Help needed for a Red Mantis Assassin build.

[Malkier1023]

Pretty much just the way it sounds. Basic build so far is Vanilla Fighter5/Rogue2( Rake or Chameleon)/Red Mantis Assassin3. Starting level is ten with a 25 point buy and standard wealth for level.

Focus is on being a skill monkey and twfing.Any advice is welcome including alternate builds as long as they end up in RMA and use twf. I will post my current build once I get back to my computer.

[Bigtuna]

Well I started at a NPC build at some point - there was meant to be a few againhst a lvl 12 party... - I'll post it. I didn't finish - so Don'¨t know if I got it all right... But you might find some you can use...

Fighter 1/Rogue 4/Red mantis 4

Feats: Lvl 1 (alertness) human (Exotic Weapon Proficiency ) fighter1 (Two-Weapon Fighting) Lvl 3 (Weapon Focus (sawtooth sabre) lvl 5 (Double slice), lvl 7 (Pack attack eller outflank if høj AC party, steep up) lvl 9 (twf, improved)

Skills: Intimidate 5 ranks, Perception 5 ranks, Stealth 5 ranks.

Altenative class – rogue
Poisoner +scout (need the 4 rogue for Scouts charge)

Rogue trick
Distracting attack
Bleeding attack – sneak does 3 bleed dam

Spells known: (suggestions)
Lvl 1(4)Expeditious Retreat, Enlarge Person, Vanish, Magic Weapon, obscuring mist, true strike
Lvl 2(1) Blur, Invisibility; Ghostly Disguise; Accelerate Poison; Alter Self; Bull's Strength; Levitate, Darkness

The idea was to make a sneaking encounter - someone charges - people start being flatfooted - party starts to bleed - the assasins turn inv an heal up/poison weapons - attack again...
Don'¨t know if it would usefull for a PC.

[Malkier1023]

Now that I'm back at the computer, here is the current build:

Human Female Fighter5/Rogue(Rake or Poisoner)2/Red Mantis Assassin3
25 Point Buy
Str 12
Dex 20 (16+2 Racial+1 at 4th and 8th)
Con 14
Int 14
Wis 10
Cha 13

Level Progression and Feats
1st Fighter- Alertness, ExWP(Sawtooth Sabre), TWF
2nd Fighter- WF(Sawtooth Sabre)
3rd Fighter- Weapon Finesse
4th Rogue-
5th Fighter- Two Weapon Feint, Combat Expertise
6th Rogue- Rogue Talent(Fast Stealth)
7th Fighter- Imp TWF,
8th RMA- Bonus Weapon Spec (Sawtooth Sabre)
9th RMA- Imp TW Feint
10th RMA-

Things I want this character to be able to do: Accomplished skill monkey focusing in Bluff, Acrobatics, Perception, Stealth, and possibly Intimidate if I go the Rake route, deal decent damage, have the highest AC she can since she may end up the only melee character in the group.

Any suggestions on equipment are welcome. Only thing I have on the list so far is this:
+1 Cold Iron Agile SS
+1 Adamantine Agile SS
Mantis Mask
Ring of Chameleon

[blackbloodtroll]

What about ranger 5? The ability to ignore the dex prerequisites will allow for higher strength and more damage.

[Malkier1023]

I have been considering Ranger, but I'd have to go Ranger 6 to pick up ITWF. I'd gain 2 favored enemies and access to Lead Blades which would be nice, but I'd lose Armor and Weapon Training. Armor training isn't a big deal, but weapon training + Dueling Gloves would mostly balance out the bonus from str. If I knew I wouldn't be the only front-liner I'd almost definitely go the Ranger route. The Fighter path just seems to be better for a more defensive build, but maybe I'm wrong there.

[blackbloodtroll]

Power attack will work better with the ranger build, and during those times you can only attack once, you can can two hand the sawtooth sabre.

