Just what the Subject says. If I cast a 7th level spell with a +8 ability modifier and I have Spell Focus & GSF do I have to let my opponent save vs. 27 or can I let them save vs. DC 10?
No, I don't believe you can.
That being said, they can voluntarily fail a save, if that's what you're going for.
Though it hasnt come up often, GM's i've played with have always allowed casters to lessen the effects of a spell on variables. Such as a 10th level caster casting a 1d6 fireball when he could do a 10D6. I should think same would go for saves.
It's basically "pulling a punch."
No, if he's wanting to let them save VS DC 10, he's trying to increase the chance that they will succeed, not auto-fail.
I don't see why a reasonable DM wouldn't say that you could expend a 7th spell slot and allow the target to just auto-save, though it'd be a house-rule.
EDIT: Ninja'd by the little caffeinated construct!
No, if he's wanting to let them save VS DC 10, he's trying to increase the chance that they will succeed, not auto-fail.
I don't see why a reasonable DM wouldn't say that you could expend a 7th spell slot and allow the target to just auto-save, though it'd be a house-rule.
EDIT: Ninja'd by the little caffeinated construct!
**Takes a little caffeniated bow.**
We've always played it as you can lower it to the minimum level possible to still cast the spell. So if it was a level 3 spell, your wizard could cast it as weakly as if he had CL 5 and Int 13 (for a DC of 14) if he wished.
You can certainly choose to not apply your feats if you don't want to.
You should never be able to cast a 1d6 fireball, though. You need to have it be at least 5d6 (if wizard) for it to be possible to use at all, as you need CL 5 to cast it.
You should never be able to cast a 1d6 fireball, though. You need to have it be at least 5d6 (if wizard) for it to be possible to use at all, as you need CL 5 to cast it.
I understand what you're saying about minimums and all that, but why could a 5th level wizard not "pull a punch" with his fireball and choose to only do 1d6 and lower the DC to whatever he wants, even if it's zero? I have no idea why someone would, but how is that harmful or game breaking?
I agree that we're totally in Houserules territory, but I'm curious about why one wouldn't allow making a spell less than.
I don't see why you couldn't reduce the DC but it would have to be uniform. For example, if you cast a Fireball and one of your party members got caught in it, then you could reduce the DC to make it easier for him to save but that would also reduce the DC for your opponents. You would probably be better off just letting your party member take the hit.
Right. If you lower it for the spell it's lower for all targets of said spell.
A fireball that hits an enemy and an ally have the same DC, maxed or minimized for both targets.
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Just what the Subject says. If I cast a 7th level spell with a +8 ability modifier and I have Spell Focus & GSF do I have to let my opponent save vs. 27 or can I let them save vs. DC 10?
There's nothing in the RAW that allows it, but it seems harmless as a houserule.
The big question is, why would you want to?
but I'm curious about why one wouldn't allow making a spell less than.
Because by the rules it is impossible for a wizard to ever cast fireball with less than CL 5 and a 13 int, as it is a level 3 spell?
Would you be alright with a cleric or druid making a wand of freedom of movement at CL 1 (cutting the cost to 1/7 the norm and making it "only" 10 minutes) by "holding off on the divine goodness a bit"?
(first example I could think of, you get the idea, yadda yadda slippery slope...)
Just what the Subject says. If I cast a 7th level spell with a +8 ability modifier and I have Spell Focus & GSF do I have to let my opponent save vs. 27 or can I let them save vs. DC 10?There's nothing in the RAW that allows it, but it seems harmless as a houserule.
The big question is, why would you want to?
Want to bring 'em in alive, don't have any disabling spells, don't have any nonlethal spels, but don't want to stand there waiting while the fighter smacks the guy around for nonlethal damage?
There's nothing in the RAW that allows it, but it seems harmless as a houserule.
The big question is, why would you want to?
I've been in situations where the PCs in the way have evasion, we know for a fact the NPC villain(s) do not, and they're difficult to land a touch spell or save against, but have been weakened to the point that a blast spell, even at half damage from a successful save, would likely finish them off.
Just one example I've encountered. Numerous times. When you don't care if the foe fails the save or not, but do care if your allies do, lowering the DC can be smart.
Certain spells still have nice effects when they save. For awhile, there was one that did worse things to creatures that successfully saved against it.
Just what the Subject says. If I cast a 7th level spell with a +8 ability modifier and I have Spell Focus & GSF do I have to let my opponent save vs. 27 or can I let them save vs. DC 10?There's nothing in the RAW that allows it, but it seems harmless as a houserule.
The big question is, why would you want to?
Interrogation, Intimidation for instance, or showing off your cool powers without harming people etc.
The biggest reason I could see to pull your punch like that would be to 'put on a show' for others. Or maybe to downplay your abilities.
'No, i'm NOT an epic wizard with a 30 int. i'm just an 'average' wizard with a 15...'
My group has allowed pulling punches down to the minimums.
Also, while most of the time people can fail saves. There are some cases (like a Superstitious raging barbarian) when the person can't choose to fail the save. Because of that, I would not allow a player to totally tank their DC's or effects.
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Just one example I've encountered. Numerous times. When you don't care if the foe fails the save or not, but do care if your allies do, lowering the DC can be smart.
Fair enough. It's never come up in my games. Usually if the PC in the area has evasion he has a high enough Reflex save to make it a moot point.
but I'm curious about why one wouldn't allow making a spell less than.Because by the rules it is impossible for a wizard to ever cast fireball with less than CL 5 and a 13 int, as it is a level 3 spell?
Would you be alright with a cleric or druid making a wand of freedom of movement at CL 1 (cutting the cost to 1/7 the norm and making it "only" 10 minutes) by "holding off on the divine goodness a bit"?
(first example I could think of, you get the idea, yadda yadda slippery slope...)
The caster level wouldnt change becasuse, as you mentioned, the lowest you can be to cast a fireball is CL5. However, I see no reason not to allow a 1d6 fireball with a DC of 1.
Just what the Subject says. If I cast a 7th level spell with a +8 ability modifier and I have Spell Focus & GSF do I have to let my opponent save vs. 27 or can I let them save vs. DC 10?There's nothing in the RAW that allows it, but it seems harmless as a houserule.
The big question is, why would you want to?
Here is why.
I built a wizard Shadowcaster archtype, specializes in Illusion(shadow).
I have the feat shadowcaster from the freeport companion. It allows shadow spells that do fractional damage on a successful disbelief save to add +5%/int bonus to the fractional damage. the 10th level ability of shadowcaster gives +20% bonus to fractional damage. so if I cast a 7th level Shadow evocation fireball if they make their will save they will take 100% damage with no reflex allowed save with a +8 Int mod.
so is the consensus that this will work? and I can Tank my DC's.
Only with DM approval. RAW does not support it.
Only with DM approval. RAW does not support it.
a fair assessment.
...so if I cast a 7th level Shadow evocation fireball if they make their will save they will take 100% damage with no reflex allowed save with a +8 Int mod.Why do you think they won’t get a reflex save?
From Shadow Evocation’s description: “Regardless of the result of the save to disbelieve, an affected creature is also allowed any save (or spell resistance) that the spell being simulated allows, but the save DC is set according to shadow evocation's level (5th) rather than the spell's normal level.”
that is my stupid brain, I was confusing 3.5 shadow evocation to 3.75