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two questions came up recently.
1. Hirelings. baggage handlers/porters.
Are these allowed? I know there's a vanity for a porter to carry 100lbs of gear, but are they subject to environmental hazards like freezing to death overnight like the other characters? Can PCs untrained hirelings from the equipment section 1sp/day to come with them and carry stuff on adventures?
2. trained falcon.
a character in a game recently had a trained falcon that he bought in his first session b/c another GM signed off on it. Is that a legal item for someone to purchase in the first steps? he said it was fully trained hawk, with attack/attack. But he was a summoner. I only let him use it b/c I figured it would die, and his eidolon had already been killed for the day. It seems like it violates the one combat pet per scenario limitation.
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1) They are allowed through the Vanity. Any other hirelings you deem to bring along can not affect the scenario mechanically ie slaves, and so on. Hirelings are only affected if the player desires them to be. "Oh, no you killed Nodwick, you B#$*(%^&S!" They are, aside from the vanity ones completey for fluff and flavor.
2) (From Memory) It has to come out of legal source book, with a relevant price, that states the animal is trained. Adventurer's Armory is the likely book for a Falcon/hawk. The one combat pet rule is for in use at a time. So he could have one combat using the hawk, the next the eidolon, and so forth. Summoned creatures don't count against that.
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The CRB prices for hirelings assume no danger pay - people don't go traipsing into an ancient tomb for 1 sp/day! It's a gray area, though; I allow it but charge danger pay (triple price), and they wait outside the tomb (or whatever) with the horses. However, they are absolutely at risk of freezing to death, as are mounts or other animals. However, the hireling can't affect combat, so I guess technically should not be targeted by enemies since that soaks up attacks that "should" have been directed at PCs. But if they happen to be in the blast of a fireball? Too bad.
As to whether a falcon was legal or not... If the player doesn't have the book that the stats are in *and* the Additional Resources list which states the thing is PFS legal, then it isn't legal and you can suspend it from play for that game. It's up to the player to prove that it's legal if it's not something in the Core Assumption.
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Not to contradict you, Scott.
What impact do NPCs, such slaves or vanity-purchased NPCs from the Pathfinder Society Field Guide have on my character?First and foremost, the Leadership feat remains unavailable as a choice in Pathfinder Society. NPCs purchased with Prestige Points out of the Pathfinder Society Field Guide, pages 60-61, continue to provide only the benefits listed under the entries created for the Chronicler, Foreign Contact, Guide, Herald, Hunter, Porter, Seneschal, and Squire. Other than the benefit listed, they have no statistics and can not make any checks involving a dice roll. Slaves or any other NPCs, purchased with gold, are purely roleplaying flavor and have no mechanical benefits because they have no statistics. They can not make any checks involving a dice roll. Creatures that are granted by a class ability, such as animal companions, familiars, eidolons, and mounts have stats and therefore can be utilized in combat, for skill checks, etc...
If it has no statistics, and has no mechanical capabilities beyond what's listed in say the field guide then, it can't be targeted, it can't be hurt, and it can't die. For all intents and purposes, it's pure fluff and flavor.
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It can't die?! So while their master lays frozen to death bundled in cold weather gear failing his dc 20 fort save trying to survive the night, his porter hangs out in shorts, sipping a margarita taking no damage and making no checks?
That's ridiculous. The intent is clearly that they can't make checks or rolls to assist players: assisting to break down a door, knowledge checks etc. other than what the vanity states.
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I'll have to agree with Angelpunk here. They can't affect any rolls, but are still real people that are subject to all the things that normal people are affected by. The rule quoted was created that you can't buy a 1 sp a day hireling and have him give you +2 by assisting on your skill checks.
Just because certain hirelings are RP abstracts, doesn't mean that they are completely fictional constructs. A hireling is still a person. Just because something doesn't have stats spelled out in a game doesn't mean it can't be real. For instance, let's say the PCs are climbing a trail in the mountains. If you wanted to throw yourself off the mountain and fall hundreds of feet onto sharp rocks, your PC would still die, even though the scenario doesn't spell out how much damage you'd take.
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Not to contradict you, Scott.
If it has no statistics, and has no mechanical capabilities beyond what's listed in say the field guide then, it can't be targeted, it can't be hurt, and it can't die. For all intents and purposes, it's pure fluff and flavor.
What impact do NPCs, such slaves or vanity-purchased NPCs from the Pathfinder Society Field Guide have on my character?First and foremost, the Leadership feat remains unavailable as a choice in Pathfinder Society. NPCs purchased with Prestige Points out of the Pathfinder Society Field Guide, pages 60-61, continue to provide only the benefits listed under the entries created for the Chronicler, Foreign Contact, Guide, Herald, Hunter, Porter, Seneschal, and Squire. Other than the benefit listed, they have no statistics and can not make any checks involving a dice roll. Slaves or any other NPCs, purchased with gold, are purely roleplaying flavor and have no mechanical benefits because they have no statistics. They can not make any checks involving a dice roll. Creatures that are granted by a class ability, such as animal companions, familiars, eidolons, and mounts have stats and therefore can be utilized in combat, for skill checks, etc...
It seems clearcut, and this is how I've always been running it, silly though it sometimes may be (with respect to environmental hazards and the like).
But here's a question I just thought of yesterday--the Herald vanity hireling must speak a language, right? I know someone who has a dwarf herald. I assume that means the herald would speak Common and Dwarven. Does that actually mean you could, for instance, have the herald announce your party in Dwarven, even if no one in the party speaks Dwarven? Or to give a more useful example--I've seen a few people with goblin porters. What if you had a kobold herald--can it announce you in Draconic to kobolds or lizardfolk who don't speak Common (a realistic situation that comes up in more than one scenario)? Presumably it speaks those languages. My gut instinct is that the hireling could translate a language that it knows, since this does not require a check, as per the rules you quoted above that it can't do anything requiring a check, but I could also easily see the other side.