[Ilmakis]

My proposal for a more fighter style RMA

Cleric of Achaekek [2] Human Fighter [3] (Weapon Master) Red Mantis Assassin [5]
25 Point Buy
Str 18 (15+2 Racial+1 at 4th)
Dex 16 (15+1 at 8th)
Con 12
Int 12
Wis 12
Cha 14

Hum1 Weapon Focus (sawtooth sabre)
Clc1 Exotic Weapon Proficiency (sawtooth sabre)
Lvl1 Alertness
Fgt1 Two Weapon Fighting
Lvl3 Iron Will / Improved Init
Fgt2 Quick Draw
Lvl5 Double Slice
Lvl7 Power Attack
Lvl9 Skill Focus (Perception)

Trait : Armor Expert, Magical Knack (Cleric)

Skills in Perception/Stealth/Intimidate/Acrobatics

Armor : Mithral Breastplate +X

The SS can't be used with Weapon finesse. It work as a light weapon only for the purpose of TWF

[Malkier1023]

Bigtuna wrote:

Spells known: (suggestions)

Lvl 1(4)Expeditious Retreat, Enlarge Person, Vanish, Magic Weapon, obscuring mist, true strike
Lvl 2(1) Blur, Invisibility; Ghostly Disguise; Accelerate Poison; Alter Self; Bull's Strength; Levitate, Darkness

Thanks for the spell suggestions. They'll help me save me some time later since I haven't even touched spell selection yet. Figured I'd do that when I knew how far into RMA I'd be.

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Power attack will work better with the ranger build, and during those times you can only attack once, you can can two hand the sawtooth sabre.

This is an even better point now that I know Weapon Finesse won't work.

Ilmakis wrote:

My proposal for a more fighter style RMA

Cleric of Achaekek [2] Human Fighter [3] (Weapon Master) Red Mantis Assassin [5]
25 Point Buy
Str 18 (15+2 Racial+1 at 4th)
Dex 16 (15+1 at 8th)
Con 12
Int 12
Wis 12
Cha 14

Hum1 Weapon Focus (sawtooth sabre)
Clc1 Exotic Weapon Proficiency (sawtooth sabre)
Lvl1 Alertness
Fgt1 Two Weapon Fighting
Lvl3 Iron Will / Improved Init
Fgt2 Quick Draw
Lvl5 Double Slice
Lvl7 Power Attack
Lvl9 Skill Focus (Perception)

Trait : Armor Expert, Magical Knack (Cleric)

Skills in Perception/Stealth/Intimidate/Acrobatics

Armor : Mithral Breastplate +X

The SS can't be used with Weapon finesse. It work as a light weapon only for the purpose of TWF

Why Cleric 2? Are you using an Archetype for the cleric levels that gets something useful at level 2? Otherwise I feel like a 1 level dip into the class will get me everything I need especially if I go Crusader and take Weapon Focus as my 1st level Bonus Feat. That would allow me to to knock out 4 feats at level one which might just have to happen... ;)

Also, did you only go Weapon Master to get Weapon Training sooner? Because that's pure genius. lol

[Ilmakis]

Yep Weapon Master is for getting WT sooner than 5th Fighter level.

I don't use any archetype but Crusader will be a very good idea for your level of Cleric.
If you don't take the 2d level of cleric, you can pick a 4th level of Fighter for more HP and an additionnal feat.

[blackbloodtroll]

Is human a must?

[Zolthux]

I don't think Human is, but being a TWF build, it's feat intensive, so human is preferred

[ShadowcatX]

I always favored Ranger 2 / Weapon Master 3 for access to favored enemy, high strength, and weapon training. (Alas, I would love to get a level of barbarian in the build, but it doesn't work. Stupid alignment restrictions. . .)

[blackbloodtroll]

Tengu are proficient with sawtooth sabres.

[Zolthux]

does that mean they have EWP for the purpose of meeting the prereqs?

[voska66]

I find the Ranger works best for the RMA, you don't need the high Dex for TWF. I went with Str based build for my RMA using the Ranger Guide. It's pretty nasty.

I have +19/+19/+14/+14 (1D8+14 19-20 x2 + 1D6) at 7Ranger/1RMA. Ranger Focus from the Guide Archetype with Weapon Specialization, strength bonus, Arcane strike and +1 swords makes for nice damage bonus.

[blackbloodtroll]

Zolthux wrote:

does that mean they have EWP for the purpose of meeting the prereqs?

Yes.

[Malkier1023]

voska66 wrote:

I find the Ranger works best for the RMA, you don't need the high Dex for TWF. I went with Str based build for my RMA using the Ranger Guide. It's pretty nasty.

I have +19/+19/+14/+14 (1D8+14 19-20 x2 + 1D6) at 7Ranger/1RMA. Ranger Focus from the Guide Archetype with Weapon Specialization, strength bonus, Arcane strike and +1 swords makes for nice damage bonus.

Would you be so kind as to put the build up for me so that I can see what feats you took and where? It'd probably help me out a lot. :)