main weapon, I just love using a big friggin sword :D. What do you guys think is a better build? Thanks
Human Cleric 7/Holy Vindicator 1 (travel and strength domains)
Str: 20 (racial +2, +2 level bump)
Dex: 12
Con: 14
Int: 13
Wis: 14
Cha: 10
Weapon: +1 Greatsword +13/+8 2d6+8 19-20/x2
Feats: Improved Initiative(Human), Power attack, Furious Focus, Weapon Focus(Greatsword), Toughness, Alignment channel(bonus feat from houserule)
Ranks: 32
Powers: agile feet, strength surge.
Later, I was thinking of going maybe combat expertise->improved trip because at my 8th power for the strength domain of cleric I get "Might of the Gods" to help with strength checks, is that a good route to go? Also the only think I really like is the "Dimension Hop" from the 8th level power of the travel domain.
Human Oracle 8 (battle)
Str: 20 (racial +2, +2 level bump)
Dex: 14
Con: 14
Int: 10
Wis: 10
Cha: 14
Weapon: +1 Greatsword +13/+8 2d6+8 17-20/x2
Feats: Improved Initiative(Human), Toughness, Power Attack, Furious Focus, Extra Revelation(War sight), Extra Revelation(Weapon Mastery)[Bonus feat from houserules]
Ranks: 40
Revelations: War Sight, Weapon Mastery(greatsword), Skill at Arms, Surprising Charge, Maneuver Mastery(Improved Trip)
Now, This looks pretty strong and good for a battle priest I have to admit. However, I know I will lose some flexibility, but I keep forgetting we have a dwarf cleric and he focuses on spellcasting. So I just need to figure out what are the best spells for a combat caster and what are good feats for the later levels? Any Advice? Thanks
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I like the Oracle better. I am not a fan of the Holy Vindicator so that is not saying much. You might want to exchange toughness for a difrent feet. It's not a bad feet. But there are other feet's that might be better for you.
Oracle : Feet's : Improved Initiative, Extra Revelation: War Sight, Extra Revelation: Weapon Mastery, Power Attack, Imporoved Over Run, Charge Though.
Charge Though + Surprising Charge = Very powerful combination.
Charge Through (Combat): When making a charge, you can attempt to overrun one creature in the path of the charge as a free action. If you successfully overrun that creature, you can complete the charge. If the overrun is unsuccessful, the charge ends in the space directly in front of that creature.
Surprising Charge (Ex): You can move up to your speed as an immediate action.
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you plan on being a cleric with a 10 cha? channel negative energy is a power house. i would change alignment channel into selective channel and go with a neutral god. then smash with inflict spells + a spell storing weapon.
i see you want to trip, but the feat investment wouldnt be worth it. tripping loses its punch at about 10ish when everything flys, teleports, or has to many legs to be tripped. its still useful sometimes... but its not going to make you feel like those feats were well spent. nuke your int to 10, knock your cha to 15 and lower your strength to 18. i think that would be a better character.
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With ether the cleric or oracle. Getting your hands on a spell storing great sword can be very useful. You can store up to a level 3 spell and have it go off when you want hit if you wish. I end up storing a hold person or bestow curse. Both are effective debuff's that will hamper the enemy.
Bestow Curse : This hurts. All you do is take 50% chance of taking no action.
Blindness-Deafness : This is very effective vs. most arcane casters. As it is a fort save. And if there blind they can not have line of sight to have line of effect.
Invisibility Purge : OMG this will save you with out any full casters in the party. You might not need it much. But there is no replacement for when you do.
Blessing of Fervor : Haste with extras yes pleas.
BTW I recommend getting the Inner Sea Magic book if you play very Meany casters. As there are so many good archetypes and spells in the book. For your character.
Crusader's Edge : bane vs evil outsiders + crit effect nauseate
Eaglessoul : can grant a +4 sacred bonus to Star.
