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If a rogue with the scout archetype should happen to gain the pounce ability (say kitsune rogue), and charges an enemy, is said enemy treated as flatfooted against all the attacks the scout makes or only the first one?
prototype00
I would have to double check but I believe its just one.
I take it back the once a round in only on the 8th level abiltiy so actully yes it seems you would get SA on each attack.
Ah, right so there has been no errata (similar to the pounce with lances and dire charge) saying that effects (like SA) only apply to the first attack?
prototype00
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It wouldn't be the same as the errata on the lance. That was momentum based damage. This is catching them off-guard, so it does not apply. I would say if you attained pounce somehow and used the rogue ability, they are off-guard through the whole action. I would say that would not have been in the original vision or intent, but nothing RAW stops it, Especially since the higher level ability is specifically limited. I personally would not allow it because of that.
It wouldn't be the same as the errata on the lance. That was momentum based damage. This is catching them off-guard, so it does not apply. I would say if you attained pounce somehow and used the rogue ability, they are off-guard through the whole action. I would say that would not have been in the original vision or intent, but nothing RAW stops it, Especially since the higher level ability is specifically limited. I personally would not allow it because of that.
So basically, RAW yes, but you wouldn't allow it personally because of the 8th level ability? (which IIRC keys off much easier than the 4th level ability, i.e. move 10ft vs charge an enemy)
The text of Scout's Charge implies that it is only a single attack, but that's because you can normally only get one attack at the end of a charge. Pounce allows a full attack at the end of a charge. Scout's Charge basically let's you get sneak attack at the end of a charge. Sneak attack applies to all attacks that meet specific conditions. The full attack at the end of this specific kind of charge meets those conditions. I would say the receiving end of this combo is screwed.
I don't think this relates to the other pounce/lance/mounted charge issue. If this were also somehow involved with a charging scout, you would only get that extra charging lance damage from the first attack of a full attack, while sneak attack would still apply to all of the attacks. You lose the momentum of the charge after the first attack, but sneak attack still makes sense since you can normally pull of sneak attacks with full attacks.
Says 'attack', not 'attacks'.
Personally no, I wouldn't allow it. The redundancy it causes the 8th level ability is rather noteworthy.
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It only says attacK because thats the basic assumption. Its not a hard and fast rule.
You can sneak attack an opponent as many times as you have attacks. If he's still flat footed then he gets sneak attacked for all the attacks. Whether you are pouncing, two weapon fighting, or making attacks against a flanked opponent is irrelevant.
A lion with levels in rogue would quickly become a killing machine, I know that for a fact. Pounce + several attacks + sneak attack = bad-ass.-James jacobs
A few things, first statistically sneak attack does the exact same damage on average as a fighter or barbarian can do without any weird mechanics.
So lvl 10 barbarian with pounce around a 28 str is doing 2d6+26 hasted with 3 attacks at around +20 to hit.
A lvl 10 scout who somehow gets pounce will.... be basically doing the same damage. The difference the scout will probably miss more of his attacks.
there is no reason to limit this ability.
Yes.. but don't you need to be lvl 14 or so for that?
Correct me if I am wrong but allowing pounce to grant multiple attacks with sneak attack through Scout's charge should not be inconsistent with Skirmish. (though there is some overlap)
Skirmish still applies in VERY important situations where Scout's Charge does not.....
1) not a straight line
2) rough terrain
3) uphill and other times when charging not allowed (i think uphill anyway)
4) slowed
5) fatigued/exhausted
6) when you don't want to be limited to "first available square" for attack purposes (i.e. flanking position)
I am sure there are others, but I figured I would point that out. This is a quick, off the top of my head, observation so please don't let me get away with a falsehood if there is one.
I am in favor of pounce and scout's charge here....my kobolds just got stronger (in my world Kobolds have 2 1d3 claws and a 1d4 bite).
over two years...
ha i know. I didn't even notice.
I had searched something related and this came up.
Didn't see 2012 until after i posted.
I dont regret it :)
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@OP -
Yes.
I have a buddy that something similar with a nat. weapon tengu scout/swordmaster. The swordmaster's ability isn't as good as pounce (need to beat target's CMD), but it's pretty sweet for a level 4 character to be able to charge and get 3 sneak attacks at full BAB. Though it only works consistently against squishy targets. (who rogues should focus on anyway)