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The Herald vanity says nothing about translation. All they are good for is to announce your presence and accomplishments at a social gathering. That's it. I assume that the Herald only speaks the languages you do.
As for the vanity followers that might be with you during an adventure, it may not be "realistic", but they are not affected by the adventure in any way. They are primarily a roleplay mechanism, but may provide a game benefit.
The last game I ran (0-05 Mists of Miwangi) I ruled that a PC's Porter refused to enter the building and would "camp out" just outside the entrance. Upon reflection, it appears I was wrong to not allow the Porter to travel with the party.
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The Herald vanity says nothing about translation. All they are good for is to announce your presence and accomplishments at a social gathering. That's it. I assume that the Herald only speaks the languages you do.
I can certainly see that reading too, but I don't think it's clear. At a social gathering of dwarves, it seems reasonable that a dwarven herald could announce you in Dwarven, even if you don't speak it, but it also makes sense that the GM might limit that due to the rules on the vanity followers.
I personally don't have any of those follower vanities in part because I don't like the meta-ness of their strange immunity, but if I did, I'd expect table variation from GM to GM on the matter I mentioned.
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The last game I ran (0-05 Mists of Miwangi) I ruled that a PC's Porter refused to enter the building and would "camp out" just outside the entrance. Upon reflection, it appears I was wrong to not allow the Porter to travel with the party.
Don I honestly would do something like this if it came up. I would argue that the Vanity NPC would not willingly put themselves in danger so they would stay just outside the dungeon/building and wait for it to be clear before moving on.
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I'll have to agree with Angelpunk here. They can't affect any rolls, but are still real people that are subject to all the things that normal people are affected by. The rule quoted was created that you can't buy a 1 sp a day hireling and have him give you +2 by assisting on your skill checks.
Just because certain hirelings are RP abstracts, doesn't mean that they are completely fictional constructs. A hireling is still a person. Just because something doesn't have stats spelled out in a game doesn't mean it can't be real. For instance, let's say the PCs are climbing a trail in the mountains. If you wanted to throw yourself off the mountain and fall hundreds of feet onto sharp rocks, your PC would still die, even though the scenario doesn't spell out how much damage you'd take.
I normally would agree with you, except here is why I like it the way it is. Random NPC's eat a ton of time. Having to figure out if my 3 NPC's on my paladin were toasted every time an AoE goes off, would be a royal pain. As far as the environment, it doesn't say they do or do not have clothes, so why couldn't they be packing cold weather gear or what not. :P
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So, just to be clear - if, say, a PC Wizard has a super low Str but wants to pay a hireling 1 sp/day to carry a backpack around for him and sometimes hand him items from it - that is PFS-legal?
There was a thread last week discussing porters (a "vanity" which one can buy with Prestige), in which the campaign staff indicated that a porter should not be expected to be "present" in any way during combat -- that would apparently include handing their employer items during combat.
I would expect that a hireling would operate similarly. Can he hand stuff to your wizard outside of combat? Sure. But, during a fight, he's cowering someplace out of the way, and anything he's carrying is likely to be inaccessible to you until the fight is over.
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There was a thread last week discussing porters (a "vanity" which one can buy with Prestige), in which the campaign staff indicated that a porter should not be expected to be "present" in any way during combat -- that would apparently include handing their employer items during combat.
I would expect that a hireling would operate similarly. Can he hand stuff to your wizard outside of combat? Sure. But, during a fight, he's cowering someplace out of the way, and anything he's carrying is likely to be inaccessible to you until the fight is over.
Thank you for that link - that thread and interpretation clears it up 100% methinks.
The idea behind the porter was that it was a sort of Nidwick character that, as mentioned above, isn't even there at all during combat, but can carry back the heavy statue that the Str 8 Wizard needs to bring home to complete his faction mission, or who can lug around a second set of armor for the fighter who is worried his current suit will get sundered or who may want to switch to his other suit for a given encounter or adventure.
Fair enough. Let's clear up any ambiguity. The vanity NPCs are not available and not accessible during combat. As soon as the GM advises to roll initiative, then the vanity NPC fades into the background and is not available to help swap out equipment, serve as a meat shield, or any other benefit.
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*Trumpet/Fanfare*
Announcing Farak, the most Powerful Mage in All Absalom
*Trumpet/Fanfare*
Harold, My Herald comes with me everywhere. Despite having him for over half my Pathfinding career, I don't believe he has once accomplished anything useful. He does however understand the perfect emphasis to use when speaking my full name, and for that I keep him around.
My Porter is used to lug around messy things my fellow Pathfinders might find in our travels. When one makes sure to have the latest Absolonian fashions, one must also take care to avoid sullying them in the tombs and other unpleasant places Pathfinders tend to go.
My Chronicler has been my loyal companion the longest. He takes notes and writes up my chronicles for me after the adventures. He is an immense time saver. I don't know what I would do if forced to write the pages and pages of these reports myself the Decemvirate is always asking for. Every once in awhile he will even answer a question as to what's going on. Of course he's a bit pompous and refuses to answer more than one question at a time. Last time I tried I think he pointed out that I was the Greatest Mage in All Absalom not him. I did not speak with him for the rest of the week, but I believe we are again on amiable terms.
Fortunately as the Most Powerful Mage in All Absalom it is a trivial task for me to use my magical powers to keep them safe from harm. Not once have my followers been harmed. (Although they did flee from that Dragon)
I frequently forget about my followers, but they don't seem to mind too much, just being in my presence is good enough for them. Whenever I want them, they always seem to be on hand though. What more could one ask for?