Forceful Strike(casting time: 1 Swift Action) : Extra force damage after I hit yes pleas. 1D4 force damage per level max 10D4 + Bull Rush effect.
Geniekind : You don't get fly like a arcane caster. This gives you 1 of 3 types of movement. Djinni : Fly , Marid : Swim , Shaitan : Burrow.
Martyr's Bargain : This is a tricky one. It can save you if you understand how it work. Not recommend if you don't understand how it will help.
Weapon Wand : but a cure wand in to your weapon for 1min/level. Then you can use the wand as it is in your hand.
@BlueEyedDevil: Right about the domains, hence I rechanged my builds and posted two different kinds. One with cleric and one with oracle. However, I feel the oracle would fit better because we already have a cleric. So I can focus on the battle aspect and a little of the other areas.
For spells, I will definitely get divine favor, divine power, and righteous might I will get for free as an oracle. But the debuffs are hard to choose because I don't have a high charisma to make them work well =/. Grace sounds good and as well instant armor, but the other debuffs I'm not sure about, I think archon aura's works only if they fail and if they hit me it breaks as well?
@TheSideKick: actually I think the inflict spells wouldnt help as much. It would only work on one attack and not when I would do a full attack you know? Also I picked alignment channel for the cleric build, so i could enter the holy vindicator class. But now it is irrelevant because I think the oracle is a better choice for me now as a battle priest :D.
@calagnar: I agree, some debuffs would be good, but wish ones? I'm going oracle, so I don't have a many choices to choose from and my DC won't be that high that the enemy will easily by past it. Some of those spells look greats :D. Like Geniekind, Eaglesoul, and Crusader's edge. However, what kind of debuffs should I get as an oracle if my charisma won't be as high to resist?
Now on a side note, I have decided on going oracle with the build I posted previously. But I notice the human oracle can get a favor bonus in picking spells one level lower than there highest level casted. Thats something right? I could got 10 levels after 10th level to get some more 2nd, 3rd, and 4th spells.
Also I have feats open and I was wondering should I go the Eldritch Heritage route and get up to improve? So then I use the orc or abyssal line powers to give myself inherent Str bonus?
Also whats a good curse for a battle character? Tongues or Haunted?
Also what kind of good spells should I pick besides the obvious buffs spells(divine favor, divine power, and righteous might) for a battle oracle character? Thanks for anymore advice :). I'm more used to wizard and cleric and I'm not use to limited spells =/.
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For debuffs you only need a few. You need one for fort, and will save. As it will let you attack there lower save. And take cure all the time if you have a choice the damage from inflect is to low.
I like Bestow Curse(Will) this will reduce combat type monsters, Blindness-Deafness(Fort) this will take care of all the casters, And hold person(Will) combinded with spell storing weapon for insta death.
My best spell suggetions. (Did not list any you get from mystery.)
0 Level : Detect Magic, Create Water, Light, Mending, Stabilize, Purify Food and Drink, Read Magic,
Level 1 : Bless, Divine Favor, Shield of Faith, Sun Metal
Level 2 : Grace, Hold Person, Resist Energy, Lesser Restoration, Weapon of Awe, (if good) Spear of Purity.
Level 3 : Bestow Curse, Daylight, Protection from Energy, Remove Curse, Wind Wall, Invisibility Purge,
Level 4 : Blessing Fervor, Divine Power, Retoration, Forceful Strike(This one is realy good. With it being cast after you hit.)
Level 5 : Holy Ice, Geniekind, Eaglessoul
With that I just don't care for the Eldritch Heritage feet's. One it takes 2 feet's to get somthing out, Two it takes 3 feet's to get the Str effect you want. Yes over all it will incress you to hit and damage. I'm just not convenced it's worth the cost.
Good curse for a battle oracle. Stay away from Haunted unless it's for RP. Tongues is not bad and with a cleric to heal. The normal problems with it should not come up.
I'm a huge fan of battle field mobility over AC. That is why hardly any of my characters use medium or heavy armor. Speed and mobility win more fights then a few extra points of AC. Rule one of fighting: You have to be at the battle to win the battle.
hmmm true I thinking having one debuff would be good to have to affect the weakest save of some creatures. Thanks for the advice.
Here are the spells I though of for my level 8 character.
level 0: Create water, detect magic, light, purify food and drink, stabilize, read magic, mending, and spark.
level 1: Divine Favor, Protection from Evil, Shield of Faith, Magic Weapon, and Bless.
level 2: Lesser Restoration, Grace, and Resist Energy
level 3: Channel Vigor and Invisibility Purge or Display Magic
level 4: Blessing of Fervor
I'm thinking higher levels I would get some of the remove x magic and maybe swapping resist energy for some other spell like instant armor or effortless armor and when I gain a new 3rd spell I can get the communal resist energy. Also I was thinking of waiting to get Divine power at higher level because Divine Favor gives me +3 and it won't be worth getting Divine power until it gives me +4.
Also I'm thinking of getting the tongues curse, it should be good to use and will be funny in battle. When my allies keep getting confused with my celestial language lol.
Also since Eldritch Heritage does take a while to get the inherent bonus. What other good feats would be good to get then? How about the intimidate feats? Like Dazzling Display and Intimidating Prowess, so then I can put fear into a lot of enemies? Because I will have high str and cha. Thanks for the advice again I'm really getting into this character and its my first oracle :D.
Also the substitute level bonus for your favor class for human oracles, is getting a spell known at your highest - 1. I mean is that good to get? So I can have more spells known, even if it is a level lower to your highest you can cast?
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hmmm true I thinking having one debuff would be good to have to affect the weakest save of some creatures. Thanks for the advice.
Here are the spells I though of for my level 8 character.
level 0: Create water, detect magic, light, purify food and drink, stabilize, read magic, mending, and spark.
level 1: Divine Favor, Protection from Evil, Shield of Faith, Magic Weapon, and Bless.
level 2: Lesser Restoration, Grace, and Resist Energy
level 3: Channel Vigor and Invisibility Purge or Display Magic
level 4: Blessing of FervorI'm thinking higher levels I would get some of the remove x magic and maybe swapping resist energy for some other spell like instant armor or effortless armor and when I gain a new 3rd spell I can get the communal resist energy. Also I was thinking of waiting to get Divine power at higher level because Divine Favor gives me +3 and it won't be worth getting Divine power until it gives me +4.
Blessing of Fervor and Channel Vigor give you almost the same type of combat bonus. So I wold pick one and stick with it. For 3rd level spells taking Invisibility Purge, and Bestow Curse. Then for your level 8 favored class bonus pick up Blindness/Deafness. For your level 6 favored class bonus pick up hold person. Starting out at level 8 gives you a starting gold of 33,000. So starting with a +1 Spell-storing Great Sword is not a bad idea.
Also since Eldritch Heritage does take a while to get the inherent bonus. What other good feats would be good to get then? How about the intimidate feats? Like Dazzling Display and Intimidating Prowess, so then I can put fear into a lot of enemies? Because I will have high str and cha. Thanks for the advice again I'm really getting into this character and its my first oracle :D.
Also the substitute level bonus for your favor class for human oracles, is getting a spell known at your highest - 1. I mean is that good to get? So I can have more spells known, even if it is a level lower to your highest you can cast?
The intimidate feet chain has the same problem the eldritch heritage feet chain has. And over all it is not as effective as the eldritch heritage feet's. Really from where you are at you have all your basic covered. Now it is a matter of filling in what you want for the direction of your character. Picking up bonus spells from your favored class is not a bad idea. Just make sure they are something you will use.
From where your at you might want to think about a few things. Improved Over Run, and Charge Through can add allot to your batter field mobility. Along with improved bull rush, bull rush strike, and greater bull rush. To Finnish out the character. I'm a big fan of combat maneuver's as they can separate you from most other pure damage builds.
hmmm true I thinking having one debuff would be good to have to affect the weakest save of some creatures. Thanks for the advice.
Here are the spells I though of for my level 8 character.
level 0: Create water, detect magic, light, purify food and drink, stabilize, read magic, mending, and spark.
level 1: Divine Favor, Protection from Evil, Shield of Faith, Magic Weapon, and Bless.
level 2: Lesser Restoration, Grace, and Resist Energy
level 3: Channel Vigor and Invisibility Purge or Display Magic
level 4: Blessing of FervorI'm thinking higher levels I would get some of the remove x magic and maybe swapping resist energy for some other spell like instant armor or effortless armor and when I gain a new 3rd spell I can get the communal resist energy. Also I was thinking of waiting to get Divine power at higher level because Divine Favor gives me +3 and it won't be worth getting Divine power until it gives me +4.
Blessing of Fervor and Channel Vigor give you almost the same type of combat bonus. So I wold pick one and stick with it. For 3rd level spells taking Invisibility Purge, and Bestow Curse. Then for your level 8 favored class bonus pick up Blindness/Deafness. For your level 6 favored class bonus pick up hold person. Starting out at level 8 gives you a starting gold of 33,000. So starting with a +1 Spell-storing Great Sword is not a bad idea.
...Also since Eldritch Heritage does take a while to get the inherent bonus. What other good feats would be good to get then? How about the intimidate feats? Like Dazzling Display and Intimidating Prowess, so then I can put fear into a lot of enemies? Because I will have high str and cha. Thanks for the advice again I'm really getting into this character and its my first oracle :D.
Also the substitute level bonus for your favor class for human oracles, is getting a spell known at your highest - 1. I mean is that good to get? So I can have more spells known, even if it is a level lower to your
Thanks for the input calagnar, its been really helpful. I agree that Channel Vigor and Blessing of Fervor are similar but I think Channel Vigor can help me out with my weak Fortitude save and it gives other bonuses to skills and Will saves as well. Isn't that good?
Here is the equipment I think Im going for:
Mithral Full plate
+1 greatsword
amulet of NA
bag of holding I
mstrk warhammer
composite longbow (str +5)
belt of mighty Con +2
headband of Cha +2
mstrk heavy shield
Does anybody think those are good items? Also I keep debating about the Tongues curse and Wasting curse. the wasting hurts charisma checks but it provides quite a bit on bonuses against disease, sicken, and nauseated conditions.
Also I was wondering about spells. That lets say I have resist energy for a 2nd level spell. Would it be wise to get the commnual resist energy for 3rd level and then swap the 2nd level spell for something else later when I can. Is that a good idea for all those communal type of spells?
Also for feats, I'm thinking of great fortitude to help my weak save and then maybe courgon smash to intimidate my foes that I hit :). Do those sound good?
Actually there's more important stuff to spend your feats on. Especially if you want to be awesome!
Actually there's more important stuff to spend your feats on. Especially if you want to be awesome!
Hmmm...thanks for the advice, but could you put some reason behind it and detail, I would appreciate it. Also thats what I'm trying to find out.
Cleric feats are few and far between, so generally you only get to focus on one or two things.
Melee: power attack, weapon focus, furious focus, maybe dodge and toughness
Ranged: PB shot, rapid shot, deadly aim, precise shot, Manyshot -- already were at 9th level
Spellcasting/crafting: extend spell, (greater) spell focus, persistent spell, quicken spell, craft wondrous, craft arms and armor, (greater) spell penetration
Survivability: Dodge, Toughness, great fortitude, lightning reflexes, defensive combat training
Face: Skill focus (sense motive, diplomacy, maybe bluff), Persuasive, Leadership
You only have five feats to ninth level, +1 if you're human, and any of the many courses you take can easily eat up all of them. Trying to do two is difficult with only feat support; three is effectively impossible. You can do some of that with spells, but not all of it